Ah, forgot about this...the LR has a freewheel built into the jackshaft.
Direct Drive Genesis
- Thread starter skeetab5780
- Start date
Ah, forgot about this...the LR has a freewheel built into the jackshaft.
skeetab5780
1 MW
Finally got around to welding this darn motor bracket! I did what everyone told me not to do...which was buy a Harbor Freight POS welder. It took some getting used to but I got the little 80a DC inverter to weld a couple decent tacks and hold it in place enough to get a good test in. Also cut the dropouts on the DanGT swingarm since they were way too long for my chain tensioners, MAN was that metal tough to cut...good stuff! After all that I got the controller wired into the bike so really all I have to do is hook the battery to it and self learn the controller.
Wish me luck!
Neatening up the wires
Here you can see my beautiful tack welds
Shot of the other side
Mounted the controller also!
Cut the swingarm dropouts a tad shorter
You can see my sloppy tack weld on this side here!
Wish me luck!
Neatening up the wires
Here you can see my beautiful tack welds
Shot of the other side
Mounted the controller also!
Cut the swingarm dropouts a tad shorter
You can see my sloppy tack weld on this side here!
SlowCo
1 MW
Nice project.
But isn't the motor too far forward and won't it hit the frame when the suspension compresses completely? From the photo's it seems that the motorbracket should have been placed an inch closer to the tire for clearance with the frame.
But isn't the motor too far forward and won't it hit the frame when the suspension compresses completely? From the photo's it seems that the motorbracket should have been placed an inch closer to the tire for clearance with the frame.
skeetab5780
1 MW
No the suspension fully compresses. I thought this myself at first, I wanted to keep the option of going to a 26" tire if I needed to change the gearing later on.
One thing I did notice is that my motor bolts on the left side are stopping my crank arms from spinning by just a very small margin even with a FSA wider BB from sick bike parts. Good thing im not planning on pedaling. I will have to buy an even wider one!
One thing I did notice is that my motor bolts on the left side are stopping my crank arms from spinning by just a very small margin even with a FSA wider BB from sick bike parts. Good thing im not planning on pedaling. I will have to buy an even wider one!
SlowCo
1 MW
Good to hear about the suspension.
If it really are just the bolt heads that stick out and not also the motor housing or axle, you could grind the crank a little if it wouldn't weaken it too much or try to find and use counter sunk (not sure if this is the correct term) bolts that are long enough:
If it really are just the bolt heads that stick out and not also the motor housing or axle, you could grind the crank a little if it wouldn't weaken it too much or try to find and use counter sunk (not sure if this is the correct term) bolts that are long enough:
Structurally speaking, you could put a dent in the back of the seat-tube (if needed) without compromising the overall frame strength. It would still be plenty strong.
skeetab5780
1 MW
Actually I just sat on it and under full compression it does just barely hit the frame... I will wait to consider this an issue until I see if this motor gear ratio is even useful enough to consider. The motor seems loud, this is one of those self learning controllers where it automatically finds your phase combo and corrects it so no color coding at all...
I may decide to sack up an buy a Kelly mini controller for $200 but I hear they have throttle issues if you do not program them properly.
I may decide to sack up an buy a Kelly mini controller for $200 but I hear they have throttle issues if you do not program them properly.
skeetab5780
1 MW
Here is a video of the first power up! I was trying to figure out the self learning jumper, motor seems loud but its supposed to select the phase combo by itself...
https://plus.google.com/u/0/b/11422...6366561516435320226&oid=114220730764579508472
https://plus.google.com/u/0/b/11422...6366561516435320226&oid=114220730764579508472
SlowCo
1 MW
skeetab5780 said:
Full compression means sitting on the bike and riding through a hole thus bottoming out the shock completely. I.e. until the shock itself can't compress any further. As I wrote earlier it looks from the photo that the motor will hit the frame hard if you go through a pothole.
