Easy battery pack soldering method

c_4

1 mW
Joined
Apr 21, 2007
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14
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Canada
The biggest problem with assembling custom battery packs has always been that the stainless steel terminals and cases of cells are very difficult to solder; there are special solders and fluxes available, but they typically also require higher heat, which has greater potential to damage the cells; there has been a lot of work devoted to developing inexpensive methods to spot weld the batteries together, but I think I've come across a reasonably easy procedure that allows you to use regular old rosin-flux solder to attach wires to a stainless battery quickly and with minimal risk of heat damage. I don't recall reading about anyone else using this technique, so I thought I'd share it..

What's the trick? Very simple, I copper plate the terminals first.. What you'll need is a bottle of copper plating solution from the craft/hobby store (basically just a solution of copper sulfate) and some fine sandpaper for metal. First pour out a bit of the solution and get a cotton swab ready, then gently sand each of the battery terminals, and quickly apply the plating solution to the freshly abraded stainless steel.. Some battery bodies may have some additional plating or some other surface treatment applied, so if it doesn't work right away, sand down some more and try again: once you get past the surface treatment and apply the solution, the steel surface will instantly turn a copper color.. Do this to every battery and then heat up your soldering iron and once it is good and hot, you can quickly tin each terminal- you can go very quickly and the solder will wet out the copper plated surface instantly so there should be no issues with heat damage (you can quickly quench each cell with a damp rag if you're worried, but all the cells I did were just barely warm to the touch just seconds after tinning). Once this is done, mount the batteries in whatever jig you want and cut out wires or braid or whatever you choose to use to connect the batteries together, then tin this stuff, and lay it down on the battery, and quickly touch your iron to it- it takes less than a second per joint and it is well wetted out and not prone to failure like most attempts to solder onto bare stainless steel..

I haven't applied this method to e-bike batteries yet, but I recently rebuilt a couple of dead cordless drill battery packs with new cells and the most tedious part of the job was all the sanding of the terminals, but once the battery ends were copper plated, the soldering was incredibly fast and easy, and the reassembled battery packs were better than new (higher capacity cells than the originals)..
 
:cry: I plead guilty to killing another A123 M1 cell on Pack A with a 100 watt soldering iron. It's my first time killing a cell with heat.

I'm mentally preparing to rebuild Packs B & C, they are currently loosely duct taped inside my Crystalyte quick release case. I will tear out the M1 cardboard sleeves of each cell and wrap each of them in heat shrink tubing, then hot glue them as a solid pack like I did with Pack A. This means I'll need to cut the original tabs or maybe tear them out altogether and solder copper tabs again. So you methods will come in handy.

Thanks for the great tips! :D

J+
 
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If you had flat terminals this idea in concept could be an alternative or something similar.
 
I had to solder a 30 amp plastic switch to thick 50 amp DC power cable 5mm copper core with a 80 watt iron and I did go through a few switches trying to nail it.

Meltin plastix :oops:

My best effort and success was to have a bowl of cool water to dunk the whole job in it asap. Using heavy gauge cable is a killer as it sucks up and holds tons of heat, if it's cooled fast it can draw the heat out of your terminals.

Maybe even cool the cable in the freezer before soldering and heat up the end you want to do just before you go.
 
The copper plateing idea is very interesting! I never thought of doing that. Normally when I've played with CuSO4 on steel, the copper coating can simply be wiped off the surface of the steel with a brush of the finger. Does this solution you're using adhere better? Have you tried stressing a joint to see what happens? If the solder bonds to the layer of copper, and the copper is weakly bonded to the steel, it seems that could be a problem. But, if the copper simply lets the solder wet the steel surface, and bonds to the steel, that is fantastic!






317537 said:
I had to solder a 30 amp plastic switch to thick 50 amp DC power cable 5mm copper core with a 80 watt iron and I did go through a few switches trying to nail it.

Meltin plastix :oops:

My best effort and success was to have a bowl of cool water to dunk the whole job in it asap. Using heavy gauge cable is a killer as it sucks up and holds tons of heat, if it's cooled fast it can draw the heat out of your terminals.

