Downtube-Cyclone 1200 Build

[archer-ca]

Hey All!

Join me on my virgin voyage to converting my first Ebike project. I'm a total Noob to this so after much reading and some PM's with a few fine and helpful folks here on ES, I pulled the trigger and bought a Cyclone kit.

First, we start off with my customized Downtube FS9 folding Bike. She rolls on 20" wheels I hand built with Disk hubs.

Fully suspended with a Carbon Fiber front shock and a dampened rear shock (way better than the spring and bumper suspension setup Downtube originally specs)

So with that I went and ordered a big kit from Paco at Cyclone. I wrestled for a few weeks over motor sizes and after much debate I ordered the 1200 watt kit for my first venture into Ebikes. Insane torque? Yes please!!!

After one week from placing the order I received my Cyclone kit. The box was nice and neat, in great condition. I'm always afraid of overseas shipping as they can take a brutal beating at times. Not this package. Paco had packed everything with great care and all arrived safe and sound. Along with my motor I even received a free tool kit to help with the conversion, like the Crank puller and Chainbreaker. Thanks Paco!! Oh, and did I mention that in my haste I forgot to order a set of cooling fins? Paco threw those in for free too!!!

After unwrapping all the bits and bobs I have all this!

After carefully inspecting each component I start to tinker a bit. During one of many emails with Paco we decided to try to mount the 1200 watt motor in the small triangle of the Downtube (DT).

Unfortunately with the mount it won't fit all the way. I would either have to cut a notch into the seatube or grind down a corner of the motor. Now, what would you folks do if given that choice? Grind the motor or notch the seatpost tube? :? Grind the motor or notch the seatpost tube? :? Grind the motor or notch the seatpost tube?

While I'm debating that I will simply mount it the regular way, outside of the triangle first. This way I will have it up and running for the rest of the riding season then monkey wrench it into the small triangle over the winter time.

Stay tune for more as I progress bit by bit. Waiting on some connectors and my Ping battery, due this week!!! Woooohooooo!

And any comments or advise will be deeply appreciated!!

Cheers,

Norman

 

[ElementX]

I'm looking forward to the results! I have a 9FS also, and been kicking around ideas on how I would mount the motor.

I may attempt to mount mine in the typical Cyclone location, behind the BB. Since the 9FS doesn't have the usual rear frame triangles, I was thinking I could use 2 clamps on the bottom end of the seat post tube. That would allow me to bolt on the cyclone motor bracket, however the motor would adjust backwards, instead of downwards. A chain tensioner would solve that problem.

I was thinking of using this type of clamp...remove the ubolt and use 2 of the brackets back to back so that I can use straight bolts and nuts to mount to the seat post tube. Having flat mounting surfaces on both ends of the clamps allows the motor bracket to attach one one side, and another bracket ala torque arm to attach the other side to the Downtube "foot" thing that helps the bike stand up when folded.

 

[JEB]

I just completed a install of a 500w 24volt Cyclone kit on the angle down tube by the front wheel. installed a amp meter- first ride pulsed to over 30amps which rotated the motor mount on the tube to which caused the motor drive sprocket (whole assembly) to be at a angle to the crank sprocket.

Added 3 1/2~ inch 7/16?~ od tubing on both sides of the motor mounting bracket and the bike tube- inside the 2 mounting bolts to keep the whole thing from rotating.

I would add a amp meter/or watts up- real easy to use more amps than you thought.

The motor does not appear to be any larger than the 500w unit that I have. ( but 500w has a internal controller, + no cooling fins)

Someone else had a Cyclone kit that he ate the gears in a short time, had white type grease in the gear box, the one I looked inside had a grey Moly D. looking type grease. Wow 1200 watts, shure hope the gears will live.

The free wheel on the crank sprocket only had oil in it (not much), made a cup/cone, piston plunger assembly to force bearing grease into the bearing area (100% fill). A friend only would get a few hours of bearing life (one time only minutes, it bound up) untill he greased the new ones before using them. We are not talking about White Ind. freewheels.

Jim

 

[archer-ca]

Hey All!

That's a good idea with the U-Bolt clamp ElementX but will it give enough surface friction to remain steady and not shift around? I heard these motors can torque themselves lose easily if not cranked down hard.

