eMax-ebikes BBS01 350w Ping 36v10ah vs Dillinger 250w front

[Tats]

This review should probably be read in conjunction with byebyepetrol's review of the BBS01 and Dillinger kits. His two reviews were the main influences in my choice of kits.

After running the Dillinger 36v 250w front hub kit on a Giant Talon 29er for about 3,000 kms I realised that I was looking for something additional to this system. Don't get me wrong the Dillinger kit was/is great - 32 km/h on the flat with me pedalling, easy install, good quality - I was looking for a bit more speed on the flat for extra safety.

You might ask why more speed equals more safety, the answer is simple. On my 20k each way commute at 32 km/h there are a lot of casual road bike riders that want to get past you, only to slow down and wobble around on the rises causing log jams. So I was looking for 35km/h on the flat with pedalling to be able to just keep ahead of them avoiding the traffic compression. After trying a Lyen controller on the Dillinger hub it became apparent that while this was an improvement I wasn't going to get the speed I wanted sticking with 36v on this motor.

I purchased the BBS01 350w kit minus battery from Ewan (eMax on this forum) at emax-ebikes.com.au in NSW Australia after discussing the BBS02 500w as I was keeping the Dillinger battery for the short term. I was originally thinking that I would later upgrade the controller and battery to 48v. After a good chat with Ewan he suggested the bbs01 350w for my riding needs and he was spot on. The 350w can very easily cruise above 40 kmh on the flat and has the added advantage I think of being lighter and a bit stealthier than the BBS02.

Running the BBS01 on the Dillinger battery designed for a small hub motor however was an issue. The volts would sag under any real load causing low voltage cut-outs. Leaving the battery on extended charge to balance the cells better improved things a lot, but I still had to baby the system and avoid any volt drops below 34v. This was a pain as the commute has hills at both ends of the ride. So after about 250kms I decided to change battery for a 36v one that had minimal sag.

After much research here and discussions with Paul at EM3EV and Ping it came down to a downtube from Paul or Ping's 36v10ah in my rack bag. Either would do but the Ping won me over as I could get back my bottle mounts to put my drinks bottle back there instead of on my top-tube, I use my rack bag anyway and the battery occupies minimal space and the voltage curve under load is extremely flat.

The install was easy after removing my old cranks from the BB with a LOT of persuasion. The cabling of the kit is good quality and neat - I've used Anderson connectors. The BB of the Giant Talon 29er was not 68mm as the Giant web-site says - it was 73mm, but the BBS01 went on a treat.

I can now average 33kmh on the 20k commute using between 4.7 and 5.2 ah regardless of headwinds but if I was to go easier then the economy would increase significantly. I reckon 40+kms out of the battery averaging 30kmh would be a piece of cake. I can recommend all of the guys listed here eMax, Dillinger, Lyen, EM3EV and Ping - I can recommend a bbs01 350w and a Ping 36v10ah - and I definitely recommend this forum.

 

[2old]

Great review and information from you as always. What is top speed on the flats with your system with relatively vigorous pedaling?

 

[Tats]

Definitely too fast for commuting .

More than 46 kmh on level 9 adding 10.8 amps past gwelup coming from the city last Friday- this is a closed path and reasonably smooth and still had plenty of speed in reserve. Full throttle adds 18amps....don't know how quick it'd really be, but certainly up with the really quick Lycra crew.

 

[mfj197]

Good review, thanks Rich. Sounds like it is working well for you!

Michael

 

[Tats]

600kms all good. Regular dry lube on the chain really helps keep things smooth. Very happy with this setup now.

Here are some pics of the Ping 36v 10ah in my Topeak MTX DX Trunk Bag - this is the one with expanding top, but without the zip out panniers. I have cut up some cork floor tile and taped it to the battery to add some protection from any stray pointy edges. The battery has the standard BMS.

 

[Tats]

Got passed by a Specialized Turbo this morning - took me 6kms of vigorous pedalling and full throttle to catch him....feeling it now.

He could do in the low 40 kmhs easier than I could with less pedal input so it must be an unrestricted one. I'd heard that they weren't very good but I'd have to disagree, I wouldn't be able to keep up over the 20k commute and the bike looks neat and well built too. They are however quite a lot of cash and I would guess pretty hard/expensive to fix if anything packs in.

 

[2old]

The outcome might be different if you had his rims and tires since, I a$$ume that you have MTB tires/rims.

 

[Tats]

29er with Touring tyres. That thing was quick in the low 40s. I could go quicvker but needed a lot of effort

 

[2old]

Then he may have had a weight advantage since his wallet was about $4000 lighter.

 

[Tats]

1,000 kms - all good. In fact way better than good.

Full gas pedalling hard is a very fast 35+ average km/h (read way too fast) commute, setting Strava KOMs on just about every sector, using about 6 aH for 20kms - Strava flags this type of ride as "possibly using a vehicle" and takes them off the leaderboard the next day lol. Range on the lumpy ride I have is therefore somewhere between minimum ballistic 33 and cruisy 70 kms depending on the assist, hills and my input. Haven't tried to empty the battery yet. Probably going to need a chain soon and will check sprocket too as trying hard at 43-48 on the flat I'm pushing a bit of wind out of the way.

To quote Guy Martin - "Sucking Rabbits out of the hedgerows" - can't imagine what a 48v 750w must be like

 

[Tats]

1,535 Kms - BBS01 kit and Ping 36v all good.

Everything still works and hasn't needed tightening. Only maintenance has been weekly dry lube on the chain and little bit of adjustment to the rear derailleur cable.

