E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

[Emmett]

If you ride an e-bike offroad, then a primary fun advantage (compared to mountain biking) is being able to NOT pedal at all. It opens up all kind of fun opportunities around corners and over rough ground or obstacles, where pedaling throws you off balance or is simply impossible because a crank end or pedal will hit the ground, which means you crash or worse. A pedalec device would be useless for these situations. In fact for serious off road you are much better off with shorter crank arms.

Throttle control while pedaling becomes second nature. You will progressively learn how much power will go to the rear wheel at a given throttle position and motor speed. You grip the outside of the bar with the outside of your hand, and modulate throttle and front brake using your index finger and thumb. Using a 1/4 or 3/4 width throttle is a personal preference. I like 3/4 much more.

Offroad, don't worry about not getting enough exercise due to not pedalling enough. Just go faster and your whole body gets a serious workout - before the bike battery says its time to end. It's a better kind of fitness too. More core and upper body. Less of that typical "T-Rex" MTB rider physique.

 

[Emmett]

Ottodog,

Thinking about fitness and pedalling versus riding faster: To go fast on trails, assuming the trails are empty of other people etc, a key requirement is good suspension setup and also a MC rear rim+tire setup. I found it's the only way to up the pace, look further ahead, and blitz rough sections without getting totally thrown off line or smashing the stock rear wheel on a hard edge, then having to do the "walk of shame" with a rear flat. When you know the bike can take on the crap going under you, then confidence and trust goes up a lot. So you do more and get the workout.

The other thing to consider is Fighter vs Bomber. I love my Fighter. Sure it gives up some power to the Bomber, but the rear hub is so much lighter, and if the handling and suspension is good (and MC rear tire), then you just hold the Fighter's motor on for longer, and end up going plenty fast!

Sealed hub bearings and oil cooling (stator to outer casing) changed my e-bike experience, big time. See my earlier posts.

BTW: My Fighter is pure awesome.

 

[Ottodog]

Any thoughts on "Bomber" versus "Fighter'? I wonder if the lighter weight of the Fighter might be worth considering. I also kind of dig that Schlumpf drive and it is quite a bit lighter. My only real problem with it is the smaller 24 inch wheels. I think I prefer the 26" of the Bomber...

 

[Ottodog]

Ottodog,

Thinking about fitness and pedalling versus riding faster: To go fast on trails, assuming the trails are empty of other people etc, a key requirement is good suspension setup and also a MC rear rim+tire setup. I found it's the only way to up the pace, look further ahead, and blitz rough sections without getting totally thrown off line or smashing the stock rear wheel on a hard edge, then having to do the "walk of shame" with a rear flat. When you know the bike can take on the crap going under you, then confidence and trust goes up a lot. So you do more and get the workout.

The other thing to consider is Fighter vs Bomber. I love my Fighter. Sure it gives up some power to the Bomber, but the rear hub is so much lighter, and if the handling and suspension is good (and MC rear tire), then you just hold the Fighter's motor on for longer, and end up going plenty fast!

Sealed hub bearings and oil cooling (stator to outer casing) changed my e-bike experience, big time. See my earlier posts.

Ha! We must have cross posted.

I was hoping somebody with a Fighter would chime in! Is the Schlumpf drive as cool as it sounds? What is the true top speed? I read it's very conservatively rated...

 

[Cowardlyduck]

So I'm starting to think about my next battery for my Fighter. It's still a way off before I can dive in, but I like to think things through and plan ahead.
I had 'decided' previously that I would go the 18650 route for my next Fighter battery as I was disappointed by my Hobby King LiPo, however the recent addition of the Multistar batteries to the Hobby King line-up has me reconsidering my options as it's much more affordable for significant capacity.

The Fighter battery box opening is roughly 125x125x400mm and has some wiggle room towards the top 'neck' area, and a bit of room towards the base once some of the padding is removed also.
Based on some rough calculations, it should be possible to fit 12x 8000Mah 6S Multistars.
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/...apacity_6S_8000mAh_Multi_Rotor_Lipo_Pack.html

If stacked correctly 12 of these would be approximately 116x116x435mm including a bit of a buffer.
If I could pull that off, at 12S, it would give me 48AH!
That's 2.1KWH+ theoretical...but probably closer to 1.75KWH realistically usable.
Either way, that's a huge improvement on my current capacity, and significantly better still than even a Bomber.

