EBike definition, and interpreting the law

[rdvi5]

In Ontario/Canada, the definition of an ebike is...

-Has a maximum weight of 120 kg (includes the weight of bike and battery);
-Has wheels with a diameter of at least 350 mm and width of at least 35 mm; and
-Meets the federal definition of a power-assisted bicycle:

-has steering handlebars and is equipped with pedals,
-is designed to travel on not more than three wheels in contact with the ground,
-is capable of being propelled by muscular power,
-has one or more electric motors that have, singly or in combination, the following characteristics:
-it has a total continuous power output rating, measured at the shaft of each motor, of 500 W or less,
-if it is engaged by the use of muscular power, power assistance immediately ceases when the muscular power ceases,
-if it is engaged by the use of an accelerator controller, power assistance immediately ceases when the brakes are applied, and
-it is incapable of providing further assistance when the bicycle attains a speed of 32 km/h on level ground,
-bears a label that is permanently affixed by the manufacturer and appears in a conspicuous location stating, in both official
languages, that the vehicle is a power-assisted bicycle as defined federally, and
-has one of the following safety features,
-an enabling mechanism to turn the electric motor on and off that is separate from the accelerator controller
and fitted in such a manner that it is operable by the driver, or
-a mechanism that prevents the motor from being engaged before the bicycle attains 3 km/hr.



So what if your bike does not comply with the definition eg. suppose you not have the label indicating the ebike meets regulation? Does that mean it is not considered an ebike? If not an ebike, does it automatically become a motorized vehicle ie. a moped, requiring a license plate and insurance? The penalty for driving a motorized vehicle without insurance is a minimum $6250 fine for a first offense, $12500 for a second offense. If you are pulled-over and the cop dislikes you for any reason, would you be facing heavy fines if your bike did not comply with the ebike definition "exactly"?

What happens if you are building your own DIY ebike? Even if you intend to comply with the power and speed limitations, how do you get the required label? I have not heard there are test facilities where you can bring a DIY bike to get the label. Does that mean DIY ebikes are not legally permitted under any circumstances?

 

[veloman]

Here in the US, at least, I don't think any ebikers are being hassled about confirming 100% to the definitions. I wouldn't worry too much, as long as you don't ride to bring attention to yourself and are safe. I'm not really sure how the police treat ebikers up there though.

If you meet everything but the sticker, I can't imagine that you would be hassled if stopped. That would be ridiculous.

 

[Chalo]

I'm imagining someone being ticketed and having their bike impounded because it has 32mm tires. :lol:

Chalo

 

[dogman dan]

Personally, I wouldn't bother with an ebike in Ontario. Apparently illegal to buy anything but certian brands of pre built. That is, if you can even find one that meets that labeling law.

What a crock to have to comply with all that. Particularly those levels of fines!

At least they gave you 32 kph though, 20 mph. Still stupidly slow when a pedaler can easily reach 30.

 

[Chalo]

At least they gave you 32 kph though, 20 mph. Still stupidly slow when a pedaler can easily reach 30.

A 20mph e-bike can reach 30mph by the exact same means! Just pedal like hell; what's the matter with you? If you can't do it on an e-bike, you probably can't do it on a pushbike either, so it's an irrelevant point.

I agree about the apparent stupidity of Ontario e-bike rules. I'd say get an approved model or just go for a Japanese made gas scooter instead.

Chalo

 

[dogman dan]

My point is, they limit an ebike to 20 mph for safety, when every teen in town easily pedals around at 30. Just seems wierd not to allow what the many bikes I've ridden seem very comfortable at , 30 mph. Up to 30, tires and brakes and handling are generally adequate.

So what's the rationale for 20? fear of a battery? Weight? No limit on peoples fat asses.

Ok, I'm old, I'm out of shape, and now I have chronic fatique from a west nile infection. Obviosly I now must be protected from riding at 30 mph since I'm no longer a teen with too much sperm energy? Why is it now unsafe for me to exceed 20 mph because I'm a slob now?

Must be that 50 years of two wheeling it makes me unexperienced and a big risk if I go faster than 20mph on two wheels.