You can easily test how far it will compress by screwing down the threaded ring holding up the spring on the shock body completely to the bottom. The spring should not touch the top hat of the valve body when the hat slides down and rests on the shock / black rubber bump stop. In that position the motor should have a clearance to the frame of appr. 1/4" as the bump stop can also still compress a little when taking a big hit.
skeetab5780
1 MW
Ya good spot but like i said not a top priority right now its not that bad
skeetab5780
1 MW
Got a few minutes to take this thing out on a test ride with my 18650 8ah 15s battery in my backpack. It has a surprising amount of torque and I am glad I kept the ratio as high as I did. With only 15s I can tell I will get bored with the top speed though, I estimate 28mph. But I was happy with torque compared to the BHT at 20s 4:1
I think I am going to look in 20s again and also a more powerful controller. Otherwise I could put the smaller sprockets back on and keep the 15s with more amps?
What do you guys think?
I think I am going to look in 20s again and also a more powerful controller. Otherwise I could put the smaller sprockets back on and keep the 15s with more amps?
What do you guys think?
skeetab5780 said:
The motor is an inrunner which will shine at high RPM, so it will definitely be better using higher volts together with high reduction (to keep copper losses lower).
you than can always push it to the limits by increasing the amps, but it will perform alot better with high reduction together with 20s.
nutnspecial
10 MW
What battery and phase amps are you runnin man? 15-18s and 80/200a should feel pretty scary powerful geared for 30mph, or even 40mph for that matter.
I currently am running 16s and 80-100/200a geared more for 30mph and it's retains the fun and lowers the potential consequences of a crash. 40mph (on 20s) was awesome but there's extra weight in the battery AND more amps required for the same fun geared for 30mph.
Plus 30mph is more acceptable in any public areas I ride. I think my goals are towards an ever increasing 'bike like' ride, with no less power than I've experienced so far.
I'm saving the fast on-road stuff for my DOT legal motorcycle, and fast and hard offroad for a heavier better purposed dirtbike type ride. I have a frame capable of enough battery and more moto type wheels/tyres/susp, but I'm sure the bht would be underwhelming at that point, the cost would be high in battery, the weight would approach that of an ice dirtbike, and there's also increasingly less reason for the pedals. So that idea is on hold for the moment.
I agree 20s will outperform 16s when wattages and top speed are equal. I've been considering 20s for my new pack, and keeping 30mph, but the lipo pack will be heavier, bigger, and more costly. A custom 18650 pack would have an easier time tailoring the paralleled groups to balance wattage against weight as voltage is increased. I think an 18650 pack for 100a would also invariably have to carry more capacity (weight) than lipo to begin with though.
I currently am running 16s and 80-100/200a geared more for 30mph and it's retains the fun and lowers the potential consequences of a crash. 40mph (on 20s) was awesome but there's extra weight in the battery AND more amps required for the same fun geared for 30mph.
Plus 30mph is more acceptable in any public areas I ride. I think my goals are towards an ever increasing 'bike like' ride, with no less power than I've experienced so far.
I'm saving the fast on-road stuff for my DOT legal motorcycle, and fast and hard offroad for a heavier better purposed dirtbike type ride. I have a frame capable of enough battery and more moto type wheels/tyres/susp, but I'm sure the bht would be underwhelming at that point, the cost would be high in battery, the weight would approach that of an ice dirtbike, and there's also increasingly less reason for the pedals. So that idea is on hold for the moment.
I agree 20s will outperform 16s when wattages and top speed are equal. I've been considering 20s for my new pack, and keeping 30mph, but the lipo pack will be heavier, bigger, and more costly. A custom 18650 pack would have an easier time tailoring the paralleled groups to balance wattage against weight as voltage is increased. I think an 18650 pack for 100a would also invariably have to carry more capacity (weight) than lipo to begin with though.
skeetab5780
1 MW
Figured I would get my chain tensioner sorted out since they needed a slight modification to mount to this swingarm. Took the hacksaw to them for 10 minutes and they bolted in nicely, now the chain is nice and secure...for now
should probably work on back brakes soon
should probably work on back brakes soon
skeetab5780
1 MW
I need to put a watt meter on it but its 15s at only 35a so about 2000w is all it has right now.