Any thoughts/comments from others? Should I forget about HK LiPo and just go the 18650 route?
The problem I face with an 18650 pack is mainly in the cost. For a similar capacity pack it would be upwards of $1500, where as the HK LiPo is only around $1000.

Cheers

 

[Emmett]

Any thoughts on "Bomber" versus "Fighter'? I wonder if the lighter weight of the Fighter might be worth considering. I also kind of dig that Schlumpf drive and it is quite a bit lighter. My only real problem with it is the smaller 24 inch wheels. I think I prefer the 26" of the Bomber...

Ottodog,

The 24 MTB front is fine. But it does need a good setup fork (damping) because the smaller wheel means the fork typically works over a wide range of stroke speeds. I've bent shims in my forks and had to beef up high speed damping to cope. It's good now. When I eventually kill my DNM USD-8 forks, I'll just get another set and mod them the same as I have now.

Hypothetically, I've thought about a 26" front. But it would require a chassis geometry redesign, and I dont think it'd be trivial to get the bike's good handling back. The battery mass is nice and central, but remember there is the rear hub weight so these bikes handle kinda unique, but they can work.

You might also need to consider the stealth factor, and not attracting attention. In which case both wheels being the same diameter looks normal.

The 24 rear is changed to a 19x1.6 MC rear, which is about 1/4" less radius than a 24 MTB tire. I took Rix's advice, then added a Tubliss system for extra benefits of grip, rim protection and flat prevention. The size of the rear wheel is no problem.

If you are a big guy, then 26 front and rear could be better (diff brand of bike). But then there is no MC rear rim/tire option, which rules that out in my opinion. I'm 5'9" (176cm) .

 

[Rodney64]

So I'm starting to think about my next battery for my Fighter. It's still a way off before I can dive in, but I like to think things through and plan ahead.
I had 'decided' previously that I would go the 18650 route for my next Fighter battery as I was disappointed by my Hobby King LiPo, however the recent addition of the Multistar batteries to the Hobby King line-up has me reconsidering my options as it's much more affordable for significant capacity.

The Fighter battery box opening is roughly 125x125x400mm and has some wiggle room towards the top 'neck' area, and a bit of room towards the base once some of the padding is removed also.
Based on some rough calculations, it should be possible to fit 12x 8000Mah 6S Multistars.
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/...apacity_6S_8000mAh_Multi_Rotor_Lipo_Pack.html

If stacked correctly 12 of these would be approximately 116x116x435mm including a bit of a buffer.
If I could pull that off, at 12S, it would give me 48AH!
That's 2.1KWH+ theoretical...but probably closer to 1.75KWH realistically usable.
Either way, that's a huge improvement on my current capacity, and significantly better still than even a Bomber.

Any thoughts/comments from others? Should I forget about HK LiPo and just go the 18650 route?
The problem I face with an 18650 pack is mainly in the cost. For a similar capacity pack it would be upwards of $1500, where as the HK LiPo is only around $1000.

Cheers

With an addapto charging though the controller using 4s it will work as each cell is monitored by the controller. Other wise bite the bullet and go with a 18650 pack. It's just piece of mind.

 

[Emmett]

Is the Schlumpf drive as cool as it sounds? What is the true top speed? I read it's very conservatively rated...

The 2 speed gearbox works well. Low gear for getting home on a flat battery. High gear for pedalling at normal trail riding speeds at around 15 to 45km/h. My Fighter does about 65km/h tops on the flat, going by my GPS.

If you put smaller cranks on it, then be sure to get the offset cranks, because straight cranks wont fit. I made that mistake when I ordered.

 

[Allex]

So I'm starting to think about my next battery for my Fighter. It's still a way off before I can dive in, but I like to think things through and plan ahead.
I had 'decided' previously that I would go the 18650 route for my next Fighter battery as I was disappointed by my Hobby King LiPo, however the recent addition of the Multistar batteries to the Hobby King line-up has me reconsidering my options as it's much more affordable for significant capacity.

