Electroplating copper with pure nickel (PICS)

[garolittle]

I am wondering this too. How thick does the nickel need to be? What is the welding-quality result at the various thicknesses of nickel-plating? Hope to have testing results soon.

The good news is that even if the nickle plating on the .15mm copper strip is too thin for spot welding, I can still use the process for preventing corrosion on a thicker copper bus bar. This would be helpful if I opt for “individual cell fuses”. For example, I can always solder one end of individual cell fuse onto the bus bar and spot weld the other end directly to the cell (using tinned copper 24AWG wire). I will post the results when I conduct the experiments. I sincerely appreciate everyone’s feedback. This forum is awesome.

 

[Matador]

I don't understand what you are trying to accomplish by plating copper with nickel.

I think he is trying to make and use strips of metal basically havehave 4 times the conductivity of nickel by having a bare copper core, while maintaning the properties of a metal that does not easily oxidises to the air like copper does when it turns to vert de gris.

THe better conductivity of Copper,
The better oxidation resistance of Nickel.

It,t the approach that builder who want performance and high conductivity choose.
In analogous fashion, the NESE kit uses Zinc plated copper
The Vruzend V2 uses NIckel plated copper fo high current
The Tyva Moduloo use Nickel plate copper for high current

I tried this method of plating a while back too (see my pics) :
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=84412&start=75#p1240475
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=60364&start=25#p1235640
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=60364&start=25#p1236685

Alternatively, he his possibly trying to increase the metal strip SURFACE resistance to enhable heat/SPOT WELDING, while retaining optimal CORE CONDUCTION PRODUCTIVITY.
Thought about that for a while now, but I'd need to buy myself a spotwelder.

Matador

 

[garolittle]

I think he is trying to make and use strips of metal basically havehave 4 times the conductivity of nickel by having a bare copper core, while maintaning the properties of a metal that does not easily oxidises to the air like copper does when it turns to vert de gris.

THe better conductivity of Copper,
The better oxidation resistance of Nickel.

........

Alternatively, he his possibly trying to increase the metal strip SURFACE resistance to enhable heat/SPOT WELDING, while retaining optimal CORE CONDUCTION PRODUCTIVITY.

Yes Sir. That is exactly what I am trying to do.

 

[litespeed]

I have a fairly powerful capacitor discharge welder at 800 watt seconds (according to the designer can peak at 10,000 amps!) and can tell you that both copper and brass are very hard to weld. I’ve tried copper, glidcop and tungsten electrodes with almost no difference. I have read that a couple have been doing it here but I haven’t continued to try. I just went with nickel with copper soldered on top. I’ll be interested in hearing how this technique welds, where it ends up resistance wise and the actual strength of the welds. Copper has a tendency to have pour resistance to any movement. Need to really isolate the cells/strips from any impacts that could cause them to crack. At least that was my observation from what I have read when researching the idea.

Neat idea.

Tom

 

[spinningmagnets]

To add to Matadors list, the Nishi kit uses zinc-plated copper contacts, just like NESE.

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=95309#p1400000

 

[garolittle]

Thanks for all the great replies. My other idea is to simply nickel plate copper bus bars and then spot weld individual cell fuses to the 18650 cells. I would then solder the other end of the fuse wires to the copper bus bar. The prototype below (without nickel plating) shows the basic idea. I believe I used 28 AWG cell fuses in this example but I am not positive. The advantage of this approach is that the nickel plated bus bars would provide protection from corrosion and the individual cell fuses would help prevent "thermal runaway" if one 18650 cell shorts out. Also, the bus bars provide a "venting" effect which transfers heat away from the cells.

 

[Chalo]

I don't understand what you are trying to accomplish by plating copper with nickel.

[...]Alternatively, he his possibly trying to increase the metal strip SURFACE resistance to enhable heat/SPOT WELDING, while retaining optimal CORE CONDUCTION PRODUCTIVITY.
Thought about that for a while now, but I'd need to buy myself a spotwelder.