JEB, thanks for the tip on the freewheel bearings. Gonna give it some grease injection later on. Oil ain't gonna cut it considering what loads it will take on.

So since getting laid off from work I find I haven't a whole lot of time time to tinker on the DT-Cyclone these days. Busy hustling for employment programs to get a new job. But a guys gotta relax a bit here and there so here's my current progress.

Setting up with the brakes and throttle. Had to cut off the curved tip of my bull horns to fit the Cyclone throttle unit. This pushed my brake leaver a little further back. No probs.

Side view of the setup....not to shabby...

here's a POV of the setup....what to do with that controller cable?

Peek-A-Boo!! Decided to go internal routing. Had to pop of the connector to thread the cable thru the exit hole in the handlebar.

BUT I DIDN'T MAKE NOTE OF THE COLOR WIRE SEQUENCE PRIOR !!! DOOOH!

After a quick email with Paco he sent me a line illustration of the wire sequence.

Back in business....

To be continued....

Cheers,

Norman

 

[ElementX]

Nice work so far! I may want to upgrade my handlebar now after seeing yours, however I would probably put my throttle on the left so that the cable can be routed easier, and I can put my shifter back on the right side.

For the u-bolt clamps, my plan is to use 4 of them. Remove all the ubolts and put 2 clamps back to back so that instead of having a half clamp with a ubolt, you now have a full circle clamp that will be held together with normal straight nuts and bolts. Do the same with the remaining 2 clamps and now you have 2 full circle clamps that will both slide onto the bottom of the seat tube. This gives you more clamp surface area. Space them appropriately and drill new holes in the cyclone bracket for mounting. It will probably need a chain tensioner added since you'll only be able to adjust the motor towards the rear instead of vertically as originally intended. So one end of the bolts is attached to the cyclone bracket, the other end (other side of the clamps) can be used to attach to the "folded bike foot" thingy that hangs under the BB. The full clamps and extra support should keep the motor from twisting out of place.

I think the bolts that come with the cyclone kit are 5/16", so to keep to some sort of standard, I would use 5/16" clamps which would probably come with 1/2" or 3/4" brackets. The bottom of the seat post tube has probably about 3" protruding, so there's enough to work with.

 

[boostjuice]

All Cyclone product - And most fasteners out of Taiwan actually - are Metric standard. Not Imperial.

 

[MitchJi]

Hi,

I just completed a install of a 500w 24volt Cyclone kit on the angle down tube by the front wheel. installed a amp meter- first ride pulsed to over 30amps which rotated the motor mount on the tube to which caused the motor drive sprocket (whole assembly) to be at a angle to the crank sprocket.

Added 3 1/2~ inch 7/16?~ od tubing on both sides of the motor mounting bracket and the bike tube- inside the 2 mounting bolts to keep the whole thing from rotating.

Mind posting a picture or two of the additional tubing?

The free wheel on the crank sprocket only had oil in it (not much), made a cup/cone, piston plunger assembly to force bearing grease into the bearing area (100% fill). A friend only would get a few hours of bearing life (one time only minutes, it bound up) untill he greased the new ones before using them. We are not talking about White Ind. freewheels.

Jim

Wouldn't just installing a White (sealed bearings) be a better idea (currently sold out but it looks like they plan on restocking)?
http://sickbikeparts.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21&products_id=62

Sold Out - Heavy Duty Front Freewheel - $64.95

Super heavy duty front freewheel made exclusively for Sick Bike Parts by White Industries.

Leaders in the industry for hiqh quality bicycle components. Not only are these freewheels durable but are also serviceable.

Made in the U.S.A. Six month replacement warranty

 

[glv]

Looking good so far, keep us posted!

I wonder if you wouldn't be better served by a thumb throttle, though. You can get them from ebikes.ca for about US$15 + shipping. I haven't wired mine up yet (it appears to be set up for left-handed operation and that's not really what I want) but it shouldn't be too bad.

