dual drives

[dannyboyohyeah]

Wishing to hear from those who've experimented with mulitple dual-drive systems.....looking for max efficiency in range, but torquey enough to handle occasional hills of 15% (with peddle). I'm beginning to understand that smaller motors sip less energy, and I can go to single motor for the flats (unless that's less efficient). I wish to stay with simple hub motors as I don't want to have to deal with chronic chain problems. If I combine a geared motor on rear, and something like the 9c fronthub, can they be reliably mated to a single dual drive controller like the one clyte makes? Operating seperate motors on seperate throttles seems sort've dangerous to me. What other options are there here? Do you think the BMC V1 400 w would be a good mate for the bafang or 9c front hub? I'll probably start off with just the rear geared motor and add front hub as finances allow....but wish for smooth transition, upgrade. Any ideas and experiences???....am I headed the right way? I've discovered through my peddling of late that speeds above 30mph is not really important compared to range. Thanks everyone. Dan V

 

[dumbass]

Wishing to hear from those who've experimented with mulitple dual-drive systems.....looking for max efficiency in range, but torquey enough to handle occasional hills of 15% (with peddle). I'm beginning to understand that smaller motors sip less energy, and I can go to single motor for the flats (unless that's less efficient). I wish to stay with simple hub motors as I don't want to have to deal with chronic chain problems.

I am 62 and been riding bicycles since I was 6 and ebiking for the past 3 years (all chain driven). The worst thing that ever happened with my chain is when I was a kid I would get my pant's leg in it. I have had one peel off from tim to time but the motor had nothing to do with that. And of the thousands of miles i have ridden I have never changed a chain or sprocket due to wear. So I think your worries about chain driven motors is unfounded. It allows exactly what you are looking for. Higher speed on flats with smaller motor/motors and higher torque on hills. Assuming of course that you are driving through your gearset. And just like hub motors they can be linked through one throttle. I am setting up my bike right now using 2 direct drive 450w motors. the real problem with chain motors is they are noiser they hubs and they can be more difficult to install. Remember a hub motor with all it's good points has it's bad point as well. From what i remember if your using 2 and only powering 1 the dead motor doesn't like freewheeling and adds drag like a lightly depressed brake.

 

[dannyboyohyeah]

thanks for relating your experiences with chain-drive motors. I've heard quite varying accounts. (but never had one). The principle makes great sense...that range of gears. Could you tell me what kind've motors you've used?....and some specs on range/speed/battery requirements? I have a steel framed bike and so could braze on mounts, but feel further investigation is in order. So...you are going to dual hub-motors now? What is your purpose/goal? What road conditions are you dealing with? Thanks a bunch. Dan V.

 

[dumbass]

thanks for relating your experiences with chain-drive motors. I've heard quite varying accounts. (but never had one). The principle makes great sense...that range of gears. Could you tell me what kind've motors you've used?....and some specs on range/speed/battery requirements? I have a steel framed bike and so could braze on mounts, but feel further investigation is in order. So...you are going to dual hub-motors now? What is your purpose/goal? What road conditions are you dealing with? Thanks a bunch. Dan V.

I started ebiking in early '08. My wife and I had a matching set (M & F) Wallie World bikes that we really weren't using much. So I bought 2 Cyclone 360w 24v kits from Cyclone USA. I also bought my first set of packs (SLA 24v 18ah from them). These motors mount behind the crank sprocket. You actually remove the kickstand and use the area for the motor. You also replace your crank sprocket with a new 44t single sprocket with a freewheel plus peddle arms and a special crank arm shaft. This is all supplied in the kit along with the brake handles. Actually everything you need to get started except the batteries are in the kit. You only need to add (purchase) 6 or 8 new links to lengthen the chain. the chain must be leghtened because it now has to weave through the motor sprocket on the return side (bottom). With this setup you can peddle without running the motor or run the motor without peddling or do both or just coast if you like. This is all possible because your crank and the motor have freewheels. You will maintain your rear wheel cluster and you r crank and motor will now be driving it using the same (original) chain.

