E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

[Rix]

Kepler,

Thanks for the info on Live For Physics. I will check out that Forum on ES. Its neat to see R&D happen. Seems like ES has great info everywhere. Thanks again, Rix

 

[Alan B]

Apparently Luke won yesterday's motorized bicycle race. Photos in the West Coast Events thread here on ES.

 

[cruzxia]

Kepler
Can you please give us some info on your BPM motor. There website is not very clear, and they make a few versions of that motor.
I think you are either the 48v/500w 201rpm or the 36v/500w 201rpm.
Using the 36v version should give a higher top speed with the 72v setup.
Cruzxia

 

[QuaziModo]

Woohoo! Fighter is on its way!

 

[Kepler]

Kepler
Can you please give us some info on your BPM motor. There website is not very clear, and they make a few versions of that motor.
I think you are either the 48v/500w 201rpm or the 36v/500w 201rpm.
Using the 36v version should give a higher top speed with the 72v setup.
Cruzxia

The BMSbattery site only has 2 winds as part of their range however I believe there 5 or 6 options available. The number of winds are referenced as a code number. I believe the 201rpm is a code 13 where the 393rpm a code 8.

I went for a code 10 which I believe is a 295RPM motor @ 36V. My target speed was 60kph on 18S LiPo (around 67V nominal) so the code 10 worked out to be the best fit on a 24" wheel.
My motor is a 36V/500W version. I doubt very much that there is any difference between a 36V and 48V. I think its more about steering people away from running higher voltages on the higher speed winds purely for warranty protection.

The information I have is that the code 10 motor will provide 8.2 rpm per volt. This seems to add up for my setup. 67V (nominal) x 8.2 = 549rpm. Wheel circ = 1.990m
1.990 x 557 = 1108 m-min 1108 x 60 = 66,480 m-hr 66,480 / 1000 = 66kph. This is of cause a no load speed. In the real world I can reach 60kph on flat ground and 64kph on a slight decline.

 

[Cowardlyduck]

So QMS posted several pages back about his solution for mud protection on the Bomber's rear shock area, which looks like it would work great....but what about the Fighter.
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=23996&start=1845#p589765

I'm currently trying to think about idea's for protecting the BB/shock area from the massive amounts mud that I always seem to get stuck in there. I'm not really in much of a position to make my own solution, but I am willing to try something not originally intended for the purpose.
Which leads me to consider one of these.

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=24478
They normally get mounted like this...

However, I think it would be possible to figure out a way to connect the top of it to the seat sub-frame, and bottom to the shock/swing-arm connection.
If it doesn't work like that, I could at least connect the top of it to the top of the shock mount, bottom to the swing-arm mount and wrap it over the shock to protect it at least.

What do others think? Any other idea's?

Cheers

 

[Stealth_Bombering]

 

[Rix]

Cowardlyduck,

QMS does have a real nice/and clean fender on his bomber. If he markets that, I will buy it. For now, I am going a different route that will protect my shock and front fork tubes but wont do anything to keep mud off of my back. I will be wrapping neoprene sleaves that velcro together around the lower portion of the rear shock and fork tubes. This will protect the shock shaft and fork stanchions from rocks, dings, and dirt which is the number 1 killer shaft/stanchion seals. Once my bomber arrives, I will post a couple of photos on this forum. To see what I am talking about, check out: lizardskins.com If they dont have the size you want, just call and tell them what you want. They will make it and send it UPS or USPS to any country that has a postal delivery service. Or if you are handy with a sewing machine, buy some 3-4mm thick neoprene rolls and bulk velcro and you can make some. I can tell you from experience with my dirtbikes that neoprene sleaves are very durable, they work, and are easy to clean with low pressure water. They don't weigh nothing so Ebike applications are more than doable. As far as the BB goes, you're also contending with the front wheel flipping mud. Short of wide fenders that go almost to the ground on the front and QMS's rear, keeping mud off the bottom bracket area will be difficult. I will do some more research, if I come accross something else, will post for you. Take care,

Rix

 

[Paul_G]

Cowardlyduck,

QMS does have a real nice/and clean fender on his bomber. If he markets that, I will buy it. For now, I am going a different route that will protect my shock and front fork tubes but wont do anything to keep mud off of my back. I will be wrapping neoprene sleaves that velcro together around the lower portion of the rear shock and fork tubes. This will protect the shock shaft and fork stanchions from rocks, dings, and dirt which is the number 1 killer shaft/stanchion seals. Once my bomber arrives, I will post a couple of photos on this forum. To see what I am talking about, check out: lizardskins.com If they dont have the size you want, just call and tell them what you want. They will make it and send it UPS or USPS to any country that has a postal delivery service. Or if you are handy with a sewing machine, buy some 3-4mm thick neoprene rolls and bulk velcro and you can make some. I can tell you from experience with my dirtbikes that neoprene sleaves are very durable, they work, and are easy to clean with low pressure water. They don't weigh nothing so Ebike applications are more than doable. As far as the BB goes, you're also contending with the front wheel flipping mud. Short of wide fenders that go almost to the ground on the front and QMS's rear, keeping mud off the bottom bracket area will be difficult. I will do some more research, if I come accross something else, will post for you. Take care,

Rix

I love the fender but IMO there is a problem with where it attaches.

