Disaster today, almost set two fires with BBSHD and 52v batteries
- Thread starter ryan1685
- Start date
ryan1685 said:
That's one perspective. Another one would be the bike was working fine, and then didn't. The bike didn't break itself between those two conditions. It's an unreasonable expectation to think a DIY kit bike is idiot proof. It is a reasonable assumption with a factory ebike. Different demographics.
E-HP said:
Zing. Thanks for adding insult to injury buddy boyo . Ebikes are a means of transportation for me, not something I spurg out on and spend hours learning everything. Sorry I didn't fully internalize the wiring schematics. There is no reason for 52v to be traveling though the data cable at all times, even when the bike has not even been turned on. Seems like the engineers at bafang missed some things. Anyways, thanks for all the help.
ryan1685 said:
You seem to want to blame the equipment. You fried one battery, and then without even taking the 15 seconds to check if there was a direct short, you connected your old battery and fried it too. Seems you are not willing to do anything other than hook up wires and pray. Lots of folks here use the bafang kits. They are probably more careful putting the connectors together, then just jamming them together when the pins aren't lined up. I can't see that as being bafang's fault.
If I may ask, do you have a meter that you can test Volts and Ohms with? If not go to Walmart or Harbour Freight and get the cheapest one they carry (<$10). We really can't help you until you can tell us the symptoms. Before you do anything else, you need to find what caused the short. Owning and knowing how to use a multimeter is pretty much a requirement for owning a ebike. Doesn't matter if it is DIY or factory made.
P.S. Sonders bikes aren't especially known for their quality. IMHO they are just another Walmart/Chinese crap bike.
P.S. Sonders bikes aren't especially known for their quality. IMHO they are just another Walmart/Chinese crap bike.
E-HP said:
Ok man. I lined up the arrows, beyond that, that is all I can do. I assumed it was the new battery I bought seeing it was aliexpress and I was in desperate need to get to work. Sorry my thoughts were not in trouble shooting mode at that time. The disconnect is, I never knew 52v was going through the data cable at all times - regardless of if the power was on or not, now I know and will be more careful lining up the pins in the future. I have wired many houses and until you turn on a breaker, you can have reverse polarity on every outlet, and there will be no issue. I guess that is the difference between AC and DC power. Hopefully Bafang sends you a few stickers. Hold that BBSHD tight friendo
nicobie said:
I have removed the conrtoller and it smells like burning pretty bad. Pretty sure it is dead, unless a good controller is suppose to smell like burning electronic too ?
I only bought the Sondors because I wanted to try it the bafang ultra - was not willing to pay $1500 for a ultra ready frame from China . All the components are pretty good . Front shock is worth $600 alone. 1kw battery.
Plugging in a new controller won't do you any good if you don't know what caused the other one to fry and the connecters to melt. You need to find the short first unless you enjoy wasting $.
Having a sense of smell is not a substitute for a DMM and the ability to use it. :wink:
Having a sense of smell is not a substitute for a DMM and the ability to use it. :wink:
ryan1685 said:
Everybody that has a DIY ebike has or will make some sort of bone head move at some point. I've had my share. Hard lessons, but you just trouble shoot, fix the issue, and move on. You can't expect quality from cheap Chinese components, but we make the best of them. I think most folks have learned the lesson that if you don't test, you might as well flip a coin. Not many people can afford the latter after messing up once or twice.
ryan1685 said:
This has nothing to do with AC or DC power. A circuit breaker is a switch that physically opens contacts to interrupt the circuit. If you had a circuit breaker opened on your ebike, it would have functioned in the same way -- this is quite the opposite of your battery directly plugged in to the controller.
It seems quite unlikely that you have "wired many houses" (unless poorly?) and not noticed there is no circuit breaker between your battery and controller.
Reminds me of other outlandish claims today.
ryan1685 said:
Slow down. The connector with the bent (and presumably shorted) pin didn't burn up, and it surely has less current capacity than proper XT90 or Anderson PP power connectors, yet only the power connectors burned.
