eCar - Hybridization

DrkAngel said:
Hillhater - Electric price sounds very high. Check with your local electric company. Most will offer electricity at a greatly reduced price during "off peak" hours, (typically 11pm - 7am.) Charging during these reduced usage hours puts no strain on the "grid", and might save you 50% cost. (They will supply a special meter that charges slightly more during day, but much less during "off peak")
Click to expand...

Electricity is expensive ( those are actual costs...18.93c for the first 1500Kwhr, 20.96c for any more than that.) ..and it is going up by at least 50% in the next 2 yrs !!
If i take the "smart meter" off peak system, sure i pay less at night, but they jack up my day time rate even more !!
Unless you can use a lot of power at night ,..it does not pay !
Most folk down here realise they have been conned by the "off Peak" system and want to get rid of it..but there are penalties to change back.
By the time the make a practical EV car, i would expect to be paying 50c per Kwhr, so i am not expecting to reduce my "fuel" costs by much...i just hope the power may be a little "greener" at least. :?
 
Hillhater said:
DrkAngel said:
Hillhater - Electric price sounds very high. Check with your local electric company. Most will offer electricity at a greatly reduced price during "off peak" hours, (typically 11pm - 7am.) Charging during these reduced usage hours puts no strain on the "grid", and might save you 50% cost. (They will supply a special meter that charges slightly more during day, but much less during "off peak")
Click to expand...

Electricity is expensive ( those are actual costs...18.93c for the first 1500Kwhr, 20.96c for any more than that.) ..and it is going up by at least 50% in the next 2 yrs !!
If i take the "smart meter" off peak system, sure i pay less at night, but they jack up my day time rate even more !!
Unless you can use a lot of power at night ,..it does not pay !
Most folk down here realise they have been conned by the "off Peak" system and want to get rid of it..but there are penalties to change back.
By the time the make a practical EV car, i would expect to be paying 50c per Kwhr, so i am not expecting to reduce my "fuel" costs by much...i just hope the power may be a little "greener" at least. :?
Click to expand...

You sound unlucky.
Wyoming is 6.16c/kwh
Most of the country is less than 10c/kwh
Only New England and mid Atlantic are above, oops ... plus California

Link to electric rates:
http://www.eia.doe.gov/electricity/epm/table5_6_b.html
Surprisingly, rates have dropped, over the last year, in many areas!

Yes, off peak might not be right for you.

First inquire what the "smart meter" rates are.
Determine what your present usage is, by each hour.
Figure what can be "conveniently transferred to "off peak" hours.
Make your decision.

If you have an electric vehicle and a large electric hot water tank, timed to charge at night, it might be economically advantageous.
But ... do the math first!
 
Weird. There must be some ridiculously high part of MD to pull the average up that high...that site says 14c/kWh average for MD, but I'm only paying 10. :mrgreen:
 
It is strange that someone would feel that "electric is expensive"? When I started paying an electric bill in 1980, I checked the cost per kWh and it was 10c/kWh ... exactly the same as it is now!

In the last 30 years:
Gasoline cost has quadrupled +,
Cigarettes have increased 10 fold,
Even paychecks have tripled.

But the price of electricity has stayed the same!

Everyone has to bitch about something.
I guess some people have to bitch about everything?

If your electric bill has gone up, most likely it is because you are using more electricity!
 
When adjusted for inflation, the cost of electricity has remained the same, since the 60's!

Link to actual cost and adjusted cost 1960 - 2009:

http://www.eia.gov/aer/txt/ptb0810.html

Granted, there has been a 10% increase, spread over the last 5 years, but that is within the range of typical fluctuation, and is still 20% cheaper than the early 80's.
 
in 2002 electricity was 6.6c / Kwhr, its now 20 c and we have been advised it will increase 50% in the next 2 years ..
...possibly more !
This is basically a result of the "carbon trading" initiative of our present government. If we commit to certain international levels of emissions reductions , the power generators will be the hardest hit , requiring enormous investment (nuclear plants ? etc ) in order to comply. That an years of underinvestment in infrastructure means they are having to gouge customers to play "catch up".
If the USA ever get into an Emissions trading agreement...watch your power costs shoot up.
.. i am looking to convert as much as possible to gas as it is much cheaper for heating , cooking etc.... just wish i could get a CNG fueled car.
 
Hillhater said:
in 2002 electricity was 6.6c / Kwhr, its now 20 c and we have been advised it will increase 50% in the next 2 years ..
...possibly more !
This is basically a result of the "carbon trading" initiative of our present government. If we commit to certain international levels of emissions reductions , the power generators will be the hardest hit , requiring enormous investment (nuclear plants ? etc ) in order to comply. That an years of underinvestment in infrastructure means they are having to gouge customers to play "catch up".
If the USA ever get into an Emissions trading agreement...watch your power costs shoot up.
.. i am looking to convert as much as possible to gas as it is much cheaper for heating , cooking etc.... just wish i could get a CNG fueled car.
Click to expand...
Strange ... Nationally, (USA), Aug. 2010 residential rates are 12.02c/kWh, up from Aug. 2009 12c/kWh, most of that comes from including Alaska, Hawaii. For a total increase of .02% = 2 - 1 hundredths of 1%.

While some States had increased electrical rates, others reduced, resulting in a nearly static electrical cost, nationally.

It looks like New York is the only probable candidate for your 20c/kWh cost! ... ???
But even they only increased, rates, less than 3% Aug. 2009 to Aug. 2010.
If anything, I would be bitching to New York about their high electricity cost.
They appear to be the worst exception to the rule of low cost electricity!
(Hawaii and Alaska are special cases.)
 