Remember that your range is dependent on how and where you ride. In my case I road in forest preserves. To get to the FP I had to ride a short 2 miles each way on the roadway. I road the roadway as fast as I could peddle with motor assist. Speed would depend if I was on flats, up hill or down hill so it veried between 20mph and 28mph. While in the forest preserve I generally road at 12 to 15mph. The FP ride was 16.5 miles round trip. So if you consider just distance it about 20.5 miles. But I was peddling most of the time. But I'm 62yo so I would think you can peddle stronger then me. This was '08 and I think I averaged about .5AHs per mile. So with 1 SAL pack it was pretty well pooped when I got home (so was I). So I added a second SLA pack. 26 pounds per pack...holly crap!1 I mounted them to my top bar. I have pics if you like. I now use about 1/3ah per mile.

I don't use the Wallie World bike and Cyclone motors much anymore. Last summer I bought 2 EZips (wife & I). They have 450w 24v motors. On my wife's we are using the stock SLA 24v 10ah pack. On mine I mounted 2 24v 20ah lifepo4 packs. They are mounted on the rear tire rack where the original packs were mounted. The motor on EZip bikes are chain drive but do not drive through the gear system. Therefore, not much different then a hub motor. But the complete bike, motor and pack (conplete and ready to ride out of the box) is only $240 when I bought them. On my bike I am currently relocating the motor to the "V" and adding a second motor. So I will have 2 450w motors. By the way last year I was riding 24 miles on 1 lifepo4 pack with no problems and it was still going. With my new setup both motors will drive through my Nuvinci hub. I plan to use different sprocket sizes on each of the motors. This will allow me to state with one motor and charge to the highter geared motor when riding the roadway. If extreamly high torque is need (say starting while going up hill) I will actually be able to power up both motors. I can then turn one off when needed.

FYI, My Wallie World without before adding the motor kit was 40 lbs. With motor and 2 SLA packs it's 100lbs. even. The EZip bike is 55lbs with motor plus 30 lbs for 2 lifepo4 packs, 5 lbs for the Nuvinci and 6lbs for the second motor. Total 96lbs.......and my fat ass is 220lbs. So those poor tires are holding up a total of 316 pounds. I also was getting 24 mils from the EZip in the original configuration wit ha single lifepo4 pack. The max speed on this bike was geared to only 16mph. My new setup should get 30mph +.

 

[dannyboyohyeah]

Thanks dumbass...lol (great handle)
This has been helpful educationally. I looked up the ezip 450w to study it, but there were no close-ups of the geardrive. I assume the 44tooth is a sprocket on other side of rear hub. I see that it's a brushed motor (which requires constant peddling), but for such an energy miser, I am sure it's worth it. And besides, I plan to pedal constantly as well,,,,it's just a matter of how vigorously, up those hills. My knee has a problem that won't go away....so, little torque there but I'm alright on the relative flats.
I'd love to see just how it is you're going to configure that second motor~~! In the same chain loop as the first? How's that? And you can turn one OFF? Amazing. Did the folks at ebikes help you with all this?
And I understand that this motor setup has no throttle...it's just called "pedal-assist"....how are you going to reconfigure with the second one?
After you get your modification done, I'd really like to see the photos of it all....before and after if you would care to. Thanks so much.
Online...seems Walmart still sells it for $349, but another site seemed to have the same thing for $499. Now that is a bargain to get you down the road, that's for sure. The reviews were quite mixed. Glad to see that at 62, yer still eager, willing, and wanting MORE. Hehe. Dan

 

[dumbass]