 

[dogman dan]

This a multi use trail? When you do come to others on such a trail, 40 kph passing is definitely rude and possibly dangerous.

Not so much a problem passing bikes, I mean passing walkers, who have a bad habit of weaving around on the trail, never checking their 6.

 

[Tats]

Agree completely that pedestrians need a much slower passing speed and bikes need an appropriate speed differential. I absolutely do not pass them at such speeds and focus on safety and good manners as a priority with all other road users - much like yourself no doubt. I was surprised by your comment.

 

[Tats]

Chain slip when standing on pedals let me know I needed a new one...

60 minutes to change cassette (put on an 11-32T) & chain and the bikes better than it's ever been. http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/au/en/shimano-xt-m770-9sp-cassette-chain-bundle/rp-prod126471

Front BCD adapter to change the front ring (sticking with 48T) on its way from eMax.

 

[Tats]

All good - chain & cluster going great.

 

[Tats]

Need new tyres and brake pads - bbs01 and ping 36v10ah still faultless.



Strong headwind today-here is the wh from cycle analyst

 

[Tats]

Upgrade time.... This time the bike. The giant talon 29er has been great doing all up about 6,000 e-kms but it's needing some time and money. The front fork and brake discs need some tlc, the rear tyre needs changed and the rear derailleur cable is stretched and the derailleur sticky. So...I've managed to source a used good condition dually - giant reign with a suitable bb for the bbs01. Guess what I'll be doing over Xmas

 

[Tats]

First challenge-how to mount the rear bag that holds my battery. I have a topeak explorer fixed rack on the 29er and the reign doesn't have rack mounts so that won't work. I have my old beam rack but changed that as the coupling to the seat stay was developing a bit of play-and my seatpost got a bit of a bend too. So here is mock up bracing mk1...ss pipe clamp around the seat post, 2 galvanised brackets from this down to a u bolt on the beam rack triangulating the load. In theory this should be more than adequate for reducing the load on the weld points on the beam and the coupling. Once I have this fitting properly I'll trim the brackets, remove sharp edges and paint black. I've cut up an old tube and superglued this below the two clamp mounting points for friction and paint protection. I'll insert something in the seat post to alleviate the load where that goes in the frame. Option 2 if this doesn't work, I'll just go for the Thule pack n pedal on the rear swing arm.

 

[Tats]

It's not pretty and needs a little touch up but it sure is functional. I'll add locknuts and trim the excess, but I'm calling this a success. Parts were 2 plumbing hanging brackets, 1 stainless steel hose clamp 30-35mm and one 32mm u bolt. Mounted high to allow for full suspension travel.

 

[Tats]

Assembled and ridden - it's very very comfy. Dual suspension is definitely recommended.

No cable ties so not finished yet, just taped up the cables until I get to the hardware store tomorrow.

 

[Tats]

Finished!

The giant reign chain line on the 07 frame is spot on. I've used the same rear magnet for the bbs01 and CA v2 using two different stays on the left side for the wires. Had to add packing behind the CA pickup (cork floor tile). To keep the wiring down and the cockpit clean I've put the CA in the frame bag near the seatpost. I don't look at it when I'm riding so it's no problem there. The two frame bags are 5 dollar auction site specials and carry 2 tubes, 2 gas, levers, Allan keys etc and house/cover the excess cable. Used an old tube to wrap/protect the bafang speed sensor wire. Haven't gone more than 1k but runs nice up and down hill with a very smooth ride - I'll report back how it goes over my usual route. I expect it to be slightly slower with the 26 knobblies vs the 29 tourers. The bracing for the rear rack is working great.

 

[Tats]

20km at 31.75 km/h and 13.5 Wh/km - not as slow as I thought, especially considering I had the seat too high for half of it. The knobblies make a nice sound but the bike feels twitchy when you drop into a turn - need to get some slicks. Riding like that on the 29er I'd only be an average 2 km/h faster if that.
Haven't adjusted the shocks but the setup is too firm for the bike path tree root bumps. Even so it's soooo comfy compared to the talon and just feels much much stronger. I drop off a kerb on the ride and jump to soften the bump on the talon and this morning completely mistimed it. The bike didn't even notice, just rode straight off the thing and stayed flat with no bounce. The rd is a sram x9 and shifts super fast and positive compared to the cheap alivio. Avid juicy 3 brakes are much better for the ride with a bit of bite to them now over the tektro I had.
The bbs on this bike works really really nice and I'd recommend a 2nd hand reign that's been cared for over a brand new talon - just check the bb size and when installing the bbs check clearance to the maestro rear lower pivot on the drive size as it's quite tight. I didn't have to take anything off the bafang housing but thought about it. When I service the bearings next I may just grind a mm off with a dremel.

 

[Tats]

Windy during test ride - 15kms average 32kmh. I dropped front shock psi and took out 3 clicks of rebound and it's much better. On the rear I switched off the lockout (doh!) and is smooth as. Climbs really well when seated too - much much better than the talon. Uses less wh from the battery too.

 

[Tats]

Wasn't happy with the clearance between the bbs housing and the lower link bolt in the drive side, so I put in a spacer I had on the original hollow tech bb. Much better.

 

[Tats]

With the Maxxis downhill tyres I'm averaging the same speeds as the 29er with conti touring tyres. Just fitted Schwalbe big apples with mr tuffy liners and thorn proof tubes 26x2.15 and it seems to roll much better, certainly a lot quieter. Tyres off the well known auction site were 30 Australian pesos each #bargain. Also changed valve in rear shock as it seemed to be getting softer. Summary: it's like riding a leather Chesterfield sofa - so comfy and easy.