The Fighter battery box opening is roughly 125x125x400mm and has some wiggle room towards the top 'neck' area, and a bit of room towards the base once some of the padding is removed also.
Based on some rough calculations, it should be possible to fit 12x 8000Mah 6S Multistars.
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/...apacity_6S_8000mAh_Multi_Rotor_Lipo_Pack.html

If stacked correctly 12 of these would be approximately 116x116x435mm including a bit of a buffer.
If I could pull that off, at 12S, it would give me 48AH!
That's 2.1KWH+ theoretical...but probably closer to 1.75KWH realistically usable.
Either way, that's a huge improvement on my current capacity, and significantly better still than even a Bomber.

Any thoughts/comments from others? Should I forget about HK LiPo and just go the 18650 route?
The problem I face with an 18650 pack is mainly in the cost. For a similar capacity pack it would be upwards of $1500, where as the HK LiPo is only around $1000.

Cheers

With an addapto charging though the controller using 4s it will work as each cell is monitored by the controller. Other wise bite the bullet and go with a 18650 pack. It's just piece of mind.

Dont forget the lipos will swell up, so you need to have some room around for compensation.
Oh yeah, if you must go lipo, choose 4s, less work to do balancing harnesses, bu tknowing your mods, you will not have a problem with this issue
Have you asked Okashira to make you a pack? He has decent prices on his 18650 builds

 

[Cowardlyduck]

With an addapto charging though the controller using 4s it will work as each cell is monitored by the controller. Other wise bite the bullet and go with a 18650 pack. It's just piece of mind.

I do have an Adaptto, but not the BMS, and I wasn't planning on getting one. My current setup has been with 6S HK Zippy LiPo units so I think I would want to stick with 6S if I went with HK LiPo again.
After having run HK LiPo without issue for a while now, I'm not so concerned about the safety aspect, so it wouldn't be a great piece of mind running 18650 over LiPo in my case.

Dont forget the lipos will swell up, so you need to have some room around for compensation.
Oh yeah, if you must go lipo, choose 4s, less work to do balancing harnesses, bu tknowing your mods, you will not have a problem with this issue
Have you asked Okashira to make you a pack? He has decent prices on his 18650 builds

Good point on the swelling, however there would still be enough room in this case.
As above, I'm not planning on using the Adaptto BMS, so 4S wouldn't really be any benefit to me. I also already have 6S balance harnesses and a BC168 for 6S balance charging, so it would not make sense to go with anything other than 6S again in my case.
I haven't asked Okashira about a pack. Where is he based? Shipping to Australia is one of the killer aspects of getting an 18650 pack built vs LiPo as Hobby King have a local warehouse which cuts down on shipping massively.
That being said, if I could get 2KW+ for less than $1250 it might be worth it...something to think about I think.

Cheers

 

[Allex]

Shame that you dont have BMS, half of the beauty with the adaptto system is the charging

 

[arcticfly]

My battery is stuffed after a winter of no use...

I managed to charge it up, but It hits low voltage cutoff as soon as I go full throttle. So now I ask you, what is the best way to try and get the cells balanced again? Leave it at the charger for hours and hours, or try to drive the bike at low throttle til cutoff and recharge?

Cheers
Alex

 

[Theodore Voltaire]

My battery is stuffed after a winter of no use...

I managed to charge it up, but It hits low voltage cutoff as soon as I go full throttle. So now I ask you, what is the best way to try and get the cells balanced again? Leave it at the charger for hours and hours, or try to drive the bike at low throttle til cutoff and recharge?

Cheers
Alex

What was the temperature you were riding in? My stock battery does the same below 50 f

 

[00Tj]

Any thoughts on "Bomber" versus "Fighter'? I wonder if the lighter weight of the Fighter might be worth considering. I also kind of dig that Schlumpf drive and it is quite a bit lighter. My only real problem with it is the smaller 24 inch wheels. I think I prefer the 26" of the Bomber...

