darkangel said:
I'm not certain where you are, but if you're in the USA, I think anything from australia is a bad idea--here's their shipping cost to west coast USA, for instance:
That costs about as much as the motor itself.
E BIKE MY1020GDA 60V 1000W YK43B 24-60 V Controller
- Thread starter darkangel
- Start date
I'm not certain where you are, but if you're in the USA, I think anything from australia is a bad idea--here's their shipping cost to west coast USA, for instance:
DISH
10 W
- Joined
- Oct 19, 2009
- Messages
- 94
If you have the motor I think you have it's rated RPM is ~2500 RPM at 36 vdc. With an 11 tooth gear on the motor and a 44 tooth gear on a 700c wheel the wheel would be turning at 625 RPM (2500/4) and with that diameter wheel would be doing around 50 MPH !!! Now you can go that fast on a bicycle but not without addressing the issue of aerodynamics, meaning some kind of fairing, etc. Using that fast gearing and making no attempt to address air drag, or any way to SLOWLY ramp up the speed, it's no wonder you were only able to do ~9 mph before the motor caught fire. You would need at least twice that much gear reduction to use the motor you have on a 29 inch wheel.
I have used and HIGHLY recommend the TNC Scooter 600W GEARED Motor - 36 Volts (Style: MY1020Z3) ($80.00) http://tncscooters.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=52_56&product_id=337.
Although the NO LOAD speed of the geared motor is rated at ~480 RPM, typical loaded RPM will run around 325 RPM. 325 RPM on a 700C wheel is around 25 MPH. Assuming 25 MPH sounds OK to you, you would need ONE TO ONE gearing (or close to it) between the motor and the 29 inch wheel. The smallest standard rear bicycle gear is 11 tooth. That's close enough to make the system work but I really don't like putting that much power and torque through that small a gear driving that large a wheel.
I ended up making an adapter for the motor and mounting a 16 tooth freewheel on the shaft of the motor. The primary reason I did this was so I could use standard bicycle chain (motor comes with a 10 tooth gear that takes much wider chain than standard bicycle chain) PLUS I wanted a few more teeth on the motor shaft. I used a heavy duty BMX chain due to the ~1 HP rating of the motor. The freewheel permitted the bike to be pedal driven without the gearbox on the motor turning. Not having a freewheel on the motor adds a LOT of drag to the system.
I'm not sure if you are locked in on driving the rear wheel directly with the motor, but I offer the following idea which has worked well for me.
The best way I have found to use this motor is to mount another crank gear on the opposite side of the crank and run the motor power through the gear system along with the human power. The one disadvantage of this is the pedals will go around any time the motor is spinning unless you go to some kind of crank arm freewheel system. This was not an issue for me since I ALWAYS pedal when I am riding.
My cadence runs around 100 RPM. The motor runs around 325 RPM under load and I have a 16 tooth gear on it. This means I needed approx. a 3 to 1 gear reduction. So I mounted a 48 tooth chain wheel on the opposite side of the crank. With this gearing the cranks turn at 108 RPM full throttle and my speed on the road is be dependent on what gears I have selected with the front and rear Derailleurs. If your natural cadence is slower than 100 RPM you would simply use the motor to drive a larger chain wheel but finding chain wheels much larger than 56 can be difficult.
Top speed on this system with the gearing I had and a cadence of 100 was 43 MPH on level road. Typical cruising speed was 28 to 32 MPH. This was with a 20 inch (406) BMX wheel with a 2.25 inch tire. In the lowest gear this system had so much torque that I managed to spin the rim inside the tire which cut the valve stem off resulting in an instant flat tire. This issue can be greatly reduced by using tires rated for the task at hand and keeping an eye on tire pressure. I doubt you will run into this issue with 700c wheels as that is a higher speed lower torque wheel than something like a 20 inch (406) wheel but will give you some idea of what this motor is capable of when properly geared to the wheel.