Maybe even cool the cable in the freezer before soldering and heat up the end you want to do just before you go.


All aboard the failboat! :p I will help you out.


If the surfaces will take a tinning, you can solder any sized anything to anything with no fooling around with the right iron and proper technique. I solder 4awg leads onto the 0.125x0.125 tabs on a plastic deans connector all the time.

Tin both surfaces. As with all wire to anything soldering, they MUST be tinned first, or you're wasting your time. You need to have a clean tip, and the big cable strands you want to tin need to be bundled tight, and cut off evenly. If it's a frayed mess, you can't make strong thermal contact between the tip and the strands without overheating some strands so the surface oxidizes, while others are too cold to tin. Get your clean iron tip hot, as hot as you can get it for big cables. Get the cable resting against something that is a poor conductor, but won't melt (I use a little block of wood with a pass of kapton tape over the top.)
Hit the iron to the cable with a lot of pressure. You need quality irons for this, because the wimpy stuff has the tips come loose or snap off. Touch your solder to the exposed end. The moment it reaches the solder melting point, feed it rapidly enough that melting the incomming solder feed is absorbing the thermal energy from the wire. Take the heat away the moment the solder relaxes in the tip of the wire. Keep pushing solder at the wire, so the latent heat of fusion of the solder melting acts as the heatsink. If you do this right, you can tin just the first 1/8th of the cable, and have zero wicking. If you wick, you've made a fragile point for a wire to crack = fail. Now tin the tab you wish to solder. It makes no difference how big the cable is, or how small the tab you wish to solder happens to be if you do the next step correctly. The tinned end on your cable acts as an excellent thermal conductor. Put a little solder on your tip to increase the wetted surface contact area. Somehow bind the cable to be still (if you've got crazy skills, you can hold it between your knees, or sit on the floor and hold it with your feet). Put your solder away, as it's never used when you're making a connection. Apply heat to the object with the most thermal mass, in our case that means the cable. Apply heat only to the tinned end area, and apply it with as much pressure as possible to ensure a rapid heat transfer, once it softens, poke the tinned switch terminal to the back side of that iron, it should melt in about 1 second if you're doing it right. Pull the iron out, and push them together as you wish them to be connected. The extra second of heat that the cable got while the switch tab was heating up is the energy that keeps things from becomming a cold solder joint as they would normally be if you had only applied the heat needed to tin the cable and pulled away. If you wiggle it during the cooling stage, cut it off and start over. If the solder looks grey rather than wet and shiny after it cools, cut it off and start over. Don't bother trying to re-use that same tinned end of the cable, because it's going to end up wicking when it's re-heated.

With any soldering, if any process takes more than 5 seconds or so, you're doing it wrong, and you're going to end up with a wicked connection that breaks.
 
Yea the smaller the switch the easier. The switch Iused had wide copper blades for slip on's and very easy melt plastic not designed for soldering. Clean tip, big or small iron the blades would melt the plastic just enough so the blade wobbled in its mold. Even a little tiny wobble = failure.

Ive never had any luck soldering stainless, 25 years soldering stuff now and it still fails on an ionic level. You can make it look like its worked and mechanically its fine and well but electrically is a different boat of failure. Put some good current through the contacts and it will come appart sooner or latter.

Filling and sanding stainless just gives solder foot holds to grab onto.
 
I guess the major drawback to soldering high current contacts is that the contact is designed primarily for high electrical conductivity and low resistance which are the two things that heat just loves.

People are always saying 5 seconds and stuff but many have problems keeping to the rules when all the heat is being dragged into the battery allowing all the other parts to gather heat. Soldering battery terminals is risky business for anyone and I just don’t do it anymore.

Ive had good solders last ages and just one of them give up the ghost making life hell in a series string, the heat power produces through a bad connection saps the cell way below the others. Its not a healthy practice for batteries and IMO should be avoided unless necessary or the contacts are made of copper and or designed for soldering.