I've been thinking about the Kelly mini 72v but its $200 bucks
I've been thinking about the Kelly mini 72v but its $200 bucks
skeetab5780
1 MW
Dug thru my tub O bike parts one last time to check for cranks that wont hit my motor and I finally found one! It just happens to be the original one from my first genesis build...I hate this thing BUT IT WORKS!
skeetab5780
1 MW
I took the plunge and bought the Kelly KBS 72v 55a Controller and a program cable! I cant wait to unleash some real power, hopefully the throttle programming isn't too hard to figure out.
skeetab5780
1 MW
Threw a watt meter on the bike and just like I though its only putting out 1700watts from this battery at 31a max, after I get my new controller I will need some higher power cells! maybe LIPO for this one
nutnspecial
10 MW
Oh yeah! You'll be verrry happy with some more juice- imo 2kw ain't doing it justice! Hopefully kelly throttle control will be smoother than standard xiechang speed throttles. They may be simple, but I know mine have always been 'lively' to put it lightly.
Yes, imo lipo is the way to go unless you want huge range (and weight, and size) to go along with the desired amps. 20s and 60a (~4.5kw) for 30mph will be ALOT of fun! I'd wait to gear it up, it's easy enough to do later.
Yes, imo lipo is the way to go unless you want huge range (and weight, and size) to go along with the desired amps. 20s and 60a (~4.5kw) for 30mph will be ALOT of fun! I'd wait to gear it up, it's easy enough to do later.
skeetab5780
1 MW
nutspecial said:
Yea I've been fully 18650 cells for the last 2 or 3 years but I also haven't had any really powerful bikes in a while either...I've been using a 12fet lyen 4110 the whole time, it gets you to 40mph club with a hub and 26" wheel, but I have to agree, the amount of power required to make this thing fun, there is not enough room for a decent 18650 pack. If I was to squeeze it in the frame it would weigh a lot and be sort of akward on this frame, especially if I step up to 20s again which I am planning already after buying the Kelly.
skeetab5780
1 MW
mademy said:
I originally bought these hubs from Stevil on this forum, he has a for sale thread on Voloci 17" moped wheel sets. I've bought about three sets so far...but he has been sold out for some time now.
I do actually have one complete 17" stainless steel moped wheel set left. Front/rear complete wheels with 17x2.5" Michelin Gazelle tires installed. I will sell for $175USD shipped, been planning to post them soon anyway
I also think Oset bikes sells a dual disc rear hub thru axle style, but if I remember correctly it is a decent amount wider than this hub.
nutnspecial
10 MW
That's a killer deal, just adding up materials and not counting labor.
For just the hub, I think Lightning Rods is creating a custom one for sale, and Bzhwindtaker also has one for his LMX bikes. By the time you build a wheel though . . . $
As far as the motor, if there are none on ebay currently, look through the 'bigblock alternative' thread to see a few rabbit holes. I'm also nearly certain Bzh keeps stock of a very similar version to the slower wound BHT. And LR is probably also soon about to stock a motor for his mid direct drive. . .
For just the hub, I think Lightning Rods is creating a custom one for sale, and Bzhwindtaker also has one for his LMX bikes. By the time you build a wheel though . . . $
As far as the motor, if there are none on ebay currently, look through the 'bigblock alternative' thread to see a few rabbit holes. I'm also nearly certain Bzh keeps stock of a very similar version to the slower wound BHT. And LR is probably also soon about to stock a motor for his mid direct drive. . .
skeetab5780
1 MW
Ya last time I bought two BHT motors from vendor they were around $209 each with shipping if I remember
The LR motor was way more money, so im not sure which is the better deal
I also had to have a machine shop do custom work to the BHT while the LR I was able to setup on my own, counting the machine shop cost they were about the same price.
The LR motor was way more money, so im not sure which is the better deal
I also had to have a machine shop do custom work to the BHT while the LR I was able to setup on my own, counting the machine shop cost they were about the same price.
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