DIY Aptera knockoff?

jmygann said:
Reverse trikes have been designed and built for years ... some are electric.
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That must be why we see so many. :roll:

jmygann said:
We are not trying to re-invent the wheel. I feel a frame builder interested in the project is needed more than someone playing with CAD on their computer.
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Tell that to Greyb.org.

A new common platform is required, like the VW pan from the kitcar era; but this era needs an open-source hybrid/EV platform. With a simple design, framebuilders worldwide can supply the base.

BTW... The Aptera was a four season vehicle, not an electric dune buggy.
 
I quite like the switch, it ticks my boxes, but mainly because I'll need a central driving position as I currently live in a right hand drive country but would switch to left and most likely back and forth in my future. Also 3 seats is enough I think.

How many kwh's of lithium do you think the front battery box would hold?
 
The Switch appears to be a very nicely engineered package , but....
.. It would need an enclosed bodywork to meet "everyday" practicality and reasonable aero efficiency to improve power usage .
Maybe that is an oportunity to "personalise" the vehicles, but i suspect many builders would want the option of shop made bodywork. Have Switch planned that option ?
Also, unless the chassis are available at a sensible price ( shipping may be expensive also ?) , its design using many compound curved tubes would make it an impractical self build project for the average home garage builder,
A simpler chassis design / construction would be needed to make it workable for most amateur builders.
 
Hillhater said:
jmygann said:
What do you see as a budget for this "knockoff". It is a tadpole trike for 2 - side by side.. "" Aptera" type vehicle "
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you cannot attempt to estimate a budget until you have a fairly detailed specification including speed, range, payload expectations etc.
If you start with a budget, you will end up with a vehicle that meets your budget , ..not to your requirements.
... Project basics 101 !
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Speed - 30 mph
Range 50 miles

2 passengers (preferable side by side)- 360 lbs

tadpole style

Rolling frame only , 2000 watt motor to be supplied

Curb Weight ... 280 lbs without batteries
 
jmygann said:
Speed - 30 mph
Range 50 miles

2 passengers (preferable side by side)- 360 lbs

tadpole style

Rolling frame only , 2000 watt motor to be supplied

Curb Weight ... 280 lbs without batteries
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That's a golfcart with a missing wheel.
 
jmygann said:
Speed - 30 mph
Range 50 miles

2 passengers (preferable side by side)- 360 lbs

tadpole style

Rolling frame only , 2000 watt motor to be supplied

Curb Weight ... 280 lbs without batteries
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Hmm ? ....those may be you requirements, but i dont think that would replicate what the Aptera was, ..or what many others would expect from a daily driver EV.
Personally , i would want more than 30 mph and a 50 mile range, but even at 30 mph, i doubt 2kw would do it for a vehicle with a gross weight of 750+ lbs !
 
Howdy all! Been a while since I've posted here - real life keeps interfering.... :cry:

Anyway, I've started playing again with trike designs, and I saw this thread. Here's one of my recent ones, one that should be readily adaptable for full enclosure.

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Still needs quite a bit of refinement, but I'm so far liking where it's going......

.
 
A 2 passenger electric tadpole trike (tandem )
side by side is considered "sociable"

certified, insured, registered and licensed as of August 9, 2011.

http://www.nappepin.com/LithiumHawk.htm

IMG_1716004.jpg


img10.jpg
 
michaelplogue said:
Howdy all! Been a while since I've posted here - real life keeps interfering.... :cry:

Anyway, I've started playing again with trike designs, and I saw this thread. Here's one of my recent ones, one that should be readily adaptable for full enclosure.

b118d414.jpg



Still needs quite a bit of refinement, but I'm so far liking where it's going......

.
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Need to keep weight inside triangle to prevent roll over

figure1.gif
 
I have a Twike designed in the mid 90's. It weights 520lbs with 112lbs of battery (and no driver or passengers). It is made from aircraft aluminum and plastic. Not as fancy as the Aptera but highly efficient for a commuter vehicle. I have some pictures that were taken at the factory in Switzerland in 1998 where it was assembled. The pictures show the vehicle without the body and show the design more clearly.

http://public.fotki.com/webfootguy/electric-vehicle/twikeswissfactory1998/
 
jmygann said:
Need to keep weight inside triangle to prevent roll over

 
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Good point.  However, any side-by-side passenger arrangement makes this pretty much impossible - unless the people are sitting directly on toP of the front wheels (like how the Trimuter is designed).  You have to take into account whatever front suspension you use, as this takes up space.

In this particular design, I'm using a stock VW Beetle front end axle.  So, with a side-by-side system, you simply cannot move the passengers any more forward without their feet interfering with the wheel wells.  Even a short double A-arm suspension is going to take a good amount of space - unless you want a significantly wider wheel-base. This is certainly doable. However, I'm trying to design something using as much stock mechanics as possible. Designing a suspension system can be a bitch to engineer correctly. :wink:

On the other hand, if you go with a tandem setup then you end up lengthening the vehicle (or raising the position of the passenger as in the post above, effectively raising the COG) - and you end up with similar instability problems.  Unless of course you go with a tilter - which adds significantly to the complexity.