Using addition cooling approaches like water and or cooling you job before is not a bad idea as it give the worker a window for error which could happen at any time and does minimise the damage after you have done the work and also allows for higher temperatures to enure the ionic contact is thorough..

Ive even used a cup of water and as soon as the solder goes stiff I soak it. The solder stays shiney and good.


When i do zener balancers for my SLAS I dont like having the long terminals on the components so I solder right up to the package and this would damage the zener nearly every time. They get soaked and Ive always had zener balancers that last.
 
http://www.mgchemicals.com/products/402a.html


Canned AIr :lol:

402a-285g.jpg


For those jobs that are sensitive to H2O you could use the stuff we use to clean out CPU heat sinks and crap.


Really, cooling your soldering can only enhance the way you can do things. You "can" solder things bigger and better than without.
 
The intermetallic layer formed in the solder joint is typically thicker than the copper plate, so what I believe happens is that the copper plating itself gets integrated into the joint and the effective bond is made between the wire and the steel, the copper more or less acts like a flux or wetting agent for lack of a better term.. The solder completely wets out the steel surface after plating and forms a very strong joint- pulling, scraping, hammering, etc will not dislodge it.. If you're doing very high current loads, I'd probably use wide brass/copper strips vs. stranded/braided wire; again tin the battery, then tin the wire/strip and then just a brief application of heat should bond the two together; do not try to solder bare wire onto the plated battery without first tinning both parts because you need a lot more time and heat.
 
c_4 said:
The intermetallic layer formed in the solder joint is typically thicker than the copper plate, so what I believe happens is that the copper plating itself gets integrated into the joint and the effective bond is made between the wire and the steel, the copper more or less acts like a flux or wetting agent for lack of a better term.. The solder completely wets out the steel surface after plating and forms a very strong joint- pulling, scraping, hammering, etc will not dislodge it.. If you're doing very high current loads, I'd probably use wide brass/copper strips vs. stranded/braided wire; again tin the battery, then tin the wire/strip and then just a brief application of heat should bond the two together; do not try to solder bare wire onto the plated battery without first tinning both parts because you need a lot more time and heat.


That's outstanding news that it sticks firmly to the base metal :) I was hoping that it would just help to wet the surface.

Great solution to soldering stainless :)

Would you mind trying your luck on a bit of aluminum with it?

Thanks!
-Luke
 
Most of the cells I've tried are actually nickel on the ends and solder easily.

On stainless steel, you can get a good direct solder joint if you use the right flux. They make special flux for this, but I've found the rosin flux in most solders will poison the chemistry, so it works best to use solder with no flux core. Silver bearing solder is the strongest on stainless. If you can tin it with the silver solder/ SS flux, then regular solder will stick to that nicely.

Interesting idea with the copper plating. I've never tried that approach.

I use a wet rag to cool the joint after it solidifies.
 
Interesting Idea.
I've had the same problem liveforphysics did and could never get the copper to adhear to a ferrous metal, but a Plating of Nickle first would let the copper plate properly.

As for soldering to stainless, its easy enough. you need a solid core 60/40 tin/lead solder and a Phosphoric acid based flux. Like Aluminum, you also want to brush off the surface layer of oxidation or nothing will stick.
 
c_4 said:
The intermetallic layer formed in the solder joint is typically thicker than the copper plate, so what I believe happens is that the copper plating itself gets integrated into the joint and the effective bond is made between the wire and the steel, the copper more or less acts like a flux or wetting agent for lack of a better term..
In a "proper" solder joint, that is indeed what is supposed to happen: the copper and solder become a new alloy. :)
 
317537 said:
Canned AIr :lol:
402a-285g.jpg

For those jobs that are sensitive to H2O you could use the stuff we use to clean out CPU heat sinks and crap.
Really, cooling your soldering can only enhance the way you can do things. You "can" solder things bigger and better than without.

That is a good way to do it, or you could just turn a can of that stuff upside-down and let the cold *CO2 frost the joint :lol:
 
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