Thanks dumbass...lol (great handle)
This has been helpful educationally. I looked up the ezip 450w to study it, but there were no close-ups of the geardrive. I assume the 44tooth is a sprocket on other side of rear hub. I see that it's a brushed motor (which requires constant peddling), but for such an energy miser, I am sure it's worth it. And besides, I plan to pedal constantly as well,,,,it's just a matter of how vigorously, up those hills. My knee has a problem that won't go away....so, little torque there but I'm alright on the relative flats.
I'd love to see just how it is you're going to configure that second motor~~! In the same chain loop as the first? How's that? And you can turn one OFF? Amazing. Did the folks at ebikes help you with all this?
And I understand that this motor setup has no throttle...it's just called "pedal-assist"....how are you going to reconfigure with the second one?
After you get your modification done, I'd really like to see the photos of it all....before and after if you would care to. Thanks so much.
Online...seems Walmart still sells it for $349, but another site seemed to have the same thing for $499. Now that is a bargain to get you down the road, that's for sure. The reviews were quite mixed. Glad to see that at 62, yer still eager, willing, and wanting MORE. Hehe. Dan

Dan, Your confused.....please note I was talking about 2 different setups (WalMart bike with a Cyclone motor kit & EZip). The Cyclone kit drives through the same chain. Let me know and I can send you some pics. Then there is the Ezip that is a seperat chain on the left side of the bike and does not use the gear set at all so it is a fixed gear ratio. I am converting the EZip to drive through the gear system with 2 motors. On a stock Ezip the peddle system is exactly the same on any other bike except the crank sprocket is a single sprocket instead of the usual 3 sprockets that few people really use anyway.

The type of motor .. brushed or brushless has nothing to do with weather you peddle or not. In my conversion of the EZip I could use the crank (peddle) chain the same as the Cyclone kit. But I feel 2 motors (900w as rated which is actually around 2000w under heavy load) is safer to have it's own chain. Another thing is all multi speed bike crank chains a light duty. In this case 3/32" x 1/2". I prefer to run the motor on a slightly heavier 1/8" x 1/2" chain. This allows the peddle power to be seperated from the motor power thereby, minimizing the chanch of over loading the chain.

If you look around there are a lot of deals (Amozon hade them for $299 with free shipping for a while). But a lot of times the "SALE" bukes are last years model. This doesn't mean a thing because they haven't changed them at all (maybe in the color). However, there is a small problem with buying a NEW last years bike.....The batteries are generally unusable. So if you buy on of these bikes you just call Currie as soon as you get it and tell them the batteries with not except a charge. They will send you a new set FREE but they will ask you to pay shipping (about $20) but tell them no it's a new bike and that's not right. They will then pay the shipping for you. Currie has a great warranty (6 months on bike and 3 months on batteries).

I will start taking pics of my conversion as I go. But honestly I don't think this is something you want to try an do on your own. however, you could tackle a dual motor conversion wit hboth motors in the oniginal location. You can also do a conversion for higher speed....16mph normal can be increased to 20 + mph.

 

[dumbass]

thanks for relating your experiences with chain-drive motors. I've heard quite varying accounts. (but never had one). The principle makes great sense...that range of gears. Could you tell me what kind've motors you've used?....and some specs on range/speed/battery requirements? I have a steel framed bike and so could braze on mounts, but feel further investigation is in order. So...you are going to dual hub-motors now? What is your purpose/goal? What road conditions are you dealing with? Thanks a bunch. Dan V.

Here's the Cyclone site http://www.cyclone-usa.com/ Note on the front page they show a motor kit mounted to a bike. Below that pic you will see the complete kit.
This is how you install this kits. If you don't feel comfortable doing something like this then "kit motors" of any kind may not be a good idea for you and you should stick to a ready made setup like an Ezip or other ready made kit bike. I only push EZip because they are a fair bike and low cost for someone starting out. Below I gave you a site with IZip bikes for $200 + shipping. The IZip can be a little better bike in some ways. I also attached ES posting of 2 motor setups on EZip bikes. There are a ton of this type of conversions on this forum just use the search. But remember the standard bike will do prettry well for you. The bigest problem is the batteries are not very stron and have short distance. that is why a lot of people change to lifepo4 packs of something else to gain power and distance. Like all gear drived motors they have a bit of noise to them. Sone guys really get turned off by them. But to me it's not a big deal.

http://www.gasbike.net/izip_electric_bikes_izip_bikes_izip_hybrid_bikes.html

http://www.ecoforumz.com/electric-bicycle-scooter/131678-299-izips-4-models-available.html

http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4936&start=30

 

[Bill Snow]

dumbass

I have a Izip kit that I installed on a bike. About 15mph is what I get and a fairly short range. I like the idea of the Lifepo4 batteries but hear they have a lot of problems. You seem to be having good luck, where did you purchase the batteries?

