Electical problems

R

Rahlo12

100 mW
Joined
Jun 9, 2012
Messages
43
Location
Harrow (London)
Hi everyone,

I've had my ebike (79v on HS3540) for just over a month now, and its been great fun, but one day I got a puncture and set about the laborious task of taking out all the connections to the motor to change the inner tube. I eventually hooked everything up again, and set off a few days later when everything was patched up and connected again. I rode for about 5 minutes, when suddenly the motor started to not move and just vibrate (almost as if the phase and hall sensor combination was wrong, as I remember that sort of motor movement from when I was testing combinations to find the right one.)

initially I thought it was just a slapdash connection failing, so I pedalled back home to have a look. Everything was correctly connected, but the motor still exhibited signs of having a wrong phase and halls combination, and when power is applied just vibrated. I'm not really sure what to do and am highly worried (as I can't figure out the problem).

Does this sound like a malfunction with my controller or the motor? I know this sounds crazy, but can the phase/halls combination change and should I go through testing again?
This has really puzzled me and I really don't want my ebike saga to end after only a month...

Any help would be greatly appreciated
 
dnmun said:
what do you mean by 79V? what are you using for a battery and BMS and charger to get 79V?
Click to expand...

battery is rated at nominal 79V with suitable integrated BMS and charger (all from cellman A123 AH cells).
 
For me, I will check all the connections again especially the phase wires

Make sure all the connections are clean from dirt, grease etc, maybe you can clear it with 100% ethanal

Try it and see what you get

Pat
 
Sounds like poor phase/hall connection due to either connector malfunction or perhaps dinged/nicked wires when you performed the wheel removal.

Make sure all the pins are seated properly in connector housings - they sometimes back out.
 
On the halls, to make sure it wasn't the connectors I ditched them and tried wire to wire connections instead in desperation. No luck. The ethanol idea sounds promising as I do remember that my hands were slightly mucky when I handled the wires. I'll also clean the phases as well and see what happens

So I'm assuming trying out new combinations will have no effect?
 
Rahlo12 said:
So I'm assuming trying out new combinations will have no effect?
Click to expand...

My answer would depend on if you restored them to known working combination or not? You mentioned: "...I remember that sort of motor movement from when I was testing combinations to find the right one."

Did you write down the working combination or are you relying from memory?

Now you're describing solder/twist Hall wire connections which brings another "element" into the larger picture of what's going on here. Dunno what to advise you but maybe some pics would convey the situation better than words?
 
The motor movement I'm experiencing was similar to the generic reaction that I got when I tried some phase/hall combinations. I restored the halls to their 'working' combination as before, which was colour to colour for the halls and for the phase was a bit of a mix (I reconnected them from a written record not memory).

I can't take any pics of the new phase connections, as I've left my bike at a relatives (he has a nice big room which I can work on the bike in), however I would say that for the past month of riding I did use a wire to wire connection for the red phase wire (no solder) and insulated it suitably and it performed fine
 
DAND214 said:
), however I would say that for the past month of riding I did use a wire to wire connection for the red phase wire (no solder) and insulated it suitably and it performed fine
Click to expand...

RED PHASE WIRE? Do you mean, HALLS?

Dan
Click to expand...

i was waiting all day for someone to say something. the red phase is that "devil phase". remember that good santa was green and his bad side is red, the devil phase.
 
Well I couldn't get rubbing alcohol, so use acetone to clean the connectors, but still no luck. I tested the motor with a bit of power again and noticed that the motor usually rolled forward a bit and then preceded to just vibrate. I'm thinking that's a sign that it's something to do with the halls?
 
with your controller powered then go ahead and test the hall sensors. the voltage on the hall signal wires should toggle on and off as you slowly rotate the wheel. you measure the voltage by sticking the red probe into the 5 pin plug on the controller side of the plug and the black probe on the black wire in the 5 pin plug.
 
dnmun said:
with your controller powered then go ahead and test the hall sensors. the voltage on the hall signal wires should toggle on and off as you slowly rotate the wheel. you measure the voltage by sticking the red probe into the 5 pin plug on the controller side of the plug and the black probe on the black wire in the 5 pin plug.
Click to expand...