By the way, ever tried to pedal a direct drive 10 mph faster than it's normal top speed? Welcome to cogging bro. Give it your best. It's why dd motors descend steep hills nice, they simply won't go faster.

 

[liveforphysics]

I feel like I've never ridden more dangerously than after getting my skinny tire pedal power road bike. Down the hills full tuck at whatever speed gravity takes me, then trying to get slowed down on these garbage feel rim brakes before taking corners with the bike tires just skipping and chattering over ever imperfection in the road surface. It's definitely fun and exciting, and I enjoy the experience and the workout, but I gotta say my ebike feels like a radically safer method to get from point A to B, even if my average speed for the trip is 4x higher than on the pedal bike.

I really don't understand why they impose only normal road speed limits on my skinny tire road bike zooming down the highway hills at 50mph, tires just skipping and feeling like its all going to snap in half at any second, and needing a massive stopping distance to get slowed down with these terrible brakes and high center of gravity. I don't think I've ever ridden any ebike in any state of poor repair that was less high speed worthy than my twitchy lightweight road bike, yet the road bike has no speed limits and the ebikes do.

 

[veloman]

Don't forget how you are a road obstruction when going 8 mph uphill on a pedal bike.


The reality is that laws are written by people who have no experience dealing with what they are writing about. Here we have *the* urban transportation solution for so many problems, and it's illegal at most safe, reasonable transportation speeds.

I see how the people think where I am, the city officials, bike advocates, hipsters. I've been where they are going. Yeah, yeah, pedaling is novel and healthy. But ebikes are the realistic choice.

 

[Chalo]

Yeah, yeah, pedaling is novel and healthy. But ebikes are the realistic choice.

You're skipping ahead to when we have batteries that don't suck.

 

[Chalo]

My point is, they limit an ebike to 20 mph for safety, when every teen in town easily pedals around at 30. Just seems wierd not to allow what the many bikes I've ridden seem very comfortable at , 30 mph. Up to 30, tires and brakes and handling are generally adequate.

And on any e-bike, you can pedal or downhill to 30mph or whatever speed you have the gumption for. Don't treat the free pass for your motor as a limitation; it's a bonus. It means you can go 20mph without license or registration and without expending any effort whatsoever. If you want to go faster, go faster. That's what the pedals are for.

Chalo

 

[dogman dan]

Works with a gearmotor, doesn't with a dd so well. In any case, I get a legal 30 mph in my state lucky me. Even 25 limits would be pretty reasonable. I just think they more or less threw a dart and came up with 20 mph.

Could be worse though, as is most of europe and australia. What shocked me about Ontario was the fines ! Holy crap I'd hate to be riding along at 18 mph trying to save some money and then get slapped with that for lack of a damn decal on the frame.

 

[Jeremy Harris]

Works with a gearmotor, doesn't with a dd so well. In any case, I get a legal 30 mph in my state lucky me. Even 25 limits would be pretty reasonable. I just think they more or less threw a dart and came up with 20 mph.

Could be worse though, as is most of europe and australia. What shocked me about Ontario was the fines ! Holy crap I'd hate to be riding along at 18 mph trying to save some money and then get slapped with that for lack of a damn decal on the frame.

There's only a maximum power assist speed limit in Europe, not a maximum bike speed. As long as the bike won't drive under power at more than 25 kmh then that's fine; there's nothing to stop you pedalling faster than this (other than normal speed limits).

 

[Punx0r]

And on any e-bike, you can pedal or downhill to 30mph or whatever speed you have the gumption for.

As mentioned, a DD motor rotating faster than that it normally wants is a brake!

My bike does 27mph on the level, increasing to 30-31mph. Pedalling for all I'm worth, with motor at full throttle, I can get 30mph on the level and 32-33mph downhill. Just coasting on a regular bike I'd be hitting 35mph on these hills.

 

[veloman]

I'm not so against registration for my ebike, but even if I had turn signals and all that, they still wouldn't let me. And yes, I do believe I should be entitled to both the bike lane and the travel lane - whichever is safest and lets me procede. Current culture/law says that is not right for a low speed motor vehicle.