You also mention 20 mph can be reached. What can be done to improve and reach the 20 mph?

Interesting, I like what you are doing.

Bill

 

[AussieJester]

+1 for non hub motors too...If dont like the noise of a chain, use a belt, whisper quiet... :wink:

I like the idea of the Lifepo4 batteries but hear they have a lot of problems.

Ok I'll bite...what problems Bill?



KiM

 

[dumbass]

dumbass

I have a Izip kit that I installed on a bike. About 15mph is what I get and a fairly short range. I like the idea of the Lifepo4 batteries but hear they have a lot of problems. You seem to be having good luck, where did you purchase the batteries?

You also mention 20 mph can be reached. What can be done to improve and reach the 20 mph?

Interesting, I like what you are doing.

Bill

Bill, I only have about 50 to 100 cycles on my first lifepo4 pack and the second I bought just before winter so it only has 2 or 2 cycles on it. But do far they work great and I am not currently using a low voltage cutoff or a BMS for charging. In fact I am using the stock Currie SLA barrery charger. this has worked great for me so far but I am not saying it is a good idea for everyone because I do not run my packs hard. But I do get 20 to 25 miles out of one pack and my speed ranges between 12 and 16mph. I bought the packs from Elite Power solution. This is the exact batteries I have. As you can see they come as a 12v pack (4 individual 3.2v cells inside). I remove them from the silver plastic case and install 8 cells into my home made case. My home made case can then be carried in the bike rack just like the original SLA Currie pack is. Except the lifepo4 pack is slightly larger but it weighs slightly less but a lot more power. Here's the site http://elitepowersolutions.com/products/product_info.php?cPath=16&products_id=74 Please note they also sell these packs with a "smart charger" .. I do not recommend this charger it is "PURE CRAP" and will over charge the batteries.

You can change the freewheel sprocket on the axle. Currently it is 20t x 1/2" pitch x 1/8" wide. Some people have replaced it with a 16t. For some it was very easy and for others it was a problem. But the end results is an increase in speed to 20mph. However, you also loss lower end torque. Speed and torque is always a trade off. If you want more infor on this let me know and I'll find the site info for you. I don't remember but it maybe on this site.

 

[dumbass]

+1 for non hub motors too...If dont like the noise of a chain, use a belt, whisper quiet... :wink:

I like the idea of the Lifepo4 batteries but hear they have a lot of problems.

Ok I'll bite...what problems Bill?



KiM

I agree with you but for the most part the noise doesn't bother me. But I would like to calm the noise a little bit. Remember on my setup I am adding an extra chain from the original Currie setup. And it already had 2 chains so I will have 3. I actually did look into using belts but there are several problems with them. The firat being you have to have a split frame so you can install a belt. A chain can be broken for installation but a belt can't be. Second is finding a pully to fit my sprocket size requirements. Now you have to mate these pullies to freewheels. I have a milling machine and lathe in my workshop but this would be a little to much even fro me to tackle. But I think I will make a big impact in the noise when I'm finished.

By the way most of the noise is from the gearbox not the chain. In the case on my Cyclone kits they used the same chain as the peddles. So if it was a chain noise it shouldn't have changed but it sure did. The gearbox isn't sealed so they only put a heavy grease in it. Within a few miles the greased comes off the contact point of the grea teeth and it here comes the noise. Putting in more grease really doesn'r solve the problem for very long. And after a few time of adding grease it will push it's way into the motor through the bearings. So it's not an easy fix but I have ideas. Wish me luck!!

