DIY Aptera knockoff?

[jmygann]

What was the wheel base and front trac on the Aptera ?? triangle measurements

 

[jmygann]

Official dimensions: 53" high x 91.0" wide x 173" long.

More specs from sheet:
111" wheelbase
80.5" front track.
0.15 Coef of drag
5" ground clearance
1500 lbs curb wt.

Electric motor torque: 60FtLb torque
110v 15A charge time: 8 hrs.
Battery output: 10-13 KWh battery pack.
Battery voltage: 336V DC Nominal Tractoon Voltage
Transmission: Gear box 10:1 ratio

http://aptera2e.org/aptera-2e-specs/

 

[jmygann]

Re: "Lithium Hawk"


Hi! I hired Kale Koteki in the US to build most of my frame. It was based on his design but I specified and supplied a Honda Goldwing swingarm and some of the dimensions. Kale is an excellent fabricator but does not have the mechanical engineering knowledge for a safe on-road design. He is brilliant and talented but you would need to provide most of the design detail. For example, the front end he built, the geometry was all wrong such as having a KPI of 22 degrees as opposed to the industry standard of 7 degrees. I ultimately had to build the front end myself as well as the primary drive system. I spent lots of money on this frame but had to rebuild maybe 60% of it. I used and would recommend Mustang II front end components. I would never try to have anyone build custom spindles and other critical front end components again. For me, I was assured these components were great. When the frame arrived I noticed the tolerances were way to sloppy and when I finally got the vehicle to the point where I could drive it, I found out how bad the front end and drive system were. So I rebuilt all of that. I am not trying to insult Kale. He is the best fabricator I have ever seen. It is just that automobile engineering needs to be done perfectly or else it is very dangerous. Few people are qualified. That is why using standard front end components is a wise choice. The engineering is all done.



Best of luck.



Nap Pepin



From: jim [mailto:jmygann@yahoo.com]
Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2011 6:41 PM
To: Nap@nappepin.com
Subject: sociable tadpole trike



This group is interested in a 2 seat side by side model.

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=34547

Any suggestions on a frame builder ??

 

[Harold in CR]

Why does using "car parts" make registration difficult

Over on the DIY car forum, I have read where several guys had a very hard time, even getting a converted car registered with State govt. Make ANY changes to the chassis, and, you may never get it registered. Just seems to me it might cause problems. Same as using a steering wheel, instead of handlebars. We all know how the Govt people like to show their "Authority".

I don't see where you have read about car parts being on the "Hawk" ?

He uses Motorcycle front wheels, and a Goldwing rear swingarm. States Hydraulic Brakes and equalizer. I have all those parts from the Kawasaki I bought as a basket case purchase, and that same type goldwing swingarm. ?

Maybe you guys in Aus don't have problems with registering mixed part vehicles.

I actually like that "Hawk" chassis.

EDIT:

I don't see where you have read about car parts being on the "Hawk" ?

OK. I see where the owner has reported he made changes using Mustang Auto front end.

 

[jmygann]

Official dimensions: 53" high x 91.0" wide x 173" long.

More specs from sheet:
111" wheelbase
80.5" front track.
0.15 Coef of drag
5" ground clearance
1500 lbs curb wt.

Electric motor torque: 60FtLb torque
110v 15A charge time: 8 hrs.
Battery output: 10-13 KWh battery pack.
Battery voltage: 336V DC Nominal Tractoon Voltage
Transmission: Gear box 10:1 ratio

VW front track for instance is 54.3 inches with

95.3 wheel base

 

[TylerDurden]

I don't see where you have read about car parts being on the "Hawk" ?

He is using Link & Kingpin steering.

The main problem with the steering is that the KPI (King Pin Inclination) is way to much at -20 degrees while the automotive standard is -7 to -9 degrees. Add to the fact I have handle bars and not a rack'n pinion, and the steering effort is simply not safe. Also, the design uses king pin blocks which severely limits the turning radius.

To resolve these issues, I have had to spend a lot more money to buy Mustang II spindles, GM calipers, rotors/hubs, upper and lower screw type ball joints, and upper, lower ball joint sleeves, chromaly hiem joints, tied rod ends and some raw materials to fabricate new upper and lower control arms.

 

[jmygann]

Front track 82"

 

[Hillhater]

Harold, from the Hawk blog..

June 20, 2011
I have completely rebuilt the front end of the Lithium Hawk to resolve the problems with the steering requiring too much effort and having poor turning radius. The result is dramatically improved steering. I used after market, Mustang II parts that included upper and lower screw-in ball joints, ball joint sleeves, Mustang II stock spindles, 11" rotors, GM calipers and brake pads, 17" X 7" alloy rims and low profile tires.

for a garage "self build" ( or even cheap multiple production ) lightweight chassis construction, you have to work hard to beat this composite system..
http://autospeed.com/cms/A_110989/article.html

 

[jmygann]

This a-arm kit is designed with 10 degrees of caster, 10 degrees of SAI ( king pin inclination ), develops a 3 degree progressive negative camber angle up to 24" wheel travel and 5 degrees of Ackerman angle for a rail with 106" wheel base and a front track width of 78" with spindle mount rims in the front. note the ackerman angle will change on builds with a longer or shorter wheel base and wider or narrower track width accordingly, approximately 1 - 3 degrees. Once aligned properly this kit is good for 0 - 24" of wheel travel with no bump steer! With a level chassis, proper alignment requires or is - 10 degrees of caster ( top of spindle leaning back towards the rear of the rail ), 0 - 1/2 degree of negative caster ( top of the wheel leaning in towards the center of the rail ) the same on both sides and 0 toe to 1/8" of toe in at full bump ( with shocks fully extended ). The cradle is 12 1/2" wide and 27" long ( length can be shortened down 2" ) and height can be cut down 2" as well. This kit has been designed to be welded on level with the chassis for beam conversions but if your looking for a front end with 5 or 10 degrees of rake on the chassis specify when ordering and allow 1 additional week before delivery.

