ebike range on full charge
- Thread starter polskiski
- Start date
LockH
1 PW
Ummm... Sorta unlimited range (2x 12V SLA batts. No pedals on the kick scooter.) `Course, that was down a looong hill, though batt pack was still almost fully charged by the bottom of the hill.
Hope that helps!
L
Hope that helps!
L
Yeah I would imagine so. Even a skateboard gets unlimited range as long its going down hill. What im looking for is what fellow ebikers get in riding range based on the setup and speed.
In my case im in a process of setting up my diamondback edgewood 700c hybrid with a crystalyte 4840 hs kit with a 20ah lifepo4 from electricrider.com
Just wondering what others have and what is the most efficient speed for range that they have experienced.
In my case im in a process of setting up my diamondback edgewood 700c hybrid with a crystalyte 4840 hs kit with a 20ah lifepo4 from electricrider.com
Just wondering what others have and what is the most efficient speed for range that they have experienced.
liveforphysics
100 TW
The data you're looking for involves understanding the Wh/Mile of various ebike drivetrains. We've got threads up the wazzu on this topic, complete with large participation polls and graphs etc.
byebyepetrol
100 W
Just did 60km in fresh headwinds and lots of hills.
10Ah pack, 36v 250w.
Pedal assisted,used varying levels of assist and maybe 10mins of
pure electric on the flats to give the legs a rest.
I guess I contributed 30-50% propulsion.
10Ah pack, 36v 250w.
Pedal assisted,used varying levels of assist and maybe 10mins of
pure electric on the flats to give the legs a rest.
I guess I contributed 30-50% propulsion.
Matt Gruber
1 MW
hook up a DVM and check the amp draw or voltage sag as you ride around. This lets you learn how wind, hills, speed, pedaling, etc effect your range.
LockH
1 PW
I noticed significant range improvement with a tailwind (hoisting the sail maybe helped also).
Eskimo
1 kW
Range is very much about speed you use, If you ride around 20-25 km/h with regular cyclist group on tour you can go a long way. On your own maybe half of that.
My best with 10 Ah 48V-pack is 95 kilometres, on tour with a group, that maybe decreased my drag a little too. On my own i can kill that same pack on 40 kilometres.
My best with 10 Ah 48V-pack is 95 kilometres, on tour with a group, that maybe decreased my drag a little too. On my own i can kill that same pack on 40 kilometres.
At speeds up to about 22mph, pedalling has a significant affect on range. The slower you go, the greater the proportion of power from the pedals. At 10mph, most of the power comes from pedalling, so you can go a very long way on a 5aH battery. At speeds over 25mph, the contribution from pedalling becomes insignificant on a MTB with normal gearing. naturally, there's guys with light-weight stream-liners that can pedal very hard, but I'm talking about average Joes on average bikes.
In summary, the range people get is determined by how fast they go, how hard they pedal, how heavy they are, the type of journey they do, what type of tyres they have, how stream-lined their bike is and the wind. The type of motor and drive system will make some difference, but IMHO not as significant as the other factors, although it can make a big difference if your system suits your particular journeys and the motor speed matches the speed which you actually go. It's therefore pointless making any comparisons between what people actually achieve, other than to get ball-park figures for planning a build.
The simulator gives a good idea of no-pedalling ranges for higher speed systems, except you have to factor in anything where your journeys are not in the same steady-state of if there's anything different about your bike.
http://www.ebikes.ca/simulator/
In summary, the range people get is determined by how fast they go, how hard they pedal, how heavy they are, the type of journey they do, what type of tyres they have, how stream-lined their bike is and the wind. The type of motor and drive system will make some difference, but IMHO not as significant as the other factors, although it can make a big difference if your system suits your particular journeys and the motor speed matches the speed which you actually go. It's therefore pointless making any comparisons between what people actually achieve, other than to get ball-park figures for planning a build.
The simulator gives a good idea of no-pedalling ranges for higher speed systems, except you have to factor in anything where your journeys are not in the same steady-state of if there's anything different about your bike.
http://www.ebikes.ca/simulator/
dogman dan
1 PW
Dark Angels thread has some good graphs of wh/mi data.
In general, you can be in the 20-30 wh/mi ballpark on regular bikes going 20 mph. Or, you can use my old rules of thumb for 20-25 mph travel. The rule of thumb includes a healthy reserve for making your distance in all weather.