As for dropping my ebike and getting a scooter/moped to be able to register and legally go 25-30mph - forget it. The ebike is vastly more efficient and more affordable, cleaner, less maintenance, more fun, transportable and so on.

In my old state - CT, anything under 50cc or equivalent was allowed on roads with no license, registration, insurance - just like a bicycle. If it works there, why can't it work elsewhere? There weren't reckless speed demon scooters causing accidents or other problems. Instead, they were an economical option without the red tape, since they weren't highway vehicles. I'm sure you could ride an ebike every day there at 30mph and never have a problem.

 

[veloman]

Yeah, yeah, pedaling is novel and healthy. But ebikes are the realistic choice.

You're skipping ahead to when we have batteries that don't suck.

It's all relative. Batteries now are good enough for ebikes. Sure there is lots of room for improvement, but it's not like 10 years ago when we'd all be on SLA or ni-cads.

 

[cal3thousand]

I'm not so against registration for my ebike, but even if I had turn signals and all that, they still wouldn't let me. And yes, I do believe I should be entitled to both the bike lane and the travel lane - whichever is safest and lets me procede. Current culture/law says that is not right for a low speed motor vehicle.

As for dropping my ebike and getting a scooter/moped to be able to register and legally go 25-30mph - forget it. The ebike is vastly more efficient and more affordable, cleaner, less maintenance, more fun, transportable and so on.

In my old state - CT, anything under 50cc or equivalent was allowed on roads with no license, registration, insurance - just like a bicycle. If it works there, why can't it work elsewhere? There weren't reckless speed demon scooters causing accidents or other problems. Instead, they were an economical option without the red tape, since they weren't highway vehicles. I'm sure you could ride an ebike every day there at 30mph and never have a problem.

I just saw some sign on the back of a bus in Santa Monica (California) advertising that bikers have the right to the full lane and Bike Lane Sharing Arrows or "Sharrows" will be showing up on the ground to remind drivers that bikers have right to the full lane.

I purposely use the full lane to make sure I don't get "door zoned" and that drivers get accustomed to bikers occupying the full lane.

 

[Trick]

Hi all, my first post here, but have enjoyed the forum for many years.
I have been riding my 'ownmade' e-bike for six years in southern Ontario with no problems. Since before it became 'law'.
After reading this thread, I thought I would attemp to answer rdvi5's concerns.
Q."So what if your bike does not comply with the definition eg. suppose you not have the label indicating the ebike meets regulation?"
A. Make it comlpy with the definition and you can classify it as an e-bike. Yes, to comply, it needs a label.

Q. "What happens if you are building your own DIY ebike? Even if you intend to comply with the power and speed limitations, how do you get the required label?"
A. You are the manufacturer of the e-bike, you supply the label. ie. print one up like I did. As long as you can demonstrate that the bike complies with the reg's, you're ok. In fact the only thing that a cop should be looking for is the label, because that tells him what classification of vehicle that he's dealing with. And tells him that the bike does comply.

About "the fines". rdvi5 said "The penalty for driving a motorized vehicle without insurance is a minimum $6250 fine for a first offense"
That penalty has nothing to do with e-bikes. E-bikes are not motorized, registered, or insured.

As veloman said, if you ride right and ride safe, you're ok. At least thats been my experience with Waterloo region's finest. I was 'paced' by a cop, once for about 1/2 km thru rush hour traffic. He found something better to do.

 

[veloman]

we have sharrows and signs that say "bikes may use full lane" in some areas, and they help. Drivers are pretty good here. But it really depends on the area. Bike heavy areas are significantly more friendly.

 

[Chalo]

In my old state - CT, anything under 50cc or equivalent was allowed on roads with no license, registration, insurance - just like a bicycle. If it works there, why can't it work elsewhere? There weren't reckless speed demon scooters causing accidents or other problems. Instead, they were an economical option without the red tape, since they weren't highway vehicles. I'm sure you could ride an ebike every day there at 30mph and never have a problem.

E-bikes in CT were allowed 25mph the last time I checked.