 

[dannyboyohyeah]

Let's get back to the original intention of this thread. My thoughts were inspired by a video clip I saw, titled, Moto-bob & other e-trailers. "Jack created a dual hub-drive with crystalyte motors, which he claimed nearly doubled his commute range to 80km, because the motors working together eliminated the heavy draw on his 48v dbl packs during acceleration to the "sweet-spot". Other likely benefits are elimination of overheating, increased motor-life, and an existant "back-up" in the event of a motor failure. Also, these motors were driven synchronis by the available "dual-drive crystalyte controller". One throttle, one brain. (seems remarkably safe). This is the sort've set-up that....if truely that much more efficient, seems to be worth whatever extra expenses might be involved. I believe his motors were the crystalyte 408 or 409, but not quite sure. Using dual bafang, Puma, Aotema or similar motors, which are priced well below my favored BMC 600w (my planned choice of motors, if I go with single drive)....well....it could be pretty amazing. But I am a newbie....I could be talking out've my *****.
A neatly packaged deal especially seems to be related to the one, reliable controller that is not problematic running two motors. Any thoughts on this???? By the way...thanks guys, for your insights and corrections to my misconceptions....I've looked over those links.

 

[AussieJester]

I actually did look into using belts but there are several problems with them. The firat being you have to have a split frame so you can install a belt.

The very reason more motorcycles dont use belt drives IMO... My first two e-trikes had chain drives the
latest crusier a belt setup, I have to say i will never go back to a chain on an ebike. Yes they are more
difficult to setup and on some bikes even impossible, i would strongly urge you to use the mill and lathe to make
whats needed though dumbass, i too am not phased by noise but the lack of it with the belt means iget to hear my sweet sweet RC outrunner singz to me at full noise

KiM

p.s belts dont stretch or require cleaning/oiling either there efficiency is less than a few % lower than chains to

 

[dumbass]

Let's get back to the original intention of this thread. My thoughts were inspired by a video clip I saw, titled, Moto-bob & other e-trailers. "Jack created a dual hub-drive with crystalyte motors, which he claimed nearly doubled his commute range to 80km, because the motors working together eliminated the heavy draw on his 48v dbl packs during acceleration to the "sweet-spot". Other likely benefits are elimination of overheating, increased motor-life, and an existant "back-up" in the event of a motor failure. Also, these motors were driven synchronis by the available "dual-drive crystalyte controller". One throttle, one brain. (seems remarkably safe). This is the sort've set-up that....if truely that much more efficient, seems to be worth whatever extra expenses might be involved. I believe his motors were the crystalyte 408 or 409, but not quite sure. Using dual bafang, Puma, Aotema or similar motors, which are priced well below my favored BMC 600w (my planned choice of motors, if I go with single drive)....well....it could be pretty amazing. But I am a newbie....I could be talking out've my *****.
A neatly packaged deal especially seems to be related to the one, reliable controller that is not problematic running two motors. Any thoughts on this???? By the way...thanks guys, for your insights and corrections to my misconceptions....I've looked over those links.

Sorry if you feel your posting was intentionally hijacked but it wasn't. In your original post you say "Wishing to hear from those who've experimented with mulitple dual-drive systems.....looking for max efficiency in range, but torquey enough to handle occasional hills of 15% (with peddle). I'm beginning to understand that smaller motors sip less energy, and I can go to single motor for the flats (unless that's less efficient)." So I was simply trying to point out that there are several ways to acomplish your goal. As as indicate that many people share in your thinking. In doing so in is equally important to point out the possible down falls of different methods to acheave this goal. And I don't think anyone would argue that a hub motor can not compete with a properly installed and greaed non-hub motor. But it is important to recognize the down falls and advantages of both systems.

