Epik Whistler

Got my place names mixed up. I meant the Logan. (Mt. Logan is in the Yukon, BTW!!)
The bike will be ready this Friday (May 10th) , but I won't be in Vancouver again until the 23rd, so you should have a demo prior to that. I assume you'll start a new thread devoted to the Logan.
 
wsw said:
Got my place names mixed up. I meant the Logan. (Mt. Logan is in the Yukon, BTW!!)
The bike will be ready this Friday (May 10th) , but I won't be in Vancouver again until the 23rd, so you should have a demo prior to that. I assume you'll start a new thread devoted to the Logan.
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Since all Epik bikes have essentially the same motor I doubt that I will need to start a new thread. Melody emailed me that they will not receive a Logan for me to test until after May 15. It scares me that I might fall in love with the Logan because I cannot afford another e-bike right now. Meanwhile, I love the weather we are getting here in BC. It is actually warmer than TORONTO was last week. I have been riding 100 kilometres every day since I got back.
 
magic carpet said:
[quote
You might find your battery will last a lot longer if you give it a chance (and the charger) to cool down once in a while. If you're gonna use it to 'replace' your car, buy a second battery and charger. I think you'll find the design NOT to be proprietorial and available through several different manufacturers.
.
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__________________________________



The actual battery design is very common but the bullet connectors at the base of the battery appear to be unique to Epik. Whenever I am able to find an image of the bottom of a waterbottle battery it looks considerably different from the one on my Epik. If you know of any sellers of these batteries who provide pictures of their bottom matching Epik's, please let me know. I would love to get my hands on a couple of spare batteries for considerably under the retail price of $700. each. Bill
 
WASYLBRYTAN,

to get idea what Whistler is really about you must compare apple with apple,
namely compare with THE best Bottom Bracket systems out there !
PANASONIC is the workhorse of BB drives with rock solid reliability, BOSH BB is another one.
Only when you compare to the best you can have idea what is it.
I tried different BB drives and in all of them one thing decides about riding experience :
HOW SMOOTH assist kicks in.
ON one end is MERIDA bb drive /I own for a long time/ is essentially on/off ,very primitive analog design.
On other end
on BOSH BB drive you don't even notice when assist kick in , wonderfully smooth and much more quet than MERIDA.
 
miro13car said:
WASYLBRYTAN,
so how is it after bitter experience with MagicPie3 " China engineering" ???
to get idea what Whistler is really about you must compare apple with apple,
namely compare with THE best Bottom Bracket systems out there !
PANASONIC is the workhorse of BB drives with rock solid reliability, BOSH BB is another one.
Only when you compare to the best you can have idea what is it.
I tried different BB drives and in all of them one thing decides about riding experience :
HOW SMOOTH assist kicks in.
Click to expand...
You must have me confused with someone else; I have never had the Magic Pie. The only other mid drive bike I have is the IGO URBAN which is the same as the TONARO COMPY. My EPIK WHISTLER is superior in every way and is the best bike I have ever had. Bill
 
Hi guys. Last week, my wife won a new Epik bike after having her name drawn as the grand prize winner at Ride to Work week at BCIT. We are really excited about this opportunity and met with Melody yesterday at the MEC bike fair in N. Van to try the various models out. We were given the choice between the Whistler and the Banff, but after riding the Logan (which is very similar to the hybrid that my wife has been commuting on) we decided to put a little extra money in to make up the difference and ordered the Logan.

The folks at Epik are really passionate about their product and in fact, they mentioned their ongoing development and refinement and some of the case history that I assume is from high-mileage individuals who have contributed to this thread. I am very impressed about their ongoing r&d and refinement program. They mentioned that a belt drive model is in the prototype stages and that there may be an opportunity in the future for purchasers to upgrade their bikes to belt drive when it becomes generally available (although it may require a different frame).

