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Anonymous
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If rationality ruled and satisfying people's need for just short/medium trips in urban areas was the goal,
then it seems to me that the solution would be a very light, simple, but fully enclosed eCar like the
commuta-car, but lighter due to better batteries, motor and plastics. Could be powered by the same
mass produced and relatively inexpensive controllers, motors and batteries our ebikes use.
Could be one or two seaters, target speed 50-60km/h, range 40-60km.
Price? $3000-4000 ought to be reasonable if mass produced.
(Materials wise it would be like combining an ebike/scooter with a plastic shell.)
A special registration class could be created for these eCar's (or if current rules remain,
they would be easier to introdude as three wheelers with moped or motorcycle registration)
then it seems to me that the solution would be a very light, simple, but fully enclosed eCar like the
commuta-car, but lighter due to better batteries, motor and plastics. Could be powered by the same
mass produced and relatively inexpensive controllers, motors and batteries our ebikes use.
Could be one or two seaters, target speed 50-60km/h, range 40-60km.
Price? $3000-4000 ought to be reasonable if mass produced.
(Materials wise it would be like combining an ebike/scooter with a plastic shell.)
A special registration class could be created for these eCar's (or if current rules remain,
they would be easier to introdude as three wheelers with moped or motorcycle registration)
TylerDurden
100 GW
A little styling goes along way... if enclosed trike bodies get away from the dorky Sparrow & Twike and get closer to the Carver, Alias and Aptera; people might take test drives in their own neighborhoods.
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John in CR
100 TW
NutsandVolts,
With lithium battery production ramping up and prices likely to be approaching $250/kwh at a high enough volume level, I don't share your pessimism and see the coming energy revolution. Hell, even Big O used that exact description. I see a very bright electric future and am trying to figure out the best way for me to participate.
John
With lithium battery production ramping up and prices likely to be approaching $250/kwh at a high enough volume level, I don't share your pessimism and see the coming energy revolution. Hell, even Big O used that exact description. I see a very bright electric future and am trying to figure out the best way for me to participate.
John
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TylerDurden
100 GW
Well, they are enclosed motorcycles.nutsandvolts said:
I can appreciate your concern... I was hit by a kid texting at the wheel. Fortunately, I was trailering a Citicar, not driving it.
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John in CR
100 TW
nutsandvolts said:
I'm with you. I really really dislike cars behind me on my bike, and is why I believe all ebike should be equipped with mirrors and strong brake lights and turn signals. We're so much more exposed on a bike. In even a very small car it offers at least some protection. Keep in mind that unless you're in a tank, those idiots behind the wheel can kill you. I'm sure the future will include an general weight reduction in cars.
Something needing development is smart suspensions that can adjust themselves according to the load aboard. That's the only way to get the ride and handling quality as passenger weight become significant relative to the overall vehicle weight.
In the meantime, forget any idea that cars will go away, but much smaller and more efficient is a perfectly reasonable expectation.
John
nutsandvolts said:
Politicians and government are not very visionary, but mostly reactive to the current situation. True improvement to city planning may come only when the majority of voters demand it. The manufacturers of cheap eBikes in China and Walmart/Canadian tire type places are our allies as they put more people on eBikes than any other source. This is probably way more effective than trying to persuade politicians with logic.
The same goes for my cheap enclosed trike suggestion. A $3-4000 price point for something useful and fun is going to allow much quicker adoption than $30-40,000. I agree about the safety current concerns. With mass adoption, safety will be dealt with. Until then one would have to drive them with the same attention to traffic as when we bike.
What about the thread posted by e-bikes.com stating the Feds won't allow lithium batteries to be transported, risking a $50,000 fine?John in CR said:
Lithium batteries are useless if you can't get them shipped. Even if they cost $1 for the whole pack...
TylerDurden
100 GW
They will be shipped. It's a question if only big companies that can afford the testing & hazmat costs will be in the game.Puppyjump said:
Installed packs may be exempted, it is not clear yet.