For 36v 1 ah per mile. For 48v .75 ah per mile. This translates into 20 miles of reliable range for a 36v 20 ah pack, or 72v 15 ah pack. That's about the biggest size lifepo4 that conveniently can be carried. My personal best range on such a pack was 39 miles, pedaling a lot at slow speed of course. 30 miles was easy to get when I needed it, by riding about 18 mph.
To get the max range at faster speeds, it's an exercise in how to carry huge batteries. At that point, the cargo bike designed to ride with 50 pounds on board is the ticket. But a price to be paid for that, even at slow speeds like 15 mph, my 150 pound cargo bike drags so much in the wind it gets more like 35 wh/mi. But I can carry a lot of battery on it.
In general, you can be in the 20-30 wh/mi ballpark on regular bikes going 20 mph. Or, you can use my old rules of thumb for 20-25 mph travel. The rule of thumb includes a healthy reserve for making your distance in all weather.
For 36v 1 ah per mile. For 48v .75 ah per mile. This translates into 20 miles of reliable range for a 36v 20 ah pack, or 72v 15 ah pack. That's about the biggest size lifepo4 that conveniently can be carried. My personal best range on such a pack was 39 miles, pedaling a lot at slow speed of course. 30 miles was easy to get when I needed it, by riding about 18 mph.
To get the max range at faster speeds, it's an exercise in how to carry huge batteries. At that point, the cargo bike designed to ride with 50 pounds on board is the ticket. But a price to be paid for that, even at slow speeds like 15 mph, my 150 pound cargo bike drags so much in the wind it gets more like 35 wh/mi. But I can carry a lot of battery on it.
LockH
1 PW
Yes. Although, it may be "bad form" to draft in somebuddys tail wind (if they catch on to watt yer doing).
Eskimo
1 kW
LockH said:
It would be, but i was not talking about anything like that. I was talking about riding with friendly people on a tour.
Last summer i got nicknamed as a "barn" :wink: Because they liked to rest on my vacuum for a while too.
You know, they with their 90-degree forward bent positions and me, tall guy with 90-degree upright cruiser. Like a beacon on a sea.
With a 52v, 18.5ah battery from Cellman, on a regular mountain bike, motor kit from hyena.
After doing my first 1500km, I've learnt the following about my ebike.
If you ride it as a bike with assist you get a LOT more range than riding it like a electrically operated vehicle with pedalling. One way is where you get the motor to assist you in the hard bits, the other is where you assist the motor
Things that use the the most power:-
Accelerating from a stop
From a dead stop, pedal up to at least 15-20kmh before hitting the throttle
Accelerating from any one speed to another
If you are going at 25km/hr and need to speed to 35-40kmh, shift down a gear and pedal up to the speed, then match the throttle to the speed.
Going up hills
You need the most power up hills. So shift down a couple of gears, push up the throttle to give you a boost so it doesn't kill your legs.
Cruising above 40km/h
Even with pedalling, above 40km/h(~25mph), the power requirements from the motor is around 2-2.5x that at 22mph.
Full suspension
This is tricky. Without full suspension you can't go much above 18mph without your butt hurting (on london,uk streets). But with suspension you can go a lot faster but it uses more energy.
I do a daily 38km commute where I'm primarily a cyclist in start/stop traffic, and I get around 1.6Ah (95Wh) for 38km. That's with the above techniques; speed never goes about 35kmh as there's a traffic light every 200m (2.5-4Wh/km)
Outside London where there are fewer traffic lights/longer stretches without stopping, I can go at 40kmh using 300W and pedalling, giving me 5-8Wh/km.
After doing my first 1500km, I've learnt the following about my ebike.
If you ride it as a bike with assist you get a LOT more range than riding it like a electrically operated vehicle with pedalling. One way is where you get the motor to assist you in the hard bits, the other is where you assist the motor
Things that use the the most power:-
Accelerating from a stop
From a dead stop, pedal up to at least 15-20kmh before hitting the throttle
Accelerating from any one speed to another
If you are going at 25km/hr and need to speed to 35-40kmh, shift down a gear and pedal up to the speed, then match the throttle to the speed.
Going up hills
You need the most power up hills. So shift down a couple of gears, push up the throttle to give you a boost so it doesn't kill your legs.
Cruising above 40km/h
Even with pedalling, above 40km/h(~25mph), the power requirements from the motor is around 2-2.5x that at 22mph.
Full suspension
This is tricky. Without full suspension you can't go much above 18mph without your butt hurting (on london,uk streets). But with suspension you can go a lot faster but it uses more energy.