Bombers have 24" wheels front and back stock? There aren't 26" wheels on any stealth bike afaik??

On the throttle side of things, I find it incredibly easy to regulate my throttle/peddling. It really isn't as hard as you're making out?

On a side note, I got my bomber upto 85.2km/h today on an almost full charge, dead flat road with minimal wind. I have also found that I get a few extra kph since I have upgraded to a Oneal Sierra Dual Sport helmet. Fantastic helmet for on and off road!

 

[bigbore]

Rear shock spring preload adjustment
I think I have to much height loss when I'm on the Bomber then I'm going to increase the spring preload.
Is there a rule of thumb to take in consideration? How much height loss is considered right?
I'm 83Kg = 183 Lb

 

[Jimboyr6]

Rear shock spring preload adjustment
I think I have to much height loss when I'm on the Bomber then I'm going to increase the spring preload.
Is there a rule of thumb to take in consideration? How much height loss is considered right?
I'm 83Kg = 183 Lb

I would start at setting ur rider sag up first go from there
I think its 2-3 inchs but i think @83 kg not sure

 

[Emmett]

Rear shock spring preload adjustment
I think I have to much height loss when I'm on the Bomber then I'm going to increase the spring preload.
Is there a rule of thumb to take in consideration? How much height loss is considered right?
I'm 83Kg = 183 Lb

A good target for rear sag is 33% of travel with you sitting in your normal riding position. That is rider sag. If you set it right, and also have the front of the bike at the right height (via fork height, spring rate and preload), then you've found the right combination of turning ability vs straight line stability. A fairly simple way to get the front vs rear ride heights correct is to do circle testing with various turn radius on flat ground. Ground where the bike can power drift is even better. You fine tune the rider sag to get the spring progression working they way you need it to match your shock damping and also to get the right amount of rear squat under power (for railing corner ruts/berms and stability exiting corners). Say the rear feels a little better with more preload, then you'd raise the front to restore best chassis balance. That's the guts of it. Problem is there are about a dozen ifs and buts to bike setup and most adjustments have an impact on another.

Then check sag again, but with just the bike's own weight. This is static sag. Static should should be about 10% of travel. If rider sag is set close to correct, but static sag is not enough, then it indicates that your spring is too soft, because you are winding in extra preload to get the correct amount of rider sag. Of you have too much static sag then your spring is too soft.

 

[Emmett]

Quick question about the stealth. I just bought a new 2014 Stealth bomber from a dealer in my hometown. After my first ride Ive came to the conclusion that if I use the throttle for the majority of the ride, I will only average 38 Kms/ 23.75 miles per charge. This is terrible in my opinion and doesn't give me the flexibility I thought I had. Will this get better with time ? Could this be due to the fact that it has been sitting around on the shop floor for a year doing nothing ?

Probably and hopefully, yes.

I have a 2014 Fighter. The displays says I get close to 950 Wh from one battery charge. Distance will vary. I never look at it. But the maximum Wh is very consistent. Earlier this year there was a period where I could not ride the bike for 5 weeks, and when I got back on it I noticed a lot of power loss. At first I thought I'd damaged my hub motor because I had it apart. But with more use the power came back! It took about 3 or 4 full power cycles before it started to feel normal.

Voltage was always fine. 58 to 59V charged, and even when taken out of storage the battery volts was still around 56V. I suspect that after a period of storage the battery cannot pump out the same peak amps.

I'm storing the bike at present for a 3 week block. This time I left the battery with about 70% charge. I'll top it up before my next ride, and see how the power feels.

If riding regularly I try to avoid running it totally flat, and fully charge it when back home. So I monitor the Wh and try to avoid going past 900. I give it some time to cool before charging, but I'm not sure it's that's best of if I should charge it immediately.

If I run it totally flat, sometimes it wont going into charge mode unless I do a BMS reset (disconnect the main power plug). No idea why. I guess maybe the heat in the battery after a ride with high load.