Plating thickness is in my estimation too thin to have a significant effect on resistive welding. Keep in mind that material resistance is incremented as ohms per length of conductor, and the length in this case approaches zero. But who knows? Maybe increased resistance at the surface contact while it lasts could have an instantaneous effect that improves spot welding.

Copper only acquires a benign thin brown oxidation layer in air. Verdegris requires the presence of water and/or reactive chemicals. Typical surface oxidation on copper has no effect on performance, assuming it was clean at the time of welding or soldering.

 

[garolittle]

Plating thickness is in my estimation too thin to have a significant effect on resistive welding. Keep in mind that material resistance is incremented as ohms per length of conductor, and the length in this case approaches zero. But who knows? Maybe increased resistance at the surface contact while it lasts could have an instantaneous effect that improves spot welding.

This may be true. I mananged to spot weld the nickle plated .15 mm copper strips to a few dead cells today. I used the Sunkko unit pictured and I did not expect much given the lack of power for this welder but I was pleased with the results. The welds are too weak for use in my electric go kart battery pack but but I will try several more options in the coming weeks. For example, I have a Kweld unit arriving soon and I will run extensive experiments once it is received. I will also see if I can obtain a thicker nickel plating using longer electroplating techniques. Keep in mind that the weld results shown below used a spot welder much weaker than the Kweld unit and a .15 mm strip that was electroplated for only 5 minutes. I have another strip that was nickel plated for 30 minutes. Hopefully, a thicker nickel plating combined with the more powerful Kweld unit will provide even stronger welds. More to come.
View attachment 2

 

[spinningmagnets]

Please repeat that exact test, but use two separate strips so there is no connection at all between them. Perhaps hold the two strips in proper orientation to each other with tape?

The cordless tools that use Ni-plated copper for the bus have much longer slots. The slots have to loop around to get enough slot-length in the space available.

 

[garolittle]

Please repeat that exact test, but use two separate strips so there is no connection at all between them. Perhaps hold the two strips in proper orientation to each other with tape?

Yes. Will do. Good point about the slits. I will repeat the test and repot back. Thanks.

 

[nieles]

could you tear of the strip and see if the welds stay on the cells? to see how good the welds are.
if the welds are good, the will be little pieces of the tab left behind on the cells.

also the slid will only do its job well for the first weld. after that there are more paths for the current to take (through the previous welds)
to help with this i weld in a diagonal pattern (to make the current path through the previous welds longer)

but good results man! please keep posting you findings

 

[garolittle]

could you tear of the strip and see if the welds stay on the cells? to see how good the welds are.
if the welds are good, the will be little pieces of the tab left behind on the cells.

Good information thank you. I was able to pull the tabs off since the welds were not as strong as they usually are when I Use pure nickel strips. However I am using a Sunkko welder which is not nearly as powerful as the K weld unit. The welds may be strong enough for something as simple as a power bank but not for the heavy vibrations of a go kart. I will take your advice regarding the slit in the strips and I will also attempt to achieve a much thicker nickel plating this weekend. I will also use the Kweld unit as soon as it is received so that should help significantly.

 

[999zip999]

Good work.

 

[garolittle]

Good work.

Thanks. It is amazing how much information is available on the internet. With enough time and money (I am short on both) a person can learn so much using forums like this. :lol:

 

[Matador]

Indeed, good work ! Finaly someone tries it in practice for real rather than speculating the results that they expect and conclude on hypothesis.

 

[garolittle]

Indeed, good work ! Finaly someone tries it in practice for real rather than speculating the results that they expect and conclude on hypothesis.

Thanks. The best way to learn is to simply give it a shot and see what happens. Just got my Kweld unit and I hope to post some untested results within a week. Stay tuned.

 

[999zip999]

Electric go kart I just want to sit in it. Well maybe just a little more

 

[garolittle]

Electric go kart I just want to sit in it. Well maybe just a little more

Sure. No problem. Free rides to the first person to give me good solid advice on a motor and charge controller per this thread.

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=95754

I am ready to spend some cash but just need some good advice