EM3ev WARNING - abysmal customer support.

[Jim Subzero]

Just got an email from Joseph explaining what "partly shipped" means. It means that they sent the order to their shipping agent but have not yet got a USA tracking number from them. Likely, the order will be delivered by FedEx (or maybe UPS). It will be shipped by air from China to an agent in the US who will transfer it to FedEx (or maybe UPS). Joseph assures me I will not be charged any import fees.

 

[RespectC]

I could not quite understand why replies to this post seemed so defensive of EM3ev. Lets be clear they didn't supply the product that was ordered and that incorrectly supplied product was also damaged. Plenty happy to communicate during the selling process but not after. Zero documentation supplied (yes folks a basic manual should come with a product that can take your life or burn your house down and certainly does come with Unit Pack Power batteries)
Oh wait a minute EM3ev resell Grin products - that couldn't be the reason there seems to be a strange degree of support for such a shit show could it?

 

[neptronix]

Oh wait a minute EM3ev resell Grin products - that couldn't be the reason there seems to be a strange degree of support for such a shit show could it?

em3ev resells a few grin products but makes their own batteries.
Tons of other vendors resell grin products though. Not some special or unique business relationship..
em3ev has been a respected seller here for over 10 years and we see complaints about customer service every spring like clockwork.

If anything is strange here, it's that your first post on the forum contains a conspiracy theory about the owner of this forum's relation to em3ev. A lot of people like to make accusations such as those but never have any proof to present.
Yet em3ev does not maintain a presence here ( probably due to past harassment from lunacycle ) and Justin of ebikes.ca has never made a decision about what content is allowable.

What you're hearing is the opinion of members who use em3ev's products.

Please don't posit conspiracy theories in the future about any vendors here unless you actually have proof of such things.

 

[NoFanBoiz]

Oh wait a minute EM3ev resell Grin products - that couldn't be the reason there seems to be a strange degree of support for such a shit show could it?

em3ev resells a few grin products but makes their own batteries.
Tons of other vendors resell grin products though. Not some special or unique business relationship..
em3ev has been a respected seller here for over 10 years and we see complaints about customer service every spring like clockwork.

If anything is strange here, it's that your first post on the forum contains a conspiracy theory about the owner of this forum's relation to em3ev. A lot of people like to make accusations such as those but never have any proof to present.
Yet em3ev does not maintain a presence here ( probably due to past harassment from lunacycle ) and Justin of ebikes.ca has never made a decision about what content is allowable.

What you're hearing is the opinion of members who use em3ev's products.

Please don't posit conspiracy theories in the future about any vendors here unless you actually have proof of such things.

It's time a moderator or administrator changed the title of this thread. The current title is defamation and the thread contains defamation in posts from two members.

 

[RespectC]

Not suggesting (or secretly thinking) that Justin is masterminding the odd tone of this thread. I'm sure he has much better things to do. I've been part of the Ebike community since 2018 and have the utmost respect for the contribution he has made in product development, business and of course this forum - genuinely.

Just seems really odd that someone posts what seems to be a pretty legitimate complaint (vendor did not deliver the product that was ordered, the incorrect product and the charger both broken, vendor subsequently just ignores any attempt at communication) yet all the replies just tell the OP to either solder on the charge connectors he asked for or buy an adaptor and not to worry at all about a broken battery case because we all like EM3ev.

Granted the title of thread is a little OTT but the defence of EM3ev does not make any sense. Can only imagine what this thread would have looked like if the battery had been purchased from UPP who you can apparently denigrate and defame endlessly. Both Chinese businesses but one has old school colonial ownership - is that the answer or is it just a simple case of "I drank the cool-aid for brand A and will die in a ditch defending them and if you buy any other brand you must be an idiot"

Just want to be clear I cannot and am not commenting on EM3ev product - as I've not done business with them and am not suggesting that I would not either. Simply pointing out that the replies to the OP are nonsensical

 

[neptronix]

Oh no you missed my post then.. this is super bad support and that needs correcting if true. But the product is very likely useful in the case he was actually done wrong.

