electronics to convert Meanwell HLG supply into a charger

[madin88]

I think of build my own charger out of some Meanwell HLG LED power supply units.
The HLG series does have good CC/CV limiting like a common charger, so no modification must be done at this point.
Two of the new HLG-600 (they should be soon on the market) would give a great (fanless ) 1200W charger for up to 112volts -> this is what i plan to built.
If a single supply is used, many of the HLG can be set up to 56V.

HLG-320: http://www.meanwell.com/search/hlg-320h/default.htm
HLG-600: http://www.meanwell.com/search/HLG-600H/default.htm

to convert them to a real charger, there are mainly followings things to add:

- some kind of electronics which is able to drive a relais to cut the connection to the battery
for example: if current falls below a given value (this value should be alterable) the connection will be cut

- when some of them connected in series, there must be a diode installed between every charger to prevent them from to high voltage.
i think the diode must be rated for the current.

i found this:

http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=40434

this display electronics is nice, but can it be modded to drive a relais?

if not, i think of building my own electronic with arduino to drive the relais. maybe its better to feed the display and arduino board with an very small extra supply and also cut off the charger supplies with their remote signal.
what do you say?

every help is greatly appreciated

 

[dnmun]

i think you misunderstand why a diode is placed across the output of each power supply.

imagine the circuit and where the current will go if one of the chargers shorts out.

 

[madin88]

now its clear:
shottkey diode (back biased), rated for: twice the voltage, twice the current
needs to be placed across each output (they will protect the psu's from any applied reverse voltage).

the outputs must be un-earthed, but the cases can touch (no problem if both are connected to earth in the socket) - right?

 

[dnmun]

yes the earth ground should not be connected to the negative output. but if the earth ground is connected to the SMPS output, you can open the case of the power supply and cut the wire that connects the earth ground to the negative charger output and then it is isolated. the ground wire is easy to find and even though is not common it does happen sometimes but is easy to find and remove when you open the case. i think the earth ground is important for protection against shorting of the collector of the switching transistor to the case. that is why they do that, but it is not needed for the ground to be connected to the negative output and if that happens then you cannot use the power supplies in series.

 

[parabellum]

http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=40434

this display electronics is nice, but can it be modded to drive a relais?

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=60042&p=905052#p905052
follow second link of LFP

 

[madin88]

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=60042&p=905052#p905052
follow second link of LFP

thx, but after a closer look to the relay control, it seems not to be useful for a 5-10% current stage cut off.

description:

By turning External device Relay on and off, it can control external devices, such cut off Power Input
[OVP] Over Voltage protection
[LOP] Low Voltage protection
[OCP] Over Current protection
[OAH] Over Charge protection
[OPP] Over Power protection
[OFT] Over Time protection

useful would be:
- over time protection (like a timer switch)
- over voltage protecion -> this will also disable the CV charging stage

 

[teslanv]

I like the HLG-600H PS option. If building a battery from scratch, I am thinking of wiring a harness like Icecube57's "One Plug Anderson Harness"

[youtube]hmpE518LykA[/youtube]

That way, only one power supply would be needed, based on the Parallel charge voltage.

If I were to do a 24S-10Ah LiPo battery with 4S Hardcase packs, it would be in a 6S2P configuration for discharge and 3S4P for bulk charging (And (3) 8S Balance leads for bleed-balancing as needed), which would require the charge voltage to be right or just under 50.4V - Do-able with either the HLG-600H-48A or the HLG-600H-54A. At 600W PS, and an 888Whrs battery, this should fully charge in just over an hour. Charge current of 12A would be well under the 5C max. charge rate of the packs.

Then Add LFP's suggested programmable HVC/display:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/181430544783

Should net one hell of a portable guerrilla charger.

And then monitor the pack with a few Cell Loggers plugged into the balance leads.

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/..._Voltage_Monitor_2_8S_Lipo_US_Warehouse_.html

 

[dnmun]

you have to have a CV stage to balance the pack under the BMS. if there is no balancing current to force the undercharged cells to gain more charge relative to the full cells then they can go farther out of balance.