I do a daily 38km commute where I'm primarily a cyclist in start/stop traffic, and I get around 1.6Ah (95Wh) for 38km. That's with the above techniques; speed never goes about 35kmh as there's a traffic light every 200m (2.5-4Wh/km)
Outside London where there are fewer traffic lights/longer stretches without stopping, I can go at 40kmh using 300W and pedalling, giving me 5-8Wh/km.
dogman dan
1 PW
Good summary.
The simplest way I can put it to stretch range is to just say slow down.
Then when riding slower, set a speed, then pedal with moderate but not killing effort to add at least 1 mph more speed. That gets your motor into the best happy place where it's efficiency is maximized, as well as just simply needing less at low speed.
100w from your pedals makes a world of difference, particularly since you waste less power heating the motor.
However, you can pedal your ass off and not put any of that wattage to the road. Clown pedaling in too low a gear for your speed just wastes your energy flapping legs. If really unfit to start with, that's the starting point, till you get fit and can pedal up more speed. If you don't feel pressure on your feet at the pedals, you are just faux pedaling.
The simplest way I can put it to stretch range is to just say slow down.
Then when riding slower, set a speed, then pedal with moderate but not killing effort to add at least 1 mph more speed. That gets your motor into the best happy place where it's efficiency is maximized, as well as just simply needing less at low speed.
100w from your pedals makes a world of difference, particularly since you waste less power heating the motor.
However, you can pedal your ass off and not put any of that wattage to the road. Clown pedaling in too low a gear for your speed just wastes your energy flapping legs. If really unfit to start with, that's the starting point, till you get fit and can pedal up more speed. If you don't feel pressure on your feet at the pedals, you are just faux pedaling.
LockH
1 PW
ronniec95 said:
Ummm... Half-dead old ebiking sailor dude (not to be confused with "dud") wishes to add "head winds" to that list.
L
LockH
1 PW
Eskimo said:
Usually those folks in cars don't EVen notice me (only complain when I keep passing them).
LockH - lol @ headwinds Yeah, they kill speed fast. Umm, maybe I'll get a velomobile next time
One more thing, Heyna sold me a 2KW kit, and the kick from that is seriously awesome. Though you might never need more than 500W riding a round, that feeling of torque with 2Kw in reserve is what makes this more fun than my 650CC motorbike.
Yeah, they kill speed fast. Umm, maybe I'll get a velomobile next time One more thing, Heyna sold me a 2KW kit, and the kick from that is seriously awesome. Though you might never need more than 500W riding a round, that feeling of torque with 2Kw in reserve is what makes this more fun than my 650CC motorbike.
heavymetalthunder
100 W
- Joined
- Oct 7, 2013
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I figure the distance I have to travel and add about 5 miles for detours. I just had this problem on Saturday, I going from my house to Walmart and had to make two detours due to road closures which add about 4 miles to my trip. I rode the distance at usual speed of 26MPH + with some pedaling from the stop lights and some minor flat area for the exercise and made it home with about 3 miles worth of reserve power. 17 total miles traveled on 20ah worth of batteries.
dogman dan
1 PW
That sort of thing, or headwinds, is what you need that reserve for.
All sorts of shit happens. I had a chain break once, and suddenly I was wondering, can I make it at all with no pedaling? I didn't know then. I don't pedal that hard, but I had no idea what my range would be with no pedaling.
All sorts of shit happens. I had a chain break once, and suddenly I was wondering, can I make it at all with no pedaling? I didn't know then. I don't pedal that hard, but I had no idea what my range would be with no pedaling.
edventure
100 W
Hey Polskiski,
I had wondered and asked about this question and the best advice I received to get a conservative estimate was base your Ah requirement on an average usage of 1Ah/mile. My watts per mile are no where near what I see other people get on here. I average about 38 W/mile, but have had it as low as 28 and as high as 48. Two reasons mine is higher is I climb hills for half the ride and two my bike is maxed out for 75% of the ride. Additionally, I have 32 Headway cell wired in a 16S 2P setup or 48V 30Ah. Anyway back to your question, my bike weighs about 100 lbs and I weigh about 170 lbs and I have found it will go about 30 miles before the LVC "low voltage cutout" kicks in. SO this is almost exactly the 1Ah per mile equation that I think Dogman originally recommended to use when I was starting out. I am glad I did, because my ride to work is almost exactly 20 miles and if I only had a 48V 15Ah pack I don't think I would be making it to work. I think my situation is a bit extreme, but it if you use the 1Ah per mile rule of thumb you probably won't go wrong and if you have a little reserve capacity that just means you will extend the life of your cells.