If i were in these shoes i'd file a paypal claim for a partial refund after inspecting the battery to see if it was useful or not. Or full if it was a bunk product. I've done so before when really getting screwed.

But em3ev has been good to a lot of people here and that's why there may be more apologetics than booers.

 

[nicobie]

It's just that there are so many bad players in the ebike world that when ever we get a reputable one we tend to defend them.

 

[P3yot3]

Hello guys/gals & thanks for your input. I've been away on business so sorry for not replying earlier - I'll try to answer your questions/concerns as well as update the situation.

I've still not had any replies to my requests for a replacement/refund so have initiated a charge back via my bank, due to their complete silence on the matter & zero response to emails/phone calls/this thread.

Just got an email from Joseph explaining what "partly shipped" means.

Yes, Joseph was very friendly & helpful to me also until I emailed him about the missing connections, faulty charger & damaged battery - then he went silent. If you do have any issues - you're screwed I'm afraid.

I could not quite understand why replies to this post seemed so defensive of EM3ev. Lets be clear they didn't supply the product that was ordered and that incorrectly supplied product was also damaged. Plenty happy to communicate during the selling process but not after. Zero documentation supplied (yes folks a basic manual should come with a product that can take your life or burn your house down and certainly does come with Unit Pack Power batteries)

Thank you. Indeed in some countries a user manual & safety guide are required by law, my country is one of those.

It's time a moderator or administrator changed the title of this thread. The current title is defamation and the thread contains defamation in posts from two members.

My post is factual including photos & proof - the title is based on those facts & is there as a warning to others. If EM3ev care to prove me wrong I am more than willing to change the title myself, but I'm done waiting for them.

But the product is very likely useful in the case he was actually done wrong.

If i were in these shoes i'd file a paypal claim for a partial refund after inspecting the battery to see if it was useful or not. Or full if it was a bunk product. I've done so before when really getting screwed.

But em3ev has been good to a lot of people here and that's why there may be more apologetics than booers.

It probably is useful to someone, just not me. I have initiated a chargeback for the full amount but am still unwilling to open up the battery to see if I can change it for my use case as a) It will void any warranty, although it seems that the warranty isn't worth squat anyway if EM3ev's CS is anything to go by, & b) I shouldn't have to, & c) When I get refunded by my bank I might be offering the battery for sale if EM3ev don't contact me for it's return, so I'd rather not open it.

Yes, EM3ev have been good to a lot of people - that's why I chose them. I've now changed my mind about them & want to warn others about my experience with them so that nobody else gets screwed. They seem to be relying on their reputation as a means to send people crap for money & it's not on. The lack of CS alone is enough to not use them, let alone anything else.

Thanks again everyone - I'll keep you informed if anything changes.

 

[markz]

There used to be a long list of associated dealers for Grintech from around the world that I checked out and found several stores in my city that sold Grintech stuff.

Now it looks like whatever web page changes they did, the dealer list is not there anymore.
But your right, Justin's busy and with the times as they are now, probably more busy then ever.

Now all I can find is this.
https://ebikes.ca/dealers.html

Grin Technologies has dealers and business partners located around the world and there is a chance that some items you are looking for may be available locally. Every shop and business is unique and has their own list of items that they like to carry or have expertise with however, and none are going to be grin rep's or offer everything in our catalog. Use the filter at the top which lets you quickly narrow down the dealer list by country or state/province, and also by product group.

Thank you for supporting your local ebike shops.

On a side note, I hope they do a full tour of their brand new space all up and running.
Promo vid - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkXlxvLrvtw
Archives - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCbKIWz7uAeDSMgulTonKk6w/videos
Old tour of 2 locations ago - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxB2j-egWcQ&t=2601s

I could not quite understand why replies to this post seemed so defensive of EM3ev. Lets be clear they didn't supply the product that was ordered and that incorrectly supplied product was also damaged. Plenty happy to communicate during the selling process but not after. Zero documentation supplied (yes folks a basic manual should come with a product that can take your life or burn your house down and certainly does come with Unit Pack Power batteries)
Oh wait a minute EM3ev resell Grin products - that couldn't be the reason there seems to be a strange degree of support for such a shit show could it?