Anyway, my question is about the battery and charging. I have already downloaded and read the manual (we will not be getting the bike for a week or two). The manual seemed to indicate that the charging system needs to be monitored to prevent over-charging. Specifically, they stated not to charge over night, but to limit charging to 4-6 hours. I was wondering how others are handling this. Do you use some kind of a timer to cut the power to the charger? My wife will be commuting on the the bike and will likely be charging over night.
 
GlenT said:
Anyway, my question is about the battery and charging. I have already downloaded and read the manual (we will not be getting the bike for a week or two). The manual seemed to indicate that the charging system needs to be monitored to prevent over-charging. Specifically, they stated not to charge over night, but to limit charging to 4-6 hours. I was wondering how others are handling this. Do you use some kind of a timer to cut the power to the charger? My wife will be commuting on the the bike and will likely be charging over night.
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The suggestion not to charge the battery overnight is a very safe precaution since lithium ion batteries tend to be unstable, creating a lot of heat and sometimes catching fire. However, the chance of such a disaster is becoming smaller each year as lithium ion batteries become more and more refined, especially with the advent of battery maintenance boards which cut off all power to the battery if the heat gets too high. One of the major advantages of the lithium imide battery is high heat stability. All that being said, I always try to monitor my battery while it is charging but if I can't, I don't obsess about it. I always try to empty my battery as much as possible before going to bed so that the time on the charger will never exceed a full charge by more than 2 hours or so. If I must charge overnight, I don't plug it in until immediately before bedtime and I disconnect it immediately upon waking. If possible, monitor the battery and charger for 8 hours during the day and feel them for heat to the touch. If you do this a few times and the charger is not getting hot, then you are probably safe to charge overnight.
 
Thanks for your reply. Having had experience with several cheaper cordless drills, I am more concerned about shortening the battery life by overcharging. Smart changers sense the battery state and then stop charging, but it sounds like the Epic bikes are not using a smart charger (can you confirm?).

Having said that, there are solutions. I have found a couple of inexpensive plug-in count-down timers (one made by Belkin, another by Woods) that have simple, selectable count-down cycles in the 4, 6 and 8 hour ranges. These are not timers that run on a schedule, but only start when you press a button and then turn off after the selected amount of time. I've seen them on Amazon.com. So I will probably plan on buying one of those.

One object will be to maximize battery life.
 
GlenT said:
Thanks for your reply. Having had experience with several cheaper cordless drills, I am more concerned about shortening the battery life by overcharging. Smart changers sense the battery state and then stop charging, but it sounds like the Epic bikes are not using a smart charger (can you confirm?).
One object will be to maximize battery life.
Click to expand...

I am certain that my charger (Epik Whistler) is a smart charger because it cools down when the green light goes on to indicate that it is no longer charging. I deep cycle my battery on a daily basis, sometimes even twice daily and I have not noticed any difference in capacity from when it was new. In four months I have put on 8300 kilometres so I can guarantee I am being very hard on my battery. This is an amazing battery. I just wish it had a little higher capacity. Bill
 
That's great to know, thanks. Looking forward to receiving our Epik bike! Thanks for all of your info here. This has been really helpful.
 
I picked up my Logan two weeks ago and as a casual rider & a long time retiree, I can attest that you have made a wise choice GlenT. From a non-rider for the last few years, I have already put on 83km in less than 2 weeks. (I have no intention of trying to emulate WASYLBRYTAN) - though I agree with him that the bike is great value for money. It is well balanced and feel quite safe coasting down hills at over 45KMH.
I had Melody add the Nuvinci 360 and it is fantastic. I really appreciate not having derailleurs to adjust.
I can change gearing at any time, whether I am pedalling or not. Well worth the additional $, in my opinion.
I will try to post some pictures tonight.
 
It is really great seeing initial reports on the Logan. Melody tells me their demo Logan is constantly spoken for at shows etc. so I will not be able to get one for testing until tomorrow or a bit later. Melody told me I could have it for two weeks so I should be able to weed out all of its flaws by