Right now I am using one of these geared motors to turn a 10 foot propeller for some aircraft experiments. I am using a gear reduction of 2 to 1 meaning the motor is turning at approx. 320 RPM and the prop is spinning around 160 RPM. Current is running around 20 amps at 36 to 42 VDC for a power level of 720 to 840 watts. The motor will do this all day. I have used higher voltages on this motor and have seen power output levels in the 2 to 3 HP range for S-H-O-R-T periods of time as the motor will overheat if you continue to run it above it's rating. You already appear to have some experience with that issue... :wink:
I have found TNC Scooters VERY responsive in the past to both Email and telephone. BUT, keep in mind they are a SCOOTER store and tend to shy away from non standard use of their products such as mounting a scooter motor on a bicycle and when confronted with questions of this type may try to avoid becoming involved as they have NO EXPERIENCE with any of their products outside what they were intended to be used for....
PS - Had the current limit of your controller been set to something more appropriate for this motor you may not have experienced the meltdown that occurred. However, the gearing you are trying to use is not even in the ball park for the motor and wheel diameter you are trying to use and is equivalent to trying to run the motor in a stalled or locked rotor condition.
Under those conditions current limiting may or may not prevent a meltdown depending on how long power is applied to the motor. ALWAYS keep an eye on temperature when testing a new system. If you can't touch and keep your hand on the motor, it's TOO HOT !!!
I have used and HIGHLY recommend the TNC Scooter 600W GEARED Motor - 36 Volts (Style: MY1020Z3) ($80.00) http://tncscooters.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=52_56&product_id=337.
Although the NO LOAD speed of the geared motor is rated at ~480 RPM, typical loaded RPM will run around 325 RPM. 325 RPM on a 700C wheel is around 25 MPH. Assuming 25 MPH sounds OK to you, you would need ONE TO ONE gearing (or close to it) between the motor and the 29 inch wheel. The smallest standard rear bicycle gear is 11 tooth. That's close enough to make the system work but I really don't like putting that much power and torque through that small a gear driving that large a wheel.
I ended up making an adapter for the motor and mounting a 16 tooth freewheel on the shaft of the motor. The primary reason I did this was so I could use standard bicycle chain (motor comes with a 10 tooth gear that takes much wider chain than standard bicycle chain) PLUS I wanted a few more teeth on the motor shaft. I used a heavy duty BMX chain due to the ~1 HP rating of the motor. The freewheel permitted the bike to be pedal driven without the gearbox on the motor turning. Not having a freewheel on the motor adds a LOT of drag to the system.
I'm not sure if you are locked in on driving the rear wheel directly with the motor, but I offer the following idea which has worked well for me.
The best way I have found to use this motor is to mount another crank gear on the opposite side of the crank and run the motor power through the gear system along with the human power. The one disadvantage of this is the pedals will go around any time the motor is spinning unless you go to some kind of crank arm freewheel system. This was not an issue for me since I ALWAYS pedal when I am riding.
My cadence runs around 100 RPM. The motor runs around 325 RPM under load and I have a 16 tooth gear on it. This means I needed approx. a 3 to 1 gear reduction. So I mounted a 48 tooth chain wheel on the opposite side of the crank. With this gearing the cranks turn at 108 RPM full throttle and my speed on the road is be dependent on what gears I have selected with the front and rear Derailleurs. If your natural cadence is slower than 100 RPM you would simply use the motor to drive a larger chain wheel but finding chain wheels much larger than 56 can be difficult.
Top speed on this system with the gearing I had and a cadence of 100 was 43 MPH on level road. Typical cruising speed was 28 to 32 MPH. This was with a 20 inch (406) BMX wheel with a 2.25 inch tire. In the lowest gear this system had so much torque that I managed to spin the rim inside the tire which cut the valve stem off resulting in an instant flat tire. This issue can be greatly reduced by using tires rated for the task at hand and keeping an eye on tire pressure. I doubt you will run into this issue with 700c wheels as that is a higher speed lower torque wheel than something like a 20 inch (406) wheel but will give you some idea of what this motor is capable of when properly geared to the wheel.
Right now I am using one of these geared motors to turn a 10 foot propeller for some aircraft experiments. I am using a gear reduction of 2 to 1 meaning the motor is turning at approx. 320 RPM and the prop is spinning around 160 RPM. Current is running around 20 amps at 36 to 42 VDC for a power level of 720 to 840 watts. The motor will do this all day. I have used higher voltages on this motor and have seen power output levels in the 2 to 3 HP range for S-H-O-R-T periods of time as the motor will overheat if you continue to run it above it's rating. You already appear to have some experience with that issue... :wink:
I have found TNC Scooters VERY responsive in the past to both Email and telephone. BUT, keep in mind they are a SCOOTER store and tend to shy away from non standard use of their products such as mounting a scooter motor on a bicycle and when confronted with questions of this type may try to avoid becoming involved as they have NO EXPERIENCE with any of their products outside what they were intended to be used for....