 

[spinningmagnets]

The discussion comparing the price and features of HPC bikes to Stealth products has been moved to here:

"Compare HPC ebikes to Stealth"
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=68656

 

[proper159]

Hey Guys,

Kind of an off topic post but figured I'd give the Stealth community first dibs. So I've been riding my Bomber for almost 2 years and loving the entire experience. I find a lot of the die-hards are pretty technical I'm doing some consulting for an agency in Toronto, Canada and I need to find 4 tech-centric individuals who have an active Twitter profile, located in New York, Los Angeles, Berlin (Dlogic?) and/or Tokyo, Hong Kong, Singapore and a few other cities for a hashtag sponsorship. The individual will have to be under 30 years old.

Anyone interested send me a PM.

Thanks,

Bruce

 

[Jimboyr6]

Well that went crazy very quickly
Wrong bike wrong thread
Back to the real deal stealths

 

[bigbore]

This morning I had the second flat on the front tyre in one week. In the trails near my home there are brambles, I try to avoid them as much as I can but sometime I ride over them. So a colleague of mine doing downhill suggested this product that I bought:
http://www.amazon.it/dp/B007D1QRME/ref=pe_386201_51767741_TE_dp_1

Anybody tried it or have experience with similar products?

 

[Theodore Voltaire]

This is the deal with weight. A 50 mph bike with brakes capable of locking both wheels when leaned over in turns, with a 230lb rider on board better weight at least 100 lbs or someone is going to get hurt badly.

Once upon a time I had a Honda S90 that went 48 mph, and weighted 200 lbs. The drum brakes were kind of like suggestions to slow the bike down. It had a steel monocoque frame, but it was a cheap stamping compared to Stealth's very strong, well thought out, but time consuming to build welded plate design. The Honda felt like a limp dick in a turn even though the brakes couldn't put a lot of force into the frame, and I only weighed about 140 lb back then.

Unless very expensive exotic materials are employed, all 50 mph bikes are going to weight a least 100 lb, or else they're going to feel flimsy and wobbly in turns, especially under hard braking, and with my 230 fat ass riding it, forget it. Most people coming from a bicycle experience can't grasp this concept.

Anyone can take a bicycle and slap a big motor on it and go 50 mph, but death isn't something you want to play with. All experienced motorcycle riders know this, because we all have friends that died on their bikes. I don't want to be one of them. I ride a Stealth.

 

[proper159]

Does anyone get water affecting their motor connection from the rear instead of splash on the Hal sensor connection? I have my Hal sensor fully taped up and rode all winter without any electrical issues. When it rained the other day, the ground was really wet and within 14 km, I got the dreaded motor stopping/chugging along. I'm about to make my Hal sensor into a waterproof one (I believe the same one Allex has), but someone told me that I should make a small cut in the cable leading from the rear axle so that water can drain out and not collect all the way back to the Hal sensor.

After riding really hard core all winter, I'm in the process of doing a spring tune up since I've now lost all my initial Torque (I believe it might be moisture somewhere in my cables). You guys notice the motor cutting out due to water even though your Hal sensor is all sealed/waterproof?

 

[Theodore Voltaire]

Does anyone get water affecting their motor connection from the rear instead of splash on the Hal sensor connection? I have my Hal sensor fully taped up and rode all winter without any electrical issues. When it rained the other day, the ground was really wet and within 14 km, I got the dreaded motor stopping/chugging along. I'm about to make my Hal sensor into a waterproof one (I believe the same one Allex has), but someone told me that I should make a small cut in the cable leading from the rear axle so that water can drain out and not collect all the way back to the Hal sensor.

After riding really hard core all winter, I'm in the process of doing a spring tune up since I've now lost all my initial Torque (I believe it might be moisture somewhere in my cables). You guys notice the motor cutting out due to water even though your Hal sensor is all sealed/waterproof?

My feeling is it's not water getting into the plug. It's probably water running down onto the top side of the plug and shorting it out.

I get that issue from washing my bike with a hose. I definitely think a waterproof plug will solve the problem, but since I try to never ride in the rain, and now have learned how to wash my bike better I haven't felt the need to do anything about it. If I did, I would lengthen the wires and move the plug to under the swing arm so it's easier to get to when changing a tire.