Please allow me to point out that while I have never had the "dual-drive crystalyte controller" I personally think it's a great idea but very over priced. You can accomplish the same thing with dual controllers and a single throttle. Once again adding the the flexability and redundancy of the system. If your worried about having a second motor to insure agaainst falure the controller is as likely or more likely to fail then the motor as is the throttle. But it's easy to carry a spare throttle.

 

[dumbass]

I actually did look into using belts but there are several problems with them. The firat being you have to have a split frame so you can install a belt.

The very reason more motorcycles dont use belt drives IMO... My first two e-trikes had chain drives the
latest crusier a belt setup, I have to say i will never go back to a chain on an ebike. Yes they are more
difficult to setup and on some bikes even impossible, i would strongly urge you to use the mill and lathe to make
whats needed though dumbass, i too am not phased by noise but the lack of it with the belt means iget to hear my sweet sweet RC outrunner singz to me at full noise

KiM

p.s belts dont stretch or require cleaning/oiling either there efficiency is less than a few % lower than chains to

Yes I agree with everything you've said. And maybe someday I will give it a shot but first I just want to get everything back together and running again. Then maybe I will relook at it for a complete or limited belt drive. But as I pointed out the chains are not the noisest part of the syatem....but it would be cool to go belt drive.

 

[Bill Snow]

dumbass

Thanks for the information, I'll put it use.

Free wheel sprocket: Yes, when you have time I would like to know where to purchase the higher speed sprocket. The area around here is all flat.

Lifepo4 battery problems: Having never owned one I can only refer to what I have heard from dealers and what I have read. One dealer would receive a shipment and only two or three out of the shipment were good and the rest failed, others have wrote that the BMS was the weak part that often failed. However, I now learn many others are having very good luck with these batteries depending on where they were purchased. That is why I was interest in where you purchased yours.

Long range: Do not mean to detract from the main theme of this posting. I to am interested in long range and have asked many questions on this form. I am in the process of putting together a Whizwheel Terra electric trike using a mid drive system. Using a mid drive on a ICE motorized recumbent worked out excellent. Doing the same thing with the trike and hope it will work as well. Batteries are still a challenge and that is one reason your battery comments drew my attention. The Izip is another bike that I am using to learn on.

 

[dumbass]

dumbass

Thanks for the information, I'll put it use.

Free wheel sprocket: Yes, when you have time I would like to know where to purchase the higher speed sprocket. The area around here is all flat.

OK, here's a link to another site where the guy changed out his 20t freewheel for a 16t freewheel. I think it gives good detail but read the whole thread because some have had problems doing the change. So be sure your up to it before you pull everytrhing apart. As for where to get the freewheel you can Google "left hand freewheel" or they are sometimes sold on Ebay. But be sure it is a left hand and if you can find one with smooth sides like the Ditca brand usually is it would be easier to install. A freewheel removal tool will help too. http://www.ecoforumz.com/electric-bicycle-scooter/80982-20mph-ezip-24-volt-oem-pack.html In the future I may have a simpler way of increasing the speed. But it will not be for a few months before I can test my idea out. But if it works it will increase the top speed above 23mph on flat ground.

Lifepo4 battery problems: Having never owned one I can only refer to what I have heard from dealers and what I have read. One dealer would receive a shipment and only two or three out of the shipment were good and the rest failed, others have wrote that the BMS was the weak part that often failed. However, I now learn many others are having very good luck with these batteries depending on where they were purchased. That is why I was interest in where you purchased yours.

Most problems with lifepo4 batteries are mostly from poor suppliers. So if or when you buy just go to a quality supplier and you will likely not have a problem.

 

[AussieJester]

Lifepo4 battery problems: Having never owned one I can only refer to what I have heard from dealers and what I have read. One dealer would receive a shipment and only two or three out of the shipment were good and the rest failed, others have wrote that the BMS was the weak part that often failed. However, I now learn many others are having very good luck with these batteries depending on where they were purchased. That is why I was interest in where you purchased yours.