PS - Had the current limit of your controller been set to something more appropriate for this motor you may not have experienced the meltdown that occurred. However, the gearing you are trying to use is not even in the ball park for the motor and wheel diameter you are trying to use and is equivalent to trying to run the motor in a stalled or locked rotor condition.
Under those conditions current limiting may or may not prevent a meltdown depending on how long power is applied to the motor. ALWAYS keep an eye on temperature when testing a new system. If you can't touch and keep your hand on the motor, it's TOO HOT !!!wow dish thats awesome, so you suggest when i get that new motor to change my wheel sprocket to at least 56 t, and that should help some. now that frewheel idea is awesome, i am writing all this down into my little note book for further brainstorming. i am also thinking about getting some thin tires that should help i guess, and also i am making some sort of mid frame battery mount to get load of my back wheel. will add photos once i am done.
also i think that i had toooo many sla batteries as with only 2 slas bike was running fine motor was only little worm to touch.
i have been riding pedaling this bike whole last summer 14 miles back and to work so total 28 miles, but this year i just cant my legs are killing me.
so here is new note
- 56t sprocket
- that my1020 motor with cooling fan $115
- frewheel (i guess from tnc scooters)
also i am thinking about buying heat sensor for the motor
also i think that i had toooo many sla batteries as with only 2 slas bike was running fine motor was only little worm to touch.
i have been riding pedaling this bike whole last summer 14 miles back and to work so total 28 miles, but this year i just cant my legs are killing me.
so here is new note
- 56t sprocket
- that my1020 motor with cooling fan $115
- frewheel (i guess from tnc scooters)
also i am thinking about buying heat sensor for the motor
DISH
10 W
- Joined
- Oct 19, 2009
- Messages
- 94
The motor you mentioned in your notes that sells for $115 has a no load RPM of 550 RPM. I have NO EXPERIENCE with this motor. I have NOT had very good experience with planetary geared motors and tend to shy away from them at least for the non standard systems I have been working with. Both of the geared motors have a fan in them. TNC Scooters makes more profit on the planetary geared motor and tend to make it look more attractive. I wouldn't use that motor unless I really needed the higher 550 RPM shaft speed. In your case, since you are trying to drive the rear wheel directly from the motor, the higher shaft speed may be more appropriate than the slower speed geared motor.
And forget the 56 tooth gear on the wheel. That will NEVER WORK unless you intend to go VERY slowly. I think you missed something. Go back and re-read my previous post. The chain on my system runs from the motor to the CRANKS 
not the rear wheel !!!
REPEAT: I have the motor driving the CRANKS NOT the rear wheel. The cranks (in my case) turn at 100+ RPM as that is my typical cadence. I've been told that I am a semi-pro bike rider (whatever that means) and tend to have a bit higher cadence than a non pro rider. My typical power output at that cadence is the 600 to 750 watt area. It is not uncommon for me to stretch or break chains or bend bicycle frames using human power only (NO MOTOR) during a sprint.
On the system I was talking about in the previous post I mounted a second chain wheel up front on the opposite side of where the normal bicycle chain is and drove that gear with the motor. The motor had a 16 tooth gear on it and the secondary crank gear is 48 teeth for a gear reduction of 3 to 1. When the motor is running wide open throttle at 325 RPM that turns the cranks at ~108 RPM. Since the motor is now turning the cranks that means the motor can take advantage of the regular bicycle gearing and is not locked into the single gear system like you are trying to do.
Although I have NO EXPERIENCE with the 550 RPM motor you have chosen to use I offer the following assuming you intend to drive the rear wheel directly and NOT THROUGH THE CRANKS as I was doing:
I have no idea what top speed you are shooting for. I'll assume 25 MPH. A 700c wheel will be doing ~320 RPM at this speed.