 

[agniusm]

So to sum up does HLG-600 need modification or it could be used strait out of the box (single one)? Would it allow BMS to do its job properly?
Does anyone know pricing on these?

 

[madin88]

So to sum up does HLG-600 need modification or it could be used strait out of the box (single one)? Would it allow BMS to do its job properly?
Does anyone know pricing on these?

All Meanwell HLG LED supplie can be used straight out of the box for a bulk charger. They have pots to adjust max voltage (up to 56V) and current.
The only thing you want to add is a relay to cut automatically the connection between charger and battery at about 5-10% of set current - otherwise the supply will hold your battery "forever" to max charge voltage which cannot be good for battery life.
Because of this i started this thread. I try to find or build some kind of electronics for this purpose.

I do not know if the HLG work properly with a bms, but i guess it does because the BMS will cut the connection if a cell shows too high voltage and resume if this cell was bleed down. It is the same like with any other chinese bulk charger.

The HLG 320 is about 100$. No pricing yet for the HLG 600.

 

[madin88]

you have to have a CV stage to balance the pack under the BMS. if there is no balancing current to force the undercharged cells to gain more charge relative to the full cells then they can go farther out of balance.

the HLG supplies will go automatically in CV stage if the set voltage is reached. Most of the BMS do not charge undercharged cells, but they bleed down cells with too high voltage.
Charge to only 4,1V per cell will help to stay below critical volts.

 

[agniusm]

So if BMS cuts out the charger there shouldn't be a need for relay? Anyway could you just use those electronic timers and switch charger off completely after set time?

 

[madin88]

So if BMS cuts out the charger there shouldn't be a need for relay? Anyway could you just use those electronic timers and switch charger off completely after set time?

I'm not sure how the dedicated charging input works at all the different BMS out there, but i think its not the same like a real cut off with a relay in the charger. We should check it out.
A timer switch in the socked (this was my first idea) will shut off the charger, but the battery is still connected to it.
Better would be a timer switch between supply and battery imho -> for this we can use that display electronics from the link above and set up high voltage protection.

 

[dnmun]

just a lot of misinformation and misunderstanding in this thread.

a BMS does continue to put charge into the cells which have less charge as the high cells are bleeding charge off through the shunt resistors.

if you leave a battery attached to the charger then charge will be lost back into the charger through the bleed down resistor across the output caps.

not sure why you would wanna use a timer if you are trying to make the BMS balance the pack. counterproductive to say the least.

 

[madin88]

just a lot of misinformation and misunderstanding in this thread.

what?

a BMS does continue to put charge into the cells which have less charge as the high cells are bleeding charge off through the shunt resistors.

show me some BMS (for our ebike usage) which puts charge into cells with lowest voltage?
mostly any e-bike bms will only bleed down cells with to high voltage. Some start at 4.1V, some at 4.18V and the other not until 4,2V exceeded.
I would like to see every BMS to start at 4.1V. imho this is the best, because many of us charge not higher to increase battery lifespan. you also will much harder reach dangerous volts because of too fast charging or a too weak bms in an unbalanced pack.

if you leave a battery attached to the charger then charge will be lost back into the charger through the bleed down resistor across the output caps.

not every charger does have such a resistor on the output, and if it has one, it will take very long time (weeks) to drain the battery. If we add a relay or a timer switch -> no problem there!

not sure why you would wanna use a timer if you are trying to make the BMS balance the pack. counterproductive to say the least.

dnmun, you are a big fan of the chinese Alloy shell or EMC Kingpan chargers. how do these bulk chargers act at this point?
If you have a bad cell in your battery, you anyway want to replace it as soon as possible.

 

[dnmun]

all BMS will push charge into the cell that is not full already as the cells which are already full continue to divert the balancing current around them through the shunt resistor.

all power supplies and chargers have bleed down resistors on the output.

no battery can balance under a BMS if the charger is turned off by a timer.