The majority of failures you hear about are the not so cheap 'duct tape' Lifep04 setups with cheapo BMS and even cheaper chargers, Even the 'Ping' duct tape packs have history here of failures and supposedly Pings are superior to all the other duct tape packs... if you buy decent quality you will be very unlucky to have any issues Bill...You will pay a little more, but as the saying goes, you get what you pay for..... Look into Headways or the new A123 prismatic cells when you want to ditch the lead acid matey you will never look back, its night and day difference.

KiM

 

[Bill Snow]

Thanks dumbass ( what made you come up with a name like that, you don't sound dumb at all )

Making notes of your information. Years ago I put together an electric bike using a Currie 24v system. up graded to a custom made externial controller and a 36v system. Worked pretty good, speed was 21-22 mph and good range. BUT, it was a real lead sled with two sets of 36v batteries in the saddle bags and a the time I lived in a area with lots of hills. Even with heatsinks and other things for cooling the heat got to it. Went to ICE bikes for many years and now going to try the electric idea again, maybe I can do better with all the new ideas and better equipment.

Batteries: I have been looking into Ping, headway and others. I think Aussie pointed out Headway in the past and they do look pretty good. I want to be careful here, they are not cheap for sure. I checked out a quality hub motor system who say they have had no problems at all with there lifepo4 36v 10ah battery pack. BUT!, they want $1000.00 for a pack, I think that is a little much. Well, you are right about a good source and not something cheap and probably good lifepo4 batteries is where I'll head.

Always good to learn what I can before I leap.

Thanks

Bill Snow

 

[AussieJester]

I checked out a quality hub motor system who say they have had no problems at all with there lifepo4 36v 10ah battery pack. BUT!, they want $1000.00 for a pack,

As i am sure i have told you before Billl EV Components for Headway 36v 10ah

http://www.evcomponents.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=H3610P

$US275 STAY AWAY from duct tape packs Bill, surer than shit you will get a dud and wont know how to fix it...

KiM

 

[dumbass]

Thanks dumbass ( what made you come up with a name like that, you don't sound dumb at all )

Thanks, I hope anything i tell you works out for ya. I think decided on the name when I first started with the forum. I felt very uneducated on most of the subject "a dumbass" but I used my common sense and read everything but I only believe about 20% of it.

Making notes of your information. Years ago I put together an electric bike using a Currie 24v system. up graded to a custom made externial controller and a 36v system. Worked pretty good, speed was 21-22 mph and good range. BUT, it was a real lead sled with two sets of 36v batteries in the saddle bags and a the time I lived in a area with lots of hills. Even with heatsinks and other things for cooling the heat got to it. Went to ICE bikes for many years and now going to try the electric idea again, maybe I can do better with all the new ideas and better equipment.

Yeah, some people get away with running 36v on the Currie 24v motors but a lot of people have over heating problems. I want more power and speed but I just don't like the idea of over volting the motor. Not just because of the heat though. Lets face it the gearbox on these things are noisy enough let alone when you increase the gear speed 50%. And that added speed on the tiny motor gear has got to be a major wear problem.

Batteries: I have been looking into Ping, headway and others. I think Aussie pointed out Headway in the past and they do look pretty good. I want to be careful here, they are not cheap for sure. I checked out a quality hub motor system who say they have had no problems at all with there lifepo4 36v 10ah battery pack. BUT!, they want $1000.00 for a pack, I think that is a little much. Well, you are right about a good source and not something cheap and probably good lifepo4 batteries is where I'll head.

I still like the Thunder Sky prismatic cells. their 20ah and a set of 4 cells (12v) cost $128 . So a 36v 20ah pack would cost you $384 plus shipping ($25) and they are sold, stocked and shipped from the USA. But as I keep saying don't but the crappy charger they sell with them. They also come with a 1 year warranty. These cells are sold in a cool silver plastic case that make them look a lot like SLA batteries. But they sure don't act like an SLA battery.

Always good to learn what I can before I leap.

Thanks

Bill Snow