Hillhater said:
As i said .... beware of the future cost of Emissions /Carbon reduction agreements. :wink:
Click to expand...
Unfortunately, (or fortunately), the next logical step in a Emissions /Carbon reduction agreement, will be the penalizing, or taxation of every gas powered vehicle. Which will give the government a degree of deniability for the hardships of the "tax" while taking credit for the financing of alternative energy, and electrical vehicle development which fuels "their" "fight to make this country, energy independent!"
 
Good find DRK ;) I still kinda like the diesel / dc gen rig but thats a lot of Gen for the money!
 
US gas prices expected to hit $4/gal by Spring!
 
Honeywell HW6200 7,750 Watt 13 HP 389cc OHV Portable Gas Powered Home Generator
http://www.amazon.com/Honeywell-HW6...?s=home-garden&ie=UTF8&qid=1294473994&sr=1-32

51glIfd95HL._SL500_AA300_.jpg


Shipping included! = $653.50

Oops! Now $725 1/20/2011
 
A Brief Explanation of EV Pusher Trailers for Cars and Bicycles

There are four types of powered trailers associated with Electric Vehicles. These are all Range Extenders that help propel the EV beyond the range of one charge of its own batteries.

They are:

1. Pusher trailers that are basically the front end of a gasoline-powered, front wheel drive, automatic transmission vehicle that physically pushes the EV, instead of driving the electric motor on its batteries.

2. A trailer with a gasoline, diesel, propane or other powered generator on it that can partially or fully power the EV. This is also called a TRE, or ‘Towable Range Extender.’

3. A trailer with extra charged batteries hooked to the EV to supplement the batteries in the EV.

4. A trailer covered with solar panels to help supply extra electricity to the EV.

You will eventually see examples of all four types of EV trailers on this web page.

http://www.evmaine.org/html/ev_trailers.html
 
Gasoline prices have increased 15-20% in the last year (2010), (US).

Forecasters, with the best records, estimate the price to rise between 15-35% this year! (2011)

Others, fear as high as an 85% increase, based on a recovering economy. They predict that any increase of economic growth will push up the price of oil, which will force down the economic growth!

Oil dependency, looks to have a stranglehold on the throat of the world!

Sept 2011 Update
Oil did climb 35%, in the 1st half of 2011.

"Fortunately", in the 2nd half, the worldwide economy stalled, (the collapse of some European economies), allowing prices to drop slightly.
Any time the economy begins to recover ... the price of oil increases ... which squashes the economy.
We're stuck on the oil, merry-go-round, that will keep going faster ... till we fly off.

The question is, will we get off before terminal velocity is reached?
 
Wow ... just found the perfect hitch mount rack, 500lb capacity, and only $114.20 w/free shipping! Plenty of room for trip luggage also!
Does require a 2" receiver hitch - the standard light-medium duty type.


SmittyBilt Rack Universal Fit to 2" Receiver Hitch-NEW! - $114.20


(Click on Picture)
Rack should weigh ... maybe 40 lb

Handy with welding?
You should be able to build a nice compact version!
 

Attachments

  • 7700-Hitch Receiver Rack.jpg
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Have you guys thinking about or already making pusher trailers and the like considered the smog forming emissions aspect of it? Car powertrains are MUCH more strictly regulated with regard to smog forming emissions, and you'd be doing a net disservice to the environment by running a genset on your back bumper, regardless of gas saved (which again would be negligible compared to, say, a Prius).

BEV for daily use. Rent a Prius for longer trips, via Zipcar or conventional car rental services. Problem solved.

Data:

Gensets probably fall under these regulations, at least in CARB-reciprocity states: http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/offroad/SORE.pdf

Modern clean cars, fall under Tier 2 regulations, Bin 3 in the case of the Prius V, for instance: http://www.dieselnet.com/standards/us/ld_t2.php

To drill down to numbers, the Prius V will be putting out:

- 0.011 g/mi HCHO (formaldehyde)
- 0.01 g/mi PM (particulate matter)
- 0.03 g/mi NOx (nitrogen oxides)
- 2.1 g/mi CO (carbon monoxide)
- 0.055 g/mi NMOG (non-methane organic gases)

The definitely-larger-than-225 cc genset, under the optimistic assumption of sustained 60 mph with a load of 15 kW, will be putting out:

- an unregulated amount of HCHO
- an unregulated amount of PM
- 8.0 g/kW-hr * 15 kW * 1/60th of an hour to travel 1 mile = 2 g/mi HC+NOx
- 549 g/kW-hr * 15 kW * 1/60th of an hour to travel 1 mile = 137 g/mi CO
- an unregulated amount of NMOG

There you have it: ~60x higher CO and NOx emissions per mile for the genset.
 
The point of this thread is to offer occasional longer range, to an electric vehicle.

An alternative to owning one of the gas powered hybrids.
or
Instead of a keeping a 2nd "gas guzzler" vehicle, for the occasional trip.

Also great for the homebuild.
Get you, affordably operational, with a smaller battery, then expand the battery as it become more affordable-available.
 
I'm still of the opinion that Zipcar, if in your area (probably not the case in upstate NY), or conventional car rental services is a much more practical solution to the same problem, in cost, complexity, and emissions (by almost two orders of magnitude as I showed above).

Of course, if your object isn't to solve the problem optimally but rather to make something on your own then they're not really solutions.

http://www.zipcar.com/
 
Most all, (presently produced-new models), generators are CARB, (California Air Resources Board), compliant.
 
DrkAngel said:
Most all, (presently produced-new models), generators are CARB, (California Air Resources Board), compliant.
Click to expand...

My post above where I demonstrate genset smog-forming emissions ~60x greater than that of a Prius V was already assuming CARB compliance.
 
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