 

[madin88]

all BMS will push charge into the cell that is not full already as the cells which are already full continue to divert the balancing current around them through the shunt resistor.

are you sure?
as far as i know almost every BMS for ebike usage do NOT push charge into cells. with the resistors, they only bleed down cells with to high voltage.

all power supplies and chargers have bleed down resistors on the output.

sure? i cannnot see such a resistor in my cheap Kingpan 1200W charger. it also takes long time before the display and led's go out which should be an indicator for this..

no battery can balance under a BMS if the charger is turned off by a timer.

many of the common chargers will cut off anyway before balancing really is finished, because of their standard 5-10% current setting (bleeding current of the BMS is much lower).
If i set a timer switch to more time than any charge of my battery will take, isn't it than better for the BMS to finish balancing? :wink:

 

[dnmun]

of course i am certain. i would not state something if i did not know it to be true.

the leds on the output of the charger do not turn off if the charger remains attached to the battery.

chargers do not stop pushing charge when the charger shifts to CV mode when the charging current drops to 5%.

 

[madin88]

dnmun, sadly i think you do not understand what my thread is about. i guess you only want to discuss. thats a pity. :|

I have worked with some BMS and they only bleed down cells with to high voltage - no charge pushed into cells with lower voltage.
The EMC 900 and EMC 1200 chargers i have do cut off at about 5-10% (adjustable) of the rated current and they also stop charging because the relay has cut the connection.
Since the Meanwell HLG supplie do not cut off, current will fall down to 0% and the BMS can completely finish balancing.

 

[dnmun]

you are wrong. the relay on the charger is controlled by the presence of the battery on the output. when there is no battery or the battery polarity is reversed then the relay is not energized. that is all and it does not turn off the charger when the current falls to 5%. all BMSs will continue pushing balancing charge into the unfilled cells even as the full cells divert current around it. how many times do i have to repeat it.

 

[cal3thousand]

We certainly need to have these type of chargers investigated and posted in one place. I appreciate your efforts.

I have a CLG Meanwell that I am starting to play around with (CLG-150-48) for a travel charger. It will work decently for a quick 90% charge while on the road. But I would like to have a setup that will do up to 100V.

Subscribed

 

[cal3thousand]

you are wrong. the relay on the charger is controlled by the presence of the battery on the output. when there is no battery or the battery polarity is reversed then the relay is not energized. that is all and it does not turn off the charger when the current falls to 5%. all BMSs will continue pushing balancing charge into the unfilled cells even as the full cells divert current around it. how many times do i have to repeat it.

You guys are really arguing over a moot point. The net effect is the same. Which ever is true has no bearing on the real point of this thread and the difference is just efficiency. One bleeds down high cells while charging, leaving a net (presumably of 0 charge), the other says that charge is routed around the high cells (through the shunt?).

 

[madin88]

dnmun, why we can set the Full cut-off current point between 3-10% at all those EMC / AlloyShell / Kingpan chargers? Don't they stop charging at this point?

 

[dnmun]

i am not arguing over a moot point. i am trying to clarify misinformation.

you guys feel like you can make any statement here that you wanna post up without any knowledge of what you are saying and this place is now full of misinformation that cannot be reversed because it is stuck in the wiki pages and all the posts full of misinformation about batteries and now about chargers too.

there is no editorial control here so it is not possible to stop the flood of misinformation and then people continue to argue something which is wrong and misleading to those who do not have the ability to know more than what is correct and what is not.

that is not fair to those who are trying to learn something and they are fed misinformation about charging voltages, battery capacity, BMS behavior, causes of the lipo fires, causes of why pouches puff, and on and on.

 

[agniusm]

On my latest charger I put diode inline on the output and it works, charger does not bleed down the pack anymore. My question was if these led supplies(with CC/CV) work the same way our chargers do to replace them with something posted above? Ip65, 5G shock proof, thermal, polarity safety is what I am after.
I gos some info that 600W are comming in august.

My builds are always with onboard charger therefore it is of importace to me that they were shock proof, splash proof, pasive coolled and with self reseting thermal safety as they get hot in enclosed environment. Above charger broke just 2 days ago because of the thermal issue. I will fit ot with 40C thermal switch no problem, but to have something ready made without tinkering is worth the extra they cost and I dont mind extra amp or two for charging