Since the motor has a no load speed of 550 RPM I will assume 450 RPM under load although something tells me this motor may run closer to 400 RPM under full load....
The motor comes with a 10 tooth gear. Since I have NO EXPERIENCE with the motor I'm not sure, but it looks to me that this motor also takes the wider chain (NOT STANDARD BICYCLE CHAIN). Assuming you are prepared to deal with the wider chain you will need a gear reduction of (450 rpm motor speed /320 rpm wheel speed) or 1.406. This suggests a 14 tooth gear on the rear wheel (standard small rear wheel gear !!!) so we end up with the following:
10 tooth gear on motor turning at 450 RPM
14 tooth gear on rear wheel for gear reduction of 1.4. (10 / 14 = 1.4)
450 RPM / 1.4 = 321 RPM or 25 MPH using a 700C wheel.
Although math is not my forte, I presented the above to give you some idea of how to calculate gear ratios and figure out what size gear you need to get the top speed that you want while permitting the motor to spin at a speed that will NOT burn it up....
And forget the 56 tooth gear on the wheel.
That will NEVER WORK unless you intend to go VERY slowly. I think you missed something. Go back and re-read my previous post. The chain on my system runs from the motor to the CRANKS not the rear wheel !!!REPEAT: I have the motor driving the CRANKS NOT the rear wheel. The cranks (in my case) turn at 100+ RPM as that is my typical cadence. I've been told that I am a semi-pro bike rider (whatever that means) and tend to have a bit higher cadence than a non pro rider. My typical power output at that cadence is the 600 to 750 watt area. It is not uncommon for me to stretch or break chains or bend bicycle frames using human power only (NO MOTOR) during a sprint.
On the system I was talking about in the previous post I mounted a second chain wheel up front on the opposite side of where the normal bicycle chain is and drove that gear with the motor. The motor had a 16 tooth gear on it and the secondary crank gear is 48 teeth for a gear reduction of 3 to 1. When the motor is running wide open throttle at 325 RPM that turns the cranks at ~108 RPM. Since the motor is now turning the cranks that means the motor can take advantage of the regular bicycle gearing and is not locked into the single gear system like you are trying to do.
Although I have NO EXPERIENCE with the 550 RPM motor you have chosen to use I offer the following assuming you intend to drive the rear wheel directly and NOT THROUGH THE CRANKS as I was doing:
I have no idea what top speed you are shooting for. I'll assume 25 MPH. A 700c wheel will be doing ~320 RPM at this speed.
Since the motor has a no load speed of 550 RPM I will assume 450 RPM under load although something tells me this motor may run closer to 400 RPM under full load....
The motor comes with a 10 tooth gear. Since I have NO EXPERIENCE with the motor I'm not sure, but it looks to me that this motor also takes the wider chain (NOT STANDARD BICYCLE CHAIN). Assuming you are prepared to deal with the wider chain you will need a gear reduction of (450 rpm motor speed /320 rpm wheel speed) or 1.406. This suggests a 14 tooth gear on the rear wheel (standard small rear wheel gear !!!) so we end up with the following:
10 tooth gear on motor turning at 450 RPM
14 tooth gear on rear wheel for gear reduction of 1.4. (10 / 14 = 1.4)
450 RPM / 1.4 = 321 RPM or 25 MPH using a 700C wheel.
Although math is not my forte, I presented the above to give you some idea of how to calculate gear ratios and figure out what size gear you need to get the top speed that you want while permitting the motor to spin at a speed that will NOT burn it up....
great dish, i am glad to have you help me man, cause i got no clue about gearing, i would be just waisting money.