Well yeah, its just seems odd that someone comes in and their first post ever is to diss someone else, it would seem to some like a competitor trying to get an edge on their better competitor, or some other trivial reason. Its a guessing game. Might take better stock in someone with more of a posting history on ES. Could have even been shipping damage, could have been purchaser dropped it and doesnt want to fess up, again who knows.

The UPP thread I looked at briefly and never paid much attention it, I have seen Louis' video, and he made a simple circuit to attach two batteries together, with protection methods and diodes built into his circuit. You'd think a guy like that knows what he is doing, and his research skills would be good, fixing cell phones and laptops is a whole other ball game compared to big, high amp, high discharge, kilowatt-hour batteries. I would personally like to get that Aussy "crazy" guy from EEVBlog to chime in on the circuit.

Not suggesting (or secretly thinking) that Justin is masterminding the odd tone of this thread. I'm sure he has much better things to do. I've been part of the Ebike community since 2018 and have the utmost respect for the contribution he has made in product development, business and of course this forum - genuinely.

Just seems really odd that someone posts what seems to be a pretty legitimate complaint (vendor did not deliver the product that was ordered, the incorrect product and the charger both broken, vendor subsequently just ignores any attempt at communication) yet all the replies just tell the OP to either solder on the charge connectors he asked for or buy an adaptor and not to worry at all about a broken battery case because we all like EM3ev.

Granted the title of thread is a little OTT but the defence of EM3ev does not make any sense. Can only imagine what this thread would have looked like if the battery had been purchased from UPP who you can apparently denigrate and defame endlessly. Both Chinese businesses but one has old school colonial ownership - is that the answer or is it just a simple case of "I drank the cool-aid for brand A and will die in a ditch defending them and if you buy any other brand you must be an idiot"

Just want to be clear I cannot and am not commenting on EM3ev product - as I've not done business with them and am not suggesting that I would not either. Simply pointing out that the replies to the OP are nonsensical

 

[Jim Subzero]

Just got an email from Joseph explaining what "partly shipped" means. It means that they sent the order to their shipping agent but have not yet got a USA tracking number from them. Likely, the order will be delivered by FedEx (or maybe UPS). It will be shipped by air from China to an agent in the US who will transfer it to FedEx (or maybe UPS). Joseph assures me I will not be charged any import fees.

Sending me the FedEx tracking no. slipped Joseph's mind. I got one from FedEx and Joseph confirmed that it was my order, the same battery the original poster ordered. It will arrive June 1, DV. I'll post when I've checked it out. I am hopeful.

This battery could provide as much as 100 miles additional range on my Biktrix Juggernaut FS, given that I average about 12Wh/mile on the local mountainous roads.

 

[sleepy_tired]

This thread reminds me why I am absolutely and 100% happy that I don't have to deal with the general public in my professional life.

If you want somebody to hold your hand and concentrate on providing a enhanced brand experience when buying a product then go out and spend your money on a E-bike made by Trek or Specialized or somebody like that with a dealership in your area. You'll pay a shitload of money for that service, too.

For many people it's worth it.

$200 dollar chargers instead of $50 dollar ones. $800 for 500wh batteries instead of $650 for 1000wh ones. $2700 on a bike with less then half the range and 1/3rd of the performance. And in 4 or 5 years when Bosch decides to release a new motor and stops shipping replacement parts to dealerships and your bike breaks down then you get to buy a entire brand new bike and start over from scratch.

Yeah those companies exist to make you feel good. And it costs you. When you pay them for a bike you are not just paying for the bike, but you are also paying for their advertising, calls centers, government lobbyists, lawyers that carefully review every idiotic law and arbitrary policy in every country they sell to, multiple warehouses around the world, dealership networks, private jets, and weekend cocaine and prostitute binge parties to keep the executives happy. That stuff is extremely expensive.