I have no quarrel with any law like "everything under 5hp free" or whatever. What I have a problem with is e-moped riders thinking they are more privileged than moped riders, or e-motorcyclists thinking they don't have any of the obligations of motorcyclists. A motorcycle is not a bicycle just because it runs on a battery instead of a fuel tank. We all know the performance profile of a bicycle, and 30+mph steady for an hour ain't it.

Chalo

 

[dogman dan]

Yes, don't build your illegal unregistered uninsured motorcycle using a bike frame, and expect to be treated like you ride a bike. Whatever the law is where you live, you gotta accept that. You gotta deal with the fine if the law gets you. You might have to leave the pedals on that shitty scooter.

It was bike performance to do 30mph for an hour when I was 15-18 though. I'd go years without ever shifting out of 52-11, and rarely used the seat. The summer I was 14, I rode from Santa Fe to the Ski area daily, and weighed only 115. After that summer, for years a flat road seemed like downhill. Once my weight hit 130, it was all over.

But yeah, 30 mph for a mile is not normal for most. But the local racers do it daily. They pass me on my commuter all the time, because my commuter goes only 27 mph. Always this same goddess up front breaking the wind. They don't pass me with anybody else leading the train. She'll do 30 mph all day.

Mostly I'm just trying to make the point that safety is not really the issue with 20-30 mph. Even the cheapest bikes can generally handle it in terms of tires, brakes, and frame strength. Something bugs me aobut it, when they say " it's not safe to ride an ebike above 20 mph" That's the hogwash I mean. Yes, there are places like multi use bike paths that should have a speed limit. Some should be posted 5mph, such as Pacific Beach boardwalk in San Diego.

So if needed, have posted speed limits for ALL vehicles on that path.

Back on the real topic. If making your own label is legal, great. I thought it was like Florida, where guys wanting to register scooters ran into all this catch 22 crap. Some list of scooters your scoot had to be on, which hadn't been updated in about 20 years or so. So even having a vin number, they were still screwed. I could see the Ontario law being a deal where nearly no ready made ebikes even comply. What's permanently attached? welded on? riveted on? a sticker?

But if you build an illegal bike, then you would be subject to that no insurance fine. 40 mph club, and you better not get caught, that's for sure.

 

[Punx0r]

Always this same goddess up front breaking the wind. They don't pass me with anybody else leading the train. She'll do 30 mph all day.

Pics!

 

[amberwolf]

And on any e-bike, you can pedal or downhill to 30mph or whatever speed you have the gumption for. Don't treat the free pass for your motor as a limitation; it's a bonus. It means you can go 20mph without license or registration and without expending any effort whatsoever. If you want to go faster, go faster. That's what the pedals are for.

That depends on how they interpret the local definition/rules. Here in AZ, an ebike (or other assisted bike/trike) can only be "operated under 20MPH"; there are no exceptions for pedalling it faster or if you are going down hill, uphill, or with a hurricane at your back.
http://azbikelaw.org/blog/moped-and-motorized-bicycles-in-arizona/

Some places do have such exceptions, describing the limits as being for flat level surfaces, but there's no such disclaimer in our rules.

In Tucson, they were recently (past few months?) having enforcement start at even less than 21mph regardless of other conditions, though it is AFAIK the gasser bikes that are being hassled (and it could have stopped by now; I haven't followed the news on it).

I haven't been hassled, even when on CrazyBike2 or the Fusin Test Bike, I have acclerated very quickly (wihtout pedalling usually, because of my knees) to as much as 24MPH to get across traffic lanes to make a left turn, before dense fast traffic arrives to make it unsafe for me to do so, in full view of officers in radar-equipped vehicles. But I am also following all safe road use rules and "common sense", and I suspect that those being hassled about it are not being safe about it.

I also coasted CrazyBike2 downhill on 7th St North Mountain northbound, way back before I motorized it, at 39.something MPH (call it 40), just about keeping up with traffic, as a test of the bike, and had no issues there, either. I might not have issues doing that now, even, but as the tickets and fees for doing so are rather high (starting at four digits), I'd rather not risk it.