I drove the Citroen C1 evie a few weeks ago and it performed extremely well. It's sold as a 60, 60 product. That is it will run at 60mph for 60 miles. Faster speed and you get less miles. slower speed and you get more miles. I think the current situation with batteries is a stepping stone and it serves well to get people to understand the concepts, technology and design requirements. However as mentioned, it only removes emissions from the city street and transfers it to the power station in the country. There is a massive innefficiency in electricity generation and transportation. I once calculated how much coal is requiredat the power station in order to boil the kettle for a cup of tea. The result was about a ton of coal. How scary is that? Best efficiency comes from generating the electric on the vehicle. Fuel cells do this and are getting smaller all the time. They have fuel cells in place of the battery tanks on fork truck now. Then the question is how to efficiently split hydrogen out from water. I saw a nice solar furnace working in California (or Arizona) that could do just that.
Work to be done for sure, but at least the foot is on the bottom rung of the ladder.
Work to be done for sure, but at least the foot is on the bottom rung of the ladder.
Electric cars should be no different in styling and comfort from the regular petroleum cars, save for better taste perhaps - a lot of new cars are very bland when compared to the cars from more than 25 years ago. As far as having limited speeds, that is a mistake. The ability to accelerate away from a hazard is essential to safe driving, even if for some the need never arises. As for there being too many vehicles on the road, that is merely a small example of the root problem, that people need to curb their breeding habits substantially. There should be less than half the population there is on Earth these days. And this overpopulation is largely a result of inadequate education, which is also the cause of those tailgating and other foolish drivers whom I remind you are not just found in gasoline cars but every other conceivable vehicle, including motorcycles and bicycles.
Ultimately the truth is we have had technology to equip an electric car to perform adequately and safely carry passengers for some time. Nickel Metal Hydride was fine, and in the coming years we will see that "nano"-constructed lithiums and such batteries are really just icing on the cake. As far as people mentioning that electric cars don't help anyway because they take power from the polluting power plants, I say these are just poor excuses. Allow me to elaborate: I live in a province of Canada that obtains nearly 95% of it's electricity from hydro dams, using water as a medium to harness gravity. The water then recollects in the atmosphere to to return to the dams later because of the sun. So it's solar power in a round-about way. Other places in the world, even Canada and the States use oil and coal power plants. The worst are the nuclear power plants for obvious reasons. But in regards to petroleum plants, they will pollute slightly less powering electric cars than gasoline and diesel cars pollute because electric systems are more efficient for vehicles. Petroleum engines are best suited to constant speed and torque and do poorly in daily driving situations; electric motors retain a fairly high efficiency in these ever changing driving conditions. But all of this is relatively unimportant when we ask the question "why are we using oil, coal and nuclear power at all?" We could replace large portions of out power supplies with renewable sources. I know there are particularly windy areas on the west coast of Canada for example, and lots of places to harness solar in various ways.
In summary the technology still isn't the problem, greed is. The oil, auto and battery industries are greedy, and they cater very well to the greedy politicians who push electric vehicles in general away. The solutions are obvious but as difficult to obtain as equality in middle-eastern cultures.
Ultimately the truth is we have had technology to equip an electric car to perform adequately and safely carry passengers for some time. Nickel Metal Hydride was fine, and in the coming years we will see that "nano"-constructed lithiums and such batteries are really just icing on the cake. As far as people mentioning that electric cars don't help anyway because they take power from the polluting power plants, I say these are just poor excuses. Allow me to elaborate: I live in a province of Canada that obtains nearly 95% of it's electricity from hydro dams, using water as a medium to harness gravity. The water then recollects in the atmosphere to to return to the dams later because of the sun. So it's solar power in a round-about way. Other places in the world, even Canada and the States use oil and coal power plants. The worst are the nuclear power plants for obvious reasons. But in regards to petroleum plants, they will pollute slightly less powering electric cars than gasoline and diesel cars pollute because electric systems are more efficient for vehicles. Petroleum engines are best suited to constant speed and torque and do poorly in daily driving situations; electric motors retain a fairly high efficiency in these ever changing driving conditions. But all of this is relatively unimportant when we ask the question "why are we using oil, coal and nuclear power at all?" We could replace large portions of out power supplies with renewable sources. I know there are particularly windy areas on the west coast of Canada for example, and lots of places to harness solar in various ways.
In summary the technology still isn't the problem, greed is. The oil, auto and battery industries are greedy, and they cater very well to the greedy politicians who push electric vehicles in general away. The solutions are obvious but as difficult to obtain as equality in middle-eastern cultures.
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