And even then none of that will guarantee that you won't have missing parts in a package and that shipping will always be perfect. You can't spend enough money to eliminate those possibilities.

When you buy inexpensive, rather custom, and good quality products for DIY projects from a small company overseas there needs to be a different set of expectations and some patience involved.

If em3ev frocked up then that sucks and it's on them. If they refuse to deal with you then, yeah, you can be upset. Leave a honest review and keep the incrimination, accusations, speculation and conspiracy theories to yourself.

 

[P3yot3]

This thread reminds me why I am absolutely and 100% happy that I don't have to deal with the general public in my professional life.

I suspect the general public are even happier that you're not dealing with them.

As it has become obvious that EM3ev have absolutely no intention of answering my emails, answering their phone, answering in this thread, replacing the battery for one with the ordered spec or replacing the faulty charger - & now that the bank has begun charge-back proceedings - I might open up the battery to see if anything can be done to wire it to the spec I ordered & paid for. I'll post with my findings.

 

[P3yot3]

Joseph assures me I will not be charged any import fees.

Maybe you could ask Joseph why he is ignoring emails from customers who were sent the wrong items & faulty chargers? I'd be interested to hear his response.

 

[Jim Subzero]

Got the EM3 14s7p battery this afternoon. It was extremely well-packed, and has no apparent physical damage, not even cosmetic damage like Mr Peyote has been fretting over. The connectors are exactly as we agreed. The shipping voltage was 49.9V. I am now charging it up to 56.6V with a Satiator at ~7A. So far, so good.

Not having used the battery yet as a power source for my bike, I am pleased. The proof of the pudding is in the peddling though. It looks great.

 

[Jim Subzero]

I completed a road test today. Battery is fine. Though it has a smart bms no known iOS app communicates with it. Only Android. So, I don't have a detailed idea of what's going on inside, parallel group by parallel group, temperature, &c. Joseph told me that they are working on an iOS app for it. Can't wait; must wait.

As for vendor relations, Joseph has been forthcoming. The product is good; I am happy.

Interesting (to me) side note: The nominal capacity is 1200Wh. I average 12Wh/mile; so, one percent of battery capacity is approximately one mile of range. As I age, I appreciate simple mental arithmetic more.

 

[99t4]

You could buy an old cheap android phone just to interface with the smartBMS.

 

[Tats]

I’ve been using this for my Em3ev BMS on iOS. Hardcase 14s7p 33g - my third battery from them bought about 3 yrs ago, all looked after with a satiator still going strong

https://apps.apple.com/au/app/smart-bms-doctor/id1459971735

 

[P3yot3]

So, an update on my situation with EM3ev:

After supplying my bank with all correspondence & information on my faulty/wrong items EM3ev sent me plus details of their completely non-responsive customer support, a few days ago my bank reversed the payment to EM3ev. A good day indeed as it meant I was no longer out of pocket.

It seems that this was the kick up the backside EM3ev Customer Support needed as, surprise surprise, Joseph has dropped me an email after ignoring me for over 6 weeks - surely just a coincidence that my money was returned just a couple of days earlier....
Anyway, in the interests of transparency & honesty, I am posting my reply here (personal details redacted):

Joseph,

In an effort to keep this matter civilised & hopefully resolve this issue, I would like to make a few things clear in the interests of transparency & honesty. Firstly, we both know that the only reason you have decided to contact me after ignoring my emails for over a month is because my bank have reversed the payment to you, had I not requested them to look into the matter I am sure you would still be ignoring me. I was aware that EM3ev have an excellent reputation for quality batteries & that is why I chose you, but I was also aware that you also have a reputation for terrible marketing & abysmal customer support but was willing to take that risk - was my judgement misplaced? So far it would seem not, but I am willing to give you a chance to redeem your reputation, if you so wish to.