thank you so much buddy
new notes
- calculate and find small sprocket to fit on to the back wheel, also needs 9 holes for hub addapter mount http://item.mobileweb.ebay.com/viewitem?itemId=261007305740
thank you so much buddy
new notes
- calculate and find small sprocket to fit on to the back wheel, also needs 9 holes for hub addapter mount http://item.mobileweb.ebay.com/viewitem?itemId=261007305740
guys
i just got response from Chris with TNC, he asked me if i can give him weight of the bike, me, batteries and terrain
i replied
bike 45lbs
me 175lbs
battery 9 lbs sla
their bicycle motor sprocket 11 teeth
chain #415 (this chain is good with any sprocket that has 1/2" teeth diameter)
http://tncscooters.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=63_96&product_id=149
terrain; long hills but not steep
now i just have to wait and see what Chris can offer, keeping my fingers crossed
i just got response from Chris with TNC, he asked me if i can give him weight of the bike, me, batteries and terrain
i replied
bike 45lbs
me 175lbs
battery 9 lbs sla
their bicycle motor sprocket 11 teeth
chain #415 (this chain is good with any sprocket that has 1/2" teeth diameter)
http://tncscooters.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=63_96&product_id=149
terrain; long hills but not steep
now i just have to wait and see what Chris can offer, keeping my fingers crossed
TNC advised my chain was to tight and that's why motor probably over heated and died. case closed
--------------------------------------------- motors that you guys mentioned tnc don't recommend for my bike , those motors are more like for trikes and ATVs. go figure A
i am kind of looking to get MY1020-B GDA 60V again but not sure what is more important
so question for you guys
when it comes to hills what is more important on motor;
voltage, w or rpm?
and
when it comes to flat land
speed is up to sprocket ratio used on the hub
Area where i live in Addison Illinois got some hills not steep but long and like 45deg, some flats
is there a good engine out there that will not overheat, i will try to get hub sprocket 15t-16t
--------------------------------------------- motors that you guys mentioned tnc don't recommend for my bike , those motors are more like for trikes and ATVs. go figure A
i am kind of looking to get MY1020-B GDA 60V again but not sure what is more important
so question for you guys
when it comes to hills what is more important on motor;
voltage, w or rpm?
and
when it comes to flat land
speed is up to sprocket ratio used on the hub
Area where i live in Addison Illinois got some hills not steep but long and like 45deg, some flats
is there a good engine out there that will not overheat, i will try to get hub sprocket 15t-16t
currently looking into http://www.gokartgalaxy.com/sprocket_blanks.htm hub sprockets
does anyone know sprocket # which will fit chain #415 as it seams like they do not have one for this chain
update; checked given link and their min T sprocket is 17 T, by calculation i need to have at least 15 T minimum 16 T max
UPDATE; IMPOSSIBLE 15T OR 17T ONLY 21T WOULD FIT
does anyone know sprocket # which will fit chain #415 as it seams like they do not have one for this chain
update; checked given link and their min T sprocket is 17 T, by calculation i need to have at least 15 T minimum 16 T max
UPDATE; IMPOSSIBLE 15T OR 17T ONLY 21T WOULD FIT
Thank you Miles, originally i was planning to modify my 44t sprocket and mount it on to http://item.mobileweb.ebay.com/viewitem ... 1007305740
here is something from me for all of you with glorious cnc routers. g code and dxf file for solid works or whichever
http://idleamusements.com/Software/sprocketeer2.htm
here is something from me for all of you with glorious cnc routers. g code and dxf file for solid works or whichever
http://idleamusements.com/Software/sprocketeer2.htm
after some calculations the closest tooth count with clam shell sprocket adapter that has 1/4" bolt holes is 21 tooth on safe side
which will give me
driver gear sprocket 11t
driven gear sprocket 21t (need one made)
wheel size 29"
my1020-b 60v 1000w 3000 rpm under load 950 rpm
total speed 43mph and my goal is 35 mph, so kind of perfect
can anyone make the sprocket?
which will give me
driver gear sprocket 11t
driven gear sprocket 21t (need one made)
wheel size 29"
my1020-b 60v 1000w 3000 rpm under load 950 rpm
total speed 43mph and my goal is 35 mph, so kind of perfect
can anyone make the sprocket?
DATABASE00
100 mW
- Joined
- May 4, 2012
- Messages
- 41
loving the thread I was going to go with the 1000 watt my1020 from ebay but landed up cheaping out and buying treadmill motors. but thanks for your thread, its giving me alot to think about before my build..
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=39414
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=39414
guys the sprocket from http://www.staton-inc.com/store/products/22_tooth_1_2_x_3_32_Three_prong_Sprocket-685-47.html strong enough for my back wheel, it seams so tiny and thin
i would get this one and drill mounting holes on it
it would give me 41mph which is ok
i would get this one and drill mounting holes on it
it would give me 41mph which is ok