Loosen your Bomber shock bolts and silicone the rubber bushing and leave them loose....go for a ride on small cracks and bumps. Now tighten the shock bolts tightly as if it was holding the fender and repeat the same ride.

It will be EZ to feel the diff.

Perhaps the fender can be installed with 2 nuts per side to leave the shock mounts loose and clamp the fender in place? Or replace the rubber bushings with steel needle bearings and sell both and that would also improve the ride over loose rubber bushings.

Make it that way and I'm in

 

[Tench]

Paul, have a closer look at the fender mounting, it fits outside of the mounting lugs on the swingarm so will not have any effect on the shock mounting, as long as the bolt is tight. I mounted one this way many months ago on my bomber, there are pics in this thread dating back to then. Found it, page 36 Aug 2011.

Simon.

 

[Paul_G]

Paul, have a closer look at the fender mounting, it fits outside of the mounting lugs on the swingarm so will not have any effect on the shock mounting, as long as the bolt is tight. I mounted one this way many months ago on my bomber, there are pics in this thread dating back to then. Found it, page 36 Aug 2011.

Simon.

It looks like its bolted to the bottom shock mount to me and the nut must stay loose or you hurt the ride big time. I fail to see how you can leave that nut loose and still hold the fender in place.

 

[Tench]

I dont understand why you say the nut must stay loose, the wheel, swingarm and mudgaurd will all move together, there is no need for the bolt to be left loose so it can be tightened and it will all be fine, or am i missing something? Mine was tightened.

 

[Paul_G]

I dont understand why you say the nut must stay loose, the wheel, swingarm and mudgaurd will all move together, there is no need for the bolt to be left loose so it can be tightened and it will all be fine, or am i missing something? Mine was tightened.

When you tighten the lower shock mount bolt tight the shock will not move freely up and down as the tight bushing will prevent it from rotating. Try it....take the fender off and leave BOTH shock retaining bolts loose and see the diff in the ride. Also silicone spray the lose bushings as well.

So if you used steel needle bearings to replace the rubber shock bushings you would not crush them and you got a super riding bike with a great fender.

 

[Tench]

The shock fitted to my bomber had a spherical steel rose joint type bearing in it, with the bolt locked up tight the shock could still move freely, the present shock is different to the one that was fitted to mine, surly it has some form of spacer running in a bush or a metalastic bush?

 

[Paul_G]

The shock fitted to my bomber had a spherical steel rose joint type bearing in it, with the bolt locked up tight the shock could still move freely, the present shock is different to the one that was fitted to mine, surly it has some form of spacer running in a bush or a metalastic bush?

I wish it did. My Bomber came with the old type shock and rode far better than the new style I now have on it. Loosen it and its better but still not as good but the old style would still bind when tight.

Try it lose and see fer yourself

 

[Rix]

Hello Paul,

I know exactly what you are saying. If the lower shock bolt on the swingarm is tightend, the mounting arms on the swing arm pinch against the shock. If its pinched too tight, the shock doens't want to freely sway back and forth as the angle changes through the suspension's travel. The best cure for this is to get a longer bolt. One that is long enough for an additionl nut to screw on. When you tighten the first nut, tighten it just enough so the shock sways freely forward and backward and there is no side to side play. While holding that nut with a wrench, put another nut on and tighten that nut against the first nut while holding the first nut with a wrench so it can't spin. That would be preferable to riding with the shock bolts loose. This can also be done with the upper shock mount and that would eliminate sway binding completely. When my bomber arrives, I will check the play on the upper and lower shock. Another thing to consider is looking at QMS' shock/fender mount, looks like a self locking nylon nut. I am betting that there are some torque specs for tightening the shock bolts. Is is possible that your shock bolts were over tightend? That would also explain the shock sway binding on you.

Rix

 

[Cowardlyduck]

Thanks for all the comments guy's...but the Fighter has a different shock mount design to the Bomber, so it will need a different solution.

I suppose you could still mount a guard to the lower shock mount bolts like on the Bomber, but it would require a different design.