 

[sk8norcal]

That "Lithium Hawk" build, is actually a purchased Chassis, from a guy in Michigan. It is a "Free to Caster" design, that would be great for the Aptera Clone. No matter, front-back seating, or, side X side seating, this looks to be the way to go. On the EV Album, he proposes to sell the chassis for " under $5000.00. That was in 2009.He shows his build, and, with Lead batteries and motor, it weighs under 600#.

I remember reading in a tilter thread, that it started out as a tilter and turned into a non-tilter...
no longer a "free to caster" design,
Kyle's site,
http://www.mikitev.com/
http://www.evalbum.com/2558

this guy Eric Cha also had a tilter frame made by Kyle Kotecki,
http://tiltingvehicles.blogspot.com/2010/07/sparc-xev-project.html
http://www.xenopi.com/?page_id=258



from lithiumHawk's page,

Contracted the basic frame out: I could not find a suitable frame to use but found a very talented fabricator named Kale Kotecki in the USA with the skills and equipment needed to build a strong and lightweight frame. I was responsible for determining the configuration (reverse trike tandem two seats), choosing the drive system, and determining key chassis dimensions. This took several months requiring a lot of research, part sourcing and purchasing. The front half of the frame was based on a single seat reverse trike frame the fabricator had built before. I needed to choose and purchase the rear end, the motor and controller, seats, brackets and harnesses during this stage. The rear end I chose was a new Honda Gold Wing GL1800 shaft drive and swing arm.

 

[salty9]

for a garage "self build" ( or even cheap multiple production ) lightweight chassis construction, you have to work hard to beat this composite system..
http://autospeed.com/cms/A_110989/article.html

Isn't this pleading to become a battery box?

 

[Harold in CR]

Y'all have experience with Buggys and other hot rod stuff, that I'm not familiar with.

I'm gonna sit back and wait for something definite to get decided. I'm more for bodywork and interior design for anything I may be able to be involved with.

 

[TylerDurden]

I like monocoques, but I imagine a tube frame will be easier for most builds.

 

[jmygann]

http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/290962610/3_Wheels_electric_car.html

Choice of motor and batteries

AC motor with Lithium ?
FWD
Max. speed: 100-120
Range: 180-200km
2 doors, 2 seats
8.5KW and 20KW

 

[salty9]

180km with lead acid doesn't seem likely.

 

[jmygann]

Aptera rear swing arm ... but I thought they then went to a FWD

 

[jmygann]

 

[bzhwindtalker]

Best way to start IMO would be to build a velomobile, then scale it up.

Fairing is coroplast, chassis mild steel. Thoses are cheap to make, fast, weatherproof, and really efficient. Mine was about 27kg (no motor).
I'm currently building a new one designed with electrification and coro fairing in mind from the start :

Oh, I also built that a while back:

I'm 100% in to share some ideas here and make it great

 

[jmygann]

Those are all single seaters ... try 2 side by side

 

[Hillhater]

.. and then figure out how to carry the drive system and battery's to give 60 mph and 100 mile range with 2 passengers ??
which is why a velo is not a viable starting point .
Best to learn from the... Aptera , Hawk, TREV, Switch, etc ...all of which have been through a design & development stage to avoid most of the many possible wasted efforts !

 

[AussieJester]

T-ReX make an electric version of their original ICE powered trike
Would love their ICE version you guys would likely go for their lecky
version, its two seater side by side...

^^ICE VErsion

^^^Lecy version...IIRC DoctorBass has sat in one of these, pics on ES somewhere too...


KiM

 

[Hillhater]

Hah ! AJ... i remember Tiff Nedel road testing that thing in the wet ! ..
.... mobile power shower comes to mind !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9TlxRD_pAmU
Any tadpole ( aptly named !) trike MUST be totally sealed for wet weather use, as the front wheels are very good at transferring puddles from the road... into the drivers lap !

 

[mistercrash]

I didn't know Campagna made an electric version of the T-Rex. Is there any documentation about it on the web because I couldn't find anything.

 

[jmygann]

http://green.autoblog.com/2007/02/08/need-a-three-wheeled-all-electric-speed-machine-it-s-yours-for/

 

[Hillhater]

I like monocoques, but I imagine a tube frame will be easier for most builds.

Only easier if you have the bending, welding, fabrication skills and equipment.
Not the lightest or strongest method either.
A traditional plywood build would be possible too , but modern composite board and fabrics make for a simple tough , lightweight "tub".