So it's a catch-22 situation.
 
Michael, have you messed at all with a leaning reverse trike/moto set up ??
 
Harold in CR said:
Michael, have you messed at all with a leaning reverse trike/moto set up ??
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Actually, I have. Been playing with several different scenarios of powered-type tilting mechanisms. I'll ultimately post my results as soon as I've played out any ideas that I've come up with and run some virtual simulations. The trick would be to be to find servos or stepper motors that ar powerful and fast enough to get the job done. Right now, I'm just trying to work out the optimal mechanics. One thing I don't know is how much tilt is really needed. Some systems I've worked out are good for a 30 degree tilt (from vertical), whereas others are good for around 20 degrees. I guess it all depends on the ultimate speed and turning radius. I would think for a standard commuting vehicle, 20 degrees ought to be enough, but I just don't know at this stage.

I think I've also come up with a good tilt/steering 'wheel' system. I'd like to use a computerized system to determine tilt based on inertia sensors, but everything I've read seems to point that that would be a very complex system, and prone to error when faced with 'bad things' such as side skidding. So I'm thinking of manual input for the tilt and steer at the same time - just as you would use instinctively when riding a bike or motorcycle. It's a bit 'sci-fi' and not at all like any traditional hand steering system. I'm still mulling the mechanics, but I think it's doable.

I'll eventually post in a new thread once I come up with some viable theories.
 
"Conclusion

Although Jetrike MkII is a FWD tilting delta trike, I am switching to a tadpole configuration for my next design. The reason for this is that the forward CoG only provides a narrow tilt range with a small margin for error. Additionally when the trike is stationary it can only tilt a little bit before the trike tips over."

http://jetrike.com/tadpole-or-delta.html
 
jmygann said:
A 2 passenger electric tadpole trike (tandem )
side by side is considered "sociable"

certified, insured, registered and licensed as of August 9, 2011.

http://www.nappepin.com/LithiumHawk.htm

IMG_1716004.jpg


img10.jpg
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So cool, I'd love to be able to build that. I can't wait to see how the bodywork ends up!
 
Welcome back, Michael. :D

I am imagining a mechanical system that limits tilt based on wheel speed using simple centrifugal flyweights.
 
That "Lithium Hawk" build, is actually a purchased Chassis, from a guy in Michigan. It is a "Free to Caster" design, that would be great for the Aptera Clone. No matter, front-back seating, or, side X side seating, this looks to be the way to go. On the EV Album, he proposes to sell the chassis for " under $5000.00. That was in 2009.He shows his build, and, with Lead batteries and motor, it weighs under 600#.
 
Harold,
i think you may be confusing the "Lithium Hawk" with his previous "Bug E" build which was based on a bought out chassis.
The Hawk is a scratch built design. ( but he did sub out the fabrication of his chassis design to a pro welder) ..
...and is not yet a finished project ( last blog entry Nov 2011)
 
Since this thread is about building an Aptera knockoff, I just want to say that Aptera isn't a tilting trike and I think that a tilting vehicle would be very different from the Aptera. I think that Aptera was smart to have small front wheels that are outside of the body, to make the trike more stable. You might not be able to use stock steering and suspension components for this, though.
 
Fizzit. I agree. However, IF an Aptera Clone ever gets built, you have to have some changes in the design, to avoid legal issues.

Some guys are talking VW front axles, which are CAR parts. This means difficult to get road legal, unlike the Aptera, which WAS an enclosed Motorcycle.

If I ever get to build mt idea, I want to have the steering connected to the handlebars, so, I could activate a pin to lock the leaning system in the upright position. The MOPT down here, would freak out to find this thing self steering, when you go to inspection.

Hillhater, maybe I misread the info on the "Hawk", but, in that grey section, I'm reading about the "Hawk" build, and, he talks about farming out the chassis, and, he did some small mods ??? No importa, EH ??? :) :)
 
I would think, especially if one wanted the side X side seating. Could that be an option ?? I have not read about or seen a side X side leaner ??
 
Harold in CR said:
Some guys are talking VW front axles, which are CAR parts. This means difficult to get road legal, unlike the Aptera, which WAS an enclosed Motorcycle.
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Why does using "car parts" make registration difficult ? .. where do you draw the line on "Car parts" ?.. brakes, hubs, electricals, ??
The Switch clearly uses a VW front end assembly, and the Hawk used many car suspension parts.
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Harold in CR said:
I have not read about or seen a side X side leaner ??
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Nor I. It could be a challenge.

On one hand, a SxS might be perceived to be more like a car, whereas a tandem might be perceived to be like a motorcycle. In either case, leaning certainly would be a departure from the conventional concept of "car".
 
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