What is the mechanism by which a shorted pin in a data cable would cause power connectors to burn up? Until you can understand and answer this question, you should not proceed.
fatty said:
They all passed inspection . Sociopath central today . I was just making a comment, wrong analogy to be making surrounded by 400 IQ endless sphere users I guess. Wiring a house is a lot easier than dealing with direct current. lights and outlets on different circuits, unless there are a bunch of crazy 3 way switches and fancy crap, it is pretty easy. If you screw up on a circuit, chances are the breaker is going to pop and you can eventually source out the issue without huge sparks and fires like yesterday. Your response is low IQ if you do not understand the fail safes that exist in residential electrical. This was the only parallel i was trying to draw. With DC, there is no popped breaker .just spark and flames . Looks like this not the place to come for help see everyone's answer vary widely. The only thing that makes sense is the bent pin because it was the only thing that changed between when it worked and when it went nuts .
fatty said:
The first time the power discharge xt90 on the battery and xt90 on the xt90 to anderson adapter melted. On the second attempt - new adapter in place, the anderson on the bbshd controller and the adapter melted. but both xt90s ( male and female) were pristine. Second time it caught fire
ryan1685 said:
So you still haven't pulled out your DMM to see if there's a direct short and trace the wires? If you wired a house, the flipped the breaker on, and it immediately tripped, is your first instinct to replace the breaker? Most people would look for the short. Kid sticks a fork in an outlet and almost kills himself. Takes a special kind of kid to think, "hey let's try another fork". You want someone to feed you an answer, without doing any trouble shooting on your end.
E-HP said:
No, chances are there was something wrong with what I just did. You don't wire an entire house blindly that just turn on the power to the whole thing , you go circuit by circuit. I dont own a mm. Obviously your have never wired a car stereo or home stereo and had the amp pop. I guess you are such a chad , you never screw up. Everything right the first time.
Will have to buy one, even though it is pretty obvious what the issue is.
ryan1685 said:
Really? And what would that be? As fatty said, the pins suffered no damage. The XT-90 that handles 90Amps burned to a crisp. There's a direct short, and a lot of amps flowed through it. It might even be from how you soldered the connectors. The pin may have been part of the problem, but it didn't carry 90 A without leaving a trace. Get the DMM. It's even useful when wiring your house.
E-HP said:
All adapters were bought from luna cycle. I didn't solder anything. I will get the mm. I was riding the bike 5 minutes before this happened. I switched the battery when I got home which entailed unplugging everything. That is when I had the issue with the connector tried straightening the pins but failed without noticing . Plugged in the battery than boom. Only thing that changed was the bent pin. Having 3 pins bent onto each other must have closed some type of circuit that bypassed the power switch and caused it to ignight the second I plugged in the battery . Imo
ryan1685 said:
What changed was the battery. I know it sounds crazy, but it's not unheard of for a battery from aliexpress coming reverse wired for polarity. If you plugged it in then, it could have fried and created a direct short in your controller (based on your diagram, the battery wires go directly to the motor housing and controller).
The cable going to the display carries battery voltage for two reasons. To allow the display to show the battery level or voltage, and to turn the bike on and off. Even factory bikes work this way. It may or may not have played into the initial problem.
Once the controller was fried/shorted, plugging your old battery in would subject it to the same short, and poof.
This is just a theory, but easy to diagnose with even a $5 meter from Harbor Freight. You've provided good clear pictures, and decent information with respect to what happened, but I think to get to the bottom of the problem, you need a way to take measurements. That's the missing piece, and as much as it frustrates you, it frustrates folks trying to help as well.
E-HP said:
The alie express battery wasn't brand brand new, sorry super detail is not my expertise, did not think it was important. I had used it to do 2 ranges tests for about 300kms over the last week. I agree the controller must have fried the first time around, hence the reason why different things burned the second time around, when I plugged in the old battery. Power didn't get past the controller the second time around, hence why it burst in flames. Thanks, I will buy a mm tomorrow
I'm assuming you're an assistant and not licensed? It seems unlikely that you're a licensed electrician that 1) doesn't know these fundamentals and 2) refuses to learn them:ryan1685 said:
This has nothing to do with AC vs DC. An electrician must know of the existance of DC circuit breakers. They're often spec'd in ebike wiring diagrams, and would have saved your ebike.
Okay, but why didn't the bent data pin connector burn up and open the circuit? Why did the power connectors burn up instead? Without knowing this, you'll just kill more batteries/connectors you plug in.ryan1685 said:
MadRhino
100 GW
The first thing I would check is the XT90 to Anderson adapter, that could be shorted because the XT connectors are soldered with + and- wires very close together, or reversed because a stupid mistake installing Andersons housing colors can make you plugging them reversed polarity.
I don’t know about the display connector and how it could affect the current or polarity on the main power wires, but I find this a lesser probable cause.
I don’t know about the display connector and how it could affect the current or polarity on the main power wires, but I find this a lesser probable cause.
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