Good Luck,
Ed
I had wondered and asked about this question and the best advice I received to get a conservative estimate was base your Ah requirement on an average usage of 1Ah/mile. My watts per mile are no where near what I see other people get on here. I average about 38 W/mile, but have had it as low as 28 and as high as 48. Two reasons mine is higher is I climb hills for half the ride and two my bike is maxed out for 75% of the ride. Additionally, I have 32 Headway cell wired in a 16S 2P setup or 48V 30Ah. Anyway back to your question, my bike weighs about 100 lbs and I weigh about 170 lbs and I have found it will go about 30 miles before the LVC "low voltage cutout" kicks in. SO this is almost exactly the 1Ah per mile equation that I think Dogman originally recommended to use when I was starting out. I am glad I did, because my ride to work is almost exactly 20 miles and if I only had a 48V 15Ah pack I don't think I would be making it to work. I think my situation is a bit extreme, but it if you use the 1Ah per mile rule of thumb you probably won't go wrong and if you have a little reserve capacity that just means you will extend the life of your cells.
Good Luck,
Ed
dogman dan
1 PW
1ah per mile has been my rule for 36v. .75 ah per mile for 48v.
That's running no faster than 25 mph, and includes a small reserve for cold days, windy days, days you don't feel like pedaling at all.
Of course, you get much better than that if you run slower. if you run 20 mph usually, you will be amazed how much farther you go by riding just 18 mph.
That's running no faster than 25 mph, and includes a small reserve for cold days, windy days, days you don't feel like pedaling at all.
Of course, you get much better than that if you run slower. if you run 20 mph usually, you will be amazed how much farther you go by riding just 18 mph.
So I finally got my ebike kit from electricrider.com. its a Phoenix cruiser 48v 40amp with 20ah lifepo4 battery and cycleanalyst. So far I really like it. Its fast, really fast. I did 35miles/hour which I think is way to fast for a bicycle. What I was wondering about more then speed was the range. With a fully charged battery i went for a ride. Soon I found out I rather peddle assist than have the motor do all the work. Its just more fun that way. With the 21 speed setup on my bike its easy to peddal assist and keep up 20mph. I noticed that with the peddal assist i was able to stay in 150w range. At the end of my 25 mile trip i only used 3.16ah. I thought that was amazing. From what i read i understand with lifepo4 batteries deep cycles are 72%-98%. Deep cycles give about 2000 cycles. So if i use no more then 70% of the battery (14ah ) then the battery life gets extended to potentially 10,000 cycles. @ 14ah I could potentially do about 110 miles with me pedal assisting.
Only time will tell how long the battery will last. And I will study up on lifepo4 technology to make sure i get the most cycles i can out of it. Will do another ride to confirm the numbers. So far im loving it. Only thing i will change is the battery place. I will frame mount it.
Only time will tell how long the battery will last. And I will study up on lifepo4 technology to make sure i get the most cycles i can out of it. Will do another ride to confirm the numbers. So far im loving it. Only thing i will change is the battery place. I will frame mount it.
LockH
1 PW
Yah... watt Maestro DM said "All sorts of (Ed:... ummm, "stuff") happens."
Under the Universal Rules of Travel (TM, and watt a sailor might call one of the "laws" of the sea), NEVER TRUST (EG, your own and other vehicles, on shore the "terrain", etc. Most "stuff" will ALWAYS wear (and wear "out" and break), if not maintained or replaced as needed).
So, one should ALWAYS HAVE A BACKUP PLAN and ALLOW FOR "CONTINGENCIES" (or be prepared to suffer the consequences).
Under the Universal Rules of Travel (TM, and watt a sailor might call one of the "laws" of the sea), NEVER TRUST (EG, your own and other vehicles, on shore the "terrain", etc. Most "stuff" will ALWAYS wear (and wear "out" and break), if not maintained or replaced as needed).
So, one should ALWAYS HAVE A BACKUP PLAN and ALLOW FOR "CONTINGENCIES" (or be prepared to suffer the consequences).
999zip999
100 TW
Hay polskiski what battery are you running because a 40 amp Controller can kill most LiFePo 4 unless you have headway or a 123. You may want to turn down your controller to 30 amp discharge to keep the batteries alive.
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