Every picture on your website of the 52v 14S7P rectangular battery pack shows an Anderson change plug, which we also discussed in our emails for solar charging while riding, so it is common sense to presume that what is pictured & described on your site will be what is sent when ordered - there is no mention anywhere on your site or in our email conversations that these need to be requested. The tiny 3 pin charge plug on the battery you sent me is only suitable for charging from the charger (more on that to come), it simply is not capable, suitable or designed to handle the charge rates from a solar array. BTW - I had another email from orders@em3ev this morning saying it was sending me an adapter cable - I have replied requesting that it not be sent for the reasons above - please ensure it is NOT sent as it is wholly inadequate & cannot be used, as I'm sure you're aware of anyway.

Now to the other issues:

The battery was NOT damaged during transit as you say - there was zero damage to the box & it was very well packaged & protected, the damage was there prior to packaging - it simply wasn't checked thoroughly before shipping. Same with the charger, which I dare not use due to the solder rattle. It's a potential fire hazard. I have since bought a Satiator charger at great cost to myself. But all this is irrelevant because you didn't send me what I ordered anyway, so would still need to be replaced weather it was damaged/broken or not.

This solar trike project has a purpose, it will be going on a sponsored round the world trip using only solar power, so much time & thought has gone into using the best suited & quality parts available. Every parts dealer & supplier I've dealt with around the world putting this project together has been excellent & delivered exactly what was promised & provided quality customer support - except EM3ev, which is unfortunate as the battery is probably the most important part of the whole project & would have been invaluable marketing for you.

Once again, let me be clear - I am offering you one final chance to correct this situation once & for all:

Send me a replacement battery (no charger) to the specs I requested that uses the separate charge cable as shown on your website & as we discussed that has been thoroughly checked for damage & is in full working order. As soon as I receive the battery & it is confirmed working/undamaged/to spec I will send the other battery & charger to the address you provided. This is the only way we can resolve this issue as my experience with EM3ev support so far has resulted in all trust being lost.

I realise that people make mistakes Joseph, it's normal. But ignoring customers with genuine concerns in the hope that they will just go away & let you keep their hard-earned money is despicable, unprofessional & shameless behaviour - it's time to do the right thing. No more poor excuses please, let's get this done.

Sincerely,

I have changed the heading of this thread from "Possible Exit Scam" to simply "Abysmal customer support" for now - if EM3ev do the right thing & supply me with a replacement battery to the spec I ordered & what was discussed, I will change the heading accordingly.

It really is quite shocking that customers are forced into this kind of strategy in order to get what they ordered & paid for & get the customer support they deserve. I'll post here if/when I get more news.

Edit: In the meantime, in case EMVev decide to ignore me again, I am looking for another battery provider for my project. I was going to try Luna, but they seem out of stock of pretty much everything atm - so any recommendations of a quality battery provider with solid customer support would be appreciated....

Regards.

 

[cell_man]

Apologies that Joseph missed your earlier emails. You sent 2 emails previously in late April, 2 days apart, that were not responded to. There was no more emails from you, until you put in a charge back on your credit card recently. You did not contact Moon during that period, whom you had been in previous discussions with, to escalate your concerns/get a response. I see Moon exchanged several emails with you prior to receiving your order and afterwards too. Our phones are answered in China time working hours.

1. The charge plug is rated 8A. About double what the charger outputs and much more than any portable solar array would output. The charge socket and the XT90 discharge plug is common. There is a discharge tail included with every battery, you could add on whatever extra cable you want to that lead. We would be happy to provide a charge adapter, you could have asked Moon to forward 1 (you never stated anywhere in the order any special charger requirements).
2. The case is something we CNC from 4mm and 8mm PE plastic. this is a soft plastic, it scratches and dents quite easily, but it doesn't crack. I do not see what i would describe as a crack, I see a gap between 2 parts. It is not meant to be a thing of beauty, it is just something we do in hous and would consider to be much better than shrink wrap.
3. Sorry there was a loose piece of solder in the charger. ST are a well respected charger company, they have passed just about every certification. Our packing staff are pretty busy, this is something that could be easily missed.