I second Mitch's suggestion on the freewheel. The ENO from sickbikeparts.com is not too expensive and perfectly drops in place of the unsealed Dicta freewheel cyclone provides. The hardest part is unthreading your crank from the old freewheel and that's really not that difficult. After you swap it out it's pretty much maintenance-free. The only bad thing I've read is that there is only a single bearing so it's not as strong while freewheeling as a double-bearing unit. I'm not sure where to find those anyway (tensile?)

 

[archer-ca]

Nice work so far! I may want to upgrade my handlebar now after seeing yours, however I would probably put my throttle on the left so that the cable can be routed easier, and I can put my shifter back on the right side.

A word of caution! I've been torturing myself with modifications to fit the the MTB shifter/brakes to the bull horns. Turns out the shifter /brakes fit a 22mm dia. handlebar. The bull horns are 24mm. If you can get bull horns at 22mm dia. your laughing. Meanwhile I'm going back to straight bars now... I'll probably cut them down a few inches though...

Soooooo, guess who got a honking big package in the mail??? Yuppers!! My Ping battery showed up finally! After watching the postal tracking for 2 weeks unchanged I finally received it.

And I have to say the packing is fantastic. Ping certainly knows how to pack a 20 lbs battery for shipping across the world. The box arrived with some battle scarring but totally intact. Multi layers of wrapping and cardboard provided a tough exterior.

A well fitted foam box inside kept the battery nice and cozy. That and the charger too.

So the plan? I have an Axiom Rear Seatpost Rack rated for 30 lbs. I enforced my seatpost with an internal shim to support the rear rack. And on this rack I'll be securing a small little suitcase containing my Ping Battery. I'll be able to bring along my charger and some bits and bobs.

to be continued....

Norman

 

[archer-ca]

Sooooooooooooo,it's been a while as I am scouring the net for alternative career choices and stuff. Researching as much as possible to figure out what I can do aside from being an exhibit designer.

Anyhoo, lets get to the good stuff. Since my last update? I DID IT!! JUST TODAY I TOOK THE DT-CYCLONE OUT FOR HER VERY FIRST POWER RUN!!!! WOOOOHOOOOO!!

Ok, lets start with the final build. Lined up the motor mounts and secured them. I drilled and tapped holes for theh front grubs screws for the big motor mount. Couldn't get into doing drilling and tapping holes into the other side as the small triangle was too small. The front grubs will do to prevent the motor from torquing and twisting. ( I hope)

Then adding a small shim to the bottom bracket to set the chainwheels out a wee bit more for a better chain alignment. Installed my heavy duty KMC chain (and it looks monsterous) and hooked up the tension wheel.

Setup my Ping battery with some Anderson Powerpoles (THANKS GLV FOR THE HELP!!) and was pleasantly surprised that when plugging in the power I did not hear any arcing. I was all 'fraid of hearing the electric "crack" noise. Neat-O!! I tied down the battery to my Axiom Rear Seatpost rack. Nice and secure it won't go nowhere.

Got my Battery all charged up, balanced and ready to rip, thanks to Ping for his tireless efforts to respond to each and every question I had about the first charging of my battery. THANKS PING!!!

The controller? Another strap secures it to the frame by the seatpost. Git 'er done!

Ok, so this afternoon was the moment. This is to be the big show, the fruits of my labour of putting it all together. I was all nervous and ran around the condo back and forth getting stuff I had missed for the first ride.

Finally got to ground level out into the wonderful summer day. There was a nice warm breeze and the sun was full out. A beautiful day for my first electric bike ride. Took one more pic before the ride. Who knows? This coulda been my last picture before some freak mess up.

28-44T combo I topped out at around 42 km/h. The torque is 'fierce' !! I started off slowly then throttled up. But I can feel the instant response and the whining of the motor and chatter of the chain drive was totally awesome. I zipped thru the neighborhoods residential streets away from traffic for a bit. I was grinning from ear to ear. Eyes were watering from pure joy and wind from speeds of 40km and up.

Turned out my front brake wasn't really setup properly but only found out after I finished the ride. Its solid now. 8)

So I rode around the area for about 45 minutes, doing some WOT here and there to hit my highest of 48.9 km/h I only upshifted two gears .

Man, it was Nukkin' Futz!!! The best ride I had on this DT folder. Can't wait till I get another chance to ride.

Now here's the big downer.....