As for mud hitting the BB from the front tyre...yes you can never easily fully stop this, but I'm finding it collecting there from my REAR tire as my current mud guard is just a seat post mounted one.
Basically from the seat post sub frame down to the swing arm gets completely covered in mud atm, and it's a pain to clean well with all the nooks and crannies in there.

One other thought I has was to just cut up some plastic bottle's or something similar and, using some zip tie's through holes drilled in the plastic, secure it to the lower shock mount arm. Would look pretty horrible though.

I might try the neoprene solution. My wife is handy with the sewing machine so maybe I'll employ her services.

Cheers

 

[QMS]

Thanks for all the comments guy's...but the Fighter has a different shock mount design to the Bomber, so it will need a different solution.

I suppose you could still mount a guard to the lower shock mount bolts like on the Bomber, but it would require a different design.

As for mud hitting the BB from the front tyre...yes you can never easily fully stop this, but I'm finding it collecting there from my REAR tire as my current mud guard is just a seat post mounted one.
Basically from the seat post sub frame down to the swing arm gets completely covered in mud atm, and it's a pain to clean well with all the nooks and crannies in there.

One other thought I has was to just cut up some plastic bottle's or something similar and, using some zip tie's through holes drilled in the plastic, secure it to the lower shock mount arm. Would look pretty horrible though.

I might try the neoprene solution. My wife is handy with the sewing machine so maybe I'll employ her services.

Cheers

Hey CD. There is NO binding of the lower shock mount with the bolt done up tight!!!!! Re the Fighter mounting of the rear guard, the bracket will be basicly the same but moved up the guard to mount in the same way. If you check my web site the bash guard stops a lot of mud and water reaching the BB area too!! I am working on the front one at the moment and will be mounted as a clamp design to the lower fork crown or a simple (but neat) cable tie set up. When i have a Fighter in stock PERMANENTLY i will produce a prototype set then test them then sell them,here's a couple of pics so far.
I will keep you all up to date and in the loop :lol:

 

[Mugen]

Hello peeps, just picked up my new bomber, wow what a bike absolutely love it!! Did a gentle 20 mile and used 9.7 Ah? Is that about right?

Now as a complete noob not sure what all this means to me? I have read thats its good for the battery to take it easy for 3 cycles and to ideally stop at around 15Ah?

Can anybody give me an idea of key values to look for on the CA?

Also I was told that the charger itself can be optimised and should read certain values at certain points in the charge cycle, i.e a potentiometer than can be adjusted?

Not after modding it just want to make sure I'm getting the most out of the bike and that I look after it properly. Im always keen to learn but some of the forum posts are over my head and relate to modified bikes.

Thanks in advance!

Lee

 

[Kepler]

Congratulations on the new bike.

9.5ah means you have used a bit over half a battery so 20 mile sounds reasonable. Don't confuse ahs with Whrs. The bike battery is rated at 1500 Whrs which your CA displays also. I think you will find that you have used around 800 to 900 Whrs on that ride. One of my favourite figures from the CA is Whrs/km or mile in your case. Let's you Know how economical or uneconomical you are running.

There are no adjustments to make on the charger. Definitely leave it as it is.

 

[Mugen]

Thanks for the info, very helpful!

So the one to watch is Whrs? I will have a look as I have not reset the CA from yesterdays ride. Also the supplier told us (my brother has one too!) that our shipping delay was due to upgraded batteries, so far we have been unable to find out if the specs are different, any ideas?

Thanks again!

Lee

 

[Kepler]

No problems

Doesn't matter which one you use as long as you know the capacity. The Bomber uses an 18ah pack so 18 x 84V = approx 1500 Whrs . Not exactly sure what the difference in batteries are but I believe the upgrade is more about reliability then performance.

 

[Mugen]

Just out of interest what would be the Whrs/mile to aim for? Is the aim to achieve a lower number?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Kepler]

25Wh/mile is quite achievable on a Bomber. I do this kind of economy on mine all the time. This economy will give you a 60 mile range. You need to keep the speed down around the 20mph mark to achieve this sort of economy. The lower the number the better your economy. As soon as you start to travel at higher speeds, the economy quickly drops off. This is because power versus speed is an logarithmic progression.

Distance ebiking is all about planing. Once you know how far you intend to travel, its easy to to adjust your riding style for the correct whrs / mile.

For example, if you know the ride distance is going to be around 40 mile, just divide 40 into 1500 (battery capacity in Whr) and you now know what sort of Whr /mile you need to maintain. In the above example you would need to maintain 37.5 Whr / mile. I tend to ride more economically at the start of a ride and keep my Whr/ mile average quite low then push it much harder at the back end of the ride.

 

[Mugen]

Makes sense, again thanks!

My last ride was about 43 but it was very sandy and muddy so to be expected.

Thanks

Lee