Ok, that sounds like a good next step. I guess I'll go and buy a multimeter and test the halls out and see what I find!
Thanks
 
you can buy a cheap DVM at harbor freight on sale. sometimes they are discounted to $2-3 and buy 2 or 3 since they are useful and you will blow them up eventually. you can't fix stuff without testing it.
 
dnmun said:
you can buy a cheap DVM at harbor freight on sale. sometimes they are discounted to $2-3 and buy 2 or 3 since they are useful and you will blow them up eventually. you can't fix stuff without testing it.
Click to expand...
A local electric store near my place had a Boxing Day sale so I bough it from there (£5 so was pleased). Yet to do the testing, but it seems with a DIY project, stuff like this is gona happen a lot, so I'll look about getting another one sharpish, thanks.
 
I've now tested the halls, and I've come up with a rather curious result. I tested the red and black wires (but they were fine giving a voltage of just over 4). The green and yellow halls were also fine (with their voltage successfully alternating when the motor wheel was spun.

However, when I tested the blue hall and spun the wheel, it remained at a constant voltage (again just over 4V) and didn't alternate. I'm unsure therefore of what the problem is... is it a matter of replacing the blue hall sensor (if so are there any tutorials of how to do that online, or is something else.

Knowing this, is there any shop/person in London (preferably West London) that would be able to deal with and fix this problem?

Thanks
 
there is also the possibility that it has a broken wire from the spot where you measured down to the hall sensor in the motor. it could be broken at the hall sensor itself and only needs to be resoldered. no indication you did anything that would cause the hall sensor itself to fail.
 
Here' a couple threads about repairing Hall sensors/wires and Phase wiring.

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=48114&hilit=Hall+sensors

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=52881&p=786163&hilit=+Hall+sensors#p786163

For more threads search under my posts using "hall sensors"

You may just have a broken wire/connection or may not? As long as the wiring from controller to hub motor axle can be 100% qualified, you'll probably need to open the motor to find out where the Hall sensor switching signal is failing.
 
Ok ykick and dnmun. My halls and phases are fully covered by a protective waterproof sheath that I'll take off to have a full inspection of the halls, but it'll probably be some time till I get round to that! If the blue hall wire looks fine, I guess I'll open up the motor to have a look at the hall, I'm assuming that I'd have to fully take out the stator using a gear puller or something for that?

ARGGG, sounds long and time consuming, hopefully everything will work after this.

Thanks a lot guys!
 
before you open the motor, you should do everything possible to be certain that the hall sensor has failed. you seem to have proven it does not toggle where you tested it at the 5 pin plug so make sure it is not just an open connection going through the plug. so test it on the motor side of the plug too. i just don't see where you overheated the motor or did a twistoff of the axle which is how the hall sensors are usually killed. to have it just fail or have a wire disconnect after it had worked before is not to be expected imo.
 
As dnum sez, qualify any/all possible connection and/or conductor paths before going through the work of opening the motor.

It's not too hard/complicated to rig a 5V supply with 10k pull-up resistor on the switching signal (Blue, Green, Yellow) line if you wish to test the suspect Hall sensor/wiring sans any connection to the controller?
 
Yeah It was really weird and unexplained. Just riding along nearby my house when the motor gives way, so it doesn't sound like anything that would cause a hall to fail.
I'll definitely give it a thorough look next weekend, when I've got some more time.

If an eye inspection fails, I guess I'll try your method out ykick, hopefully that'll bring about the problem.

Thanks for the offer sacko, and if eventually it does come to me opening up the motor (which I'd rather not do) I'll definitely consider your offer.

Thanks for the help!
 
It sure looks like your blue hall sensor has a problem.

80v is quite plenty to heat up that motor, and I've had halls fail after parking a hot motor. Parked, if you had a temp sensor in there, you'd see that temp really spike when the cooling wind stops.

Result, next day, bike no run. Cooked off the halls parked in the garage. Or, it's entirely possible something else went on in there. like you fried the little halls board inside the motor. Or even have a mechanical disconnect inside.

Time to open er up, and install a thermometer while you are in there.
 
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