Turns out the superintendant in our condo building caught me taking my bike up in the elevator and reminded me its against the condo rules. He a really nice guy and all, gives me use of his workshop and we get along well. So I have to figure where I can store the bike for whenever I can ride. Living in Condos is not for us bike enthusiasts. So now I cannot take my bike when ever I want. Such an anti-climatic ending to and otherwise awesome ride. Totally bummed, dudes and dudettes....

So there's my Downtube Ebike build. There will be additional refinements later, such as putting my battery in a nice protective case and managing all the wires neatly. I'll update with pics as they come along.

Thanks again to all the great folks that have helped me along the way. Special thanks to Kentlim that influence me and guided me with my build. Most appreciated Brother!

Thanks for watching and Keep yer Shiny Side Up folks!!

Norman

 

[John in CR]

Against the rules??? It looks like your bike would stand nicely on its rear for elevator use, so grocery shopping bags would take up more elevator space than your bike. Work to get the rule changed instead of readily accepting it. And/or do a bike build that you can RIDE up and down the stairs.

One quick question, how is shifting with the derailleur while on the move? I'm starting a build with a standard derailleur for changing gears, and I haven't seen a lot of feedback regarding how that works while in motion.

John

 

[gogo]

Get a zip up bag for inside. They probably are mainly concerned about tire dirt.

 

[archer-ca]

Against the rules??? It looks like your bike would stand nicely on its rear for elevator use, so grocery shopping bags would take up more elevator space than your bike. Work to get the rule changed instead of readily accepting it. And/or do a bike build that you can RIDE up and down the stairs.

One quick question, how is shifting with the derailleur while on the move? I'm starting a build with a standard derailleur for changing gears, and I haven't seen a lot of feedback regarding how that works while in motion.

John

Hey John.

Yeah, I normally would have argued it but since the super and I have a good relationship I don't want to give him a hard time.
The rule was put in place because of the accumulative damages to hallways and elevators form kids hauling thier bikes thru the building. As an owner these damages will come out of our monthly maintenance. I'll store my beast at the inlaws up the street for now.

As far as shifting don't do it under full power. I would shift, pedal to get the chain onto the selected gear then throttle on. As I got use to the throttle I could use the motor to gently shift.

If all goes well I want to build a downhill/freestyle ebike. Lots of suspension travel. Stairs? What stairs Maybe next year.

Cheers,

Norman

 

[glv]

Way to go, dude! That little folder is probably a bit of a thrill ride with all that power

One quick question, how is shifting with the derailleur while on the move? I'm starting a build with a standard derailleur for changing gears, and I haven't seen a lot of feedback regarding how that works while in motion.

It's fun to do at full power, but the driveline will not last long. This was the result the last time I shifted at full power and the gear didn't catch right away:

I agree with Norman: lift off the throttle a bit when shifting. You just need the motor spinning the chain a bit but not too much that the rear freewheel is actually engaged. Well, it can be engaged a little, but you get the idea.

There seems to be a sweet spot where this motor is making the most of the Amps you're throwing at it. If you have a CA then try to find the RPM range where it's drawing about 50A @ WOT. It seems to be between 50-75% of the max motor speed (wish I had a tach). Any slower than that and those Amps are mostly just turning into heat, any faster and the torque drops off pretty quickly.

 

[alswiseowl]

hi there
for your first build you did very well,maybe found a new career path.building ebeast's lol
any vids of it in action would be tops....of coarse you did it safely.
once again nice buid

 

[bluehead]

How do you manage to keep both wheels on the ground with all that torque and most of the weight over the back wheel?

Awesome build.

 

[archer-ca]

How do you manage to keep both wheels on the ground with all that torque and most of the weight over the back wheel?

Awesome build.

Hey Bluehead!

Thanks for diggin' the "Orange Flash". 8) She can be a bit of a hand full if you really twist that throttle open from a dead stand still. With 20 lbs of battery on the rear rack sitting high it's not much of a trick to wheelie it up and over. So far I've only start the throttle from a rolling start. And I try to bring the throttle on slowly. I'm still 'shaking' her down, making sure all my nuts and bolts are on tight and that parts are breaking in nicely.
But while on a roll I do throw the throttle open to feel the pull of the motor. I do this while leaning forward, tucked into the wind.