You did receive the parts you ordered and so far as we understand it, they function 100% fine. The issues you had, are not what i would describe as huge and they could certainly have been resolved.

Reading your long emails to Joseph with your huge grievances (after you have already had your money back) and seeing this continuous bashing on here frankly makes me lose the will to live.

You have been refunded, as I have much better things to do than continue with this.

 

[cell_man]

Oh no you missed my post then.. this is super bad support and that needs correcting if true. But the product is very likely useful in the case he was actually done wrong.

If i were in these shoes i'd file a paypal claim for a partial refund after inspecting the battery to see if it was useful or not. Or full if it was a bunk product. I've done so before when really getting screwed.

But em3ev has been good to a lot of people here and that's why there may be more apologetics than booers.

Not replying to an email is wrong. Nobody denies that. However, the situation here is actually this:

1. Numerous emails were exchanged with Moon that dealt with the shipping. No effort was made to reach out again to her when Joseph failed to respond to 2 emails sent within a 2 day period. Nobody was ignored for weeks on end, the fact is that this thread was started within a day or 2 of not getting a response to a single email, after numerous back and forth emails had been exchanged on other matters to another staff member in our company. No effort was made in that period to reach out again.
2. Despite what is claimed here, there is clearly nothing seriously wrong. That charge plug is arguably much better than a tail with a pair of Anderson. More reliable, no chance to connect with incorrect phase and safer (not so accessible contacts). If there was a a concern, serious or not, it could have and would have been addressed if an effort to get in touch was made, he only had to get in touch with the person that he had been in contact with already on numerous occasions, when he didn't get a response to the emails in question.
3. Going the route of a charge back, rather than a PayPal claim, is not a serious effort in getting a resolution. Anybody that has a business that receives CC payments, or knows anything about such matters knows that the CC companies are happy to allow their customers to commit blatant fraud. It doesn't matter if parst were clearly delivered, it doesn't matter that you keep the parts and didn't prove anything regards the parts being unfit for purpose, or that you clearly received them (but claim you didn't). the CC companies will give you your money back and not give a crap. If you went into a shop and stole a 1000USD laptop, you would be arrested and maybe go to jail. You order the same laptop, get it delivered to your home, then make up a BS story to your CC company and you can get to keep it and get your money back, no questions asked.

Not getting a response to an email, doesn't give anyone the right to steal a companies product and on top of that go out or your way to hurt their reputation. I have refunded already (or at least i did click on that option). We have far better things to do that waste more time and effort on this situation and this individual. If this product is returned to our UK address (and we would provide a payment to sender to cover their costs), i will update that fact here. If not, well, you make up your own mind regards what happened here.

I am guessing you might not hear back from this guy. He got a free battery and charger after playing the CC system and playing this forum too. Cool!

 

[cell_man]

For clarity, here is a list of the emails received across our company regards this order 27380. you make up your own mind looking at the timeline of what actually occurred if we were unresponsive (or not) and how much effort was really put into finding a resolution to an issue (regardless of how valid or invalid those concerns were).

 

[neptronix]

cell_man:

I have censored the user's email address and full name from the above image ( we now have a rule about exposing a user's personal information without their consent ). I don't think you did this out of malice in any way.

The whole outcome of this just sucks and i hope you can find a way to prevent these sorts of things from happening in the future.
I am glad we at least heard your side of the story now.

 

[NoFanBoiz]

It's time moderators changed this thread title to
EM3ev WARNING - abysmal customer.

 

[NoFanBoiz]

Cell_man, I may have read this incorrectly, but did you refund him and he also got a chargeback? If so, you need to tell your payment processor that you had already refunded him so you get the chargeback refunded.

 

[cell_man]

Cell_man, I may have read this incorrectly, but did you refund him and he also got a chargeback? If so, you need to tell your payment processor that you had already refunded him so you get the chargeback refunded.

I agreed to refund after the charge back. The money was already pulled as far as I know. Should be fine.