Working on getting POV video done up.

Cheers,

Norman

 

[mwkeefer]

Nice build man!

Some more info on the Downtube FS9 would be nice, especially the upgraded bits you have...

What type of fork and where did u get it?

What are you using for the upgraded dampened rear suspension?

Not that it matters with 20lbs of ping and 1200 watts of cyclone but... do you know the curb weight before conversion (after upgrades)?

I'm asking because I am plannign on getting a new 2009.5 FS9 on tuesday from downtube in Bensalem, PA for conversion (not cyclone, hub first then direct drive RC motor) and those are the items which seemed most in need of upgrade (besides the obvious disc brakes which if I am not mistaken I can adapt my GoPed ESR 750 EX MadDog disc to fit the front). Any info on the actual bike would be awesome... How is the folding with the eBike parts? Is it still foldable?

One last question... that 20lbs ping battery... what is the AH/Hot V of the pack?

Thanks in advance for the info and again, great build (bright and shiny too...).

Maybe you should consider building custom eBikes for a living... one movie prop to fame and fortune = )

-Mike

 

[archer-ca]

What type of fork and where did u get it?

What are you using for the upgraded dampened rear suspension?

Not that it matters with 20lbs of ping and 1200 watts of cyclone but... do you know the curb weight before conversion (after upgrades)?

Any info on the actual bike would be awesome... How is the folding with the eBike parts? Is it still foldable?

One last question... that 20lbs ping battery... what is the AH/Hot V of the pack?

-Mike

Hi ya Mike!

Thanks for the kind words. Yeah, it would be a dream if I could build Ebikes for a comfortable living. As soon as I get back to working I might do a few more conversions for sale.

The Shock is a Veltochnik 20" suspension fork I found off the 'Bay. Specs are here http://www.hpvelotechnik.com/produkte/federgabeln/meks_carbon_ac_e.html Its a sweet ride with this shock.

The rear shock was also off the 'Bay however its a tad larger than the original. It sorta throws the geometry off a bit but not being a serious cyclist I don't care. Not sure what brand it is but it does a nice job. If your looking for one try to get one thats 100mm centre to centre of mounting bolts. And if you find one that has dampening make sure you PM on it! my current rear shock is 150mm.

My bike took on quite abit of weight after the mods. From a svelte 20 lbs all the way up to 65lbs or so. It handles differently as you can imagine. I've since upgraded my front disk from a 160 to a 203mm (8" Dia.) disk for more stopping power. BIG DIFFERENCE!

My folding bike started life of the China assembly line as a "Downtube FS9" 20" folder. I ordered it directly from Downtube at http://www.downtube.com/Full_Suspension_Folding_Bike.html $350 for a decent folding bike fully suspended? Fer Shure!! it folds down decent with a folding steering stem but it still sorta bulky. Now with 40lbs of added junk its far from compact. You can still fold it a bit but I cannot slide the seat down or fold the steering stem. Rear rack had me bolt down the seatpost for security and the front suspension fork does allow for me to reuse the folding stem post. no big deal as I wasn't so much for compact storage than blazing the open roads at top speed.

The Ping battery is awesome! Have not done any range tests yet as i don't have to much opportunity to get out on the bike. As far as I know the battery is a 48v 20ah 3C discharge. Dunno if that answers you question about the battery. I'm still noobish to the battery/electronics stuff.

Hope that answers you questions.

Cheers!

Norman

 

[mwkeefer]

Thanks for the heads up and response...

I am proud to announce I too am now the owner of a 2009.5 9FS from downtube.com - actually I purchased mine from Downtube in Bensalem, PA. - You twisted my arm (or inspired me to twist my thumb depending on perspective).

A few observations:

Shortening the steering tube (the extension part) by 3" allows for a much more compact fold, a straight bar with two finger brake levers - ( mad dog style from a doner GoPed ESR 750 ex) and a slightly straightened head tube will allow the bars to fold much tighter to the frame also).

-Mike
*edited - I will start my own 9FS hub build thread so as to not junk up your thread, left the few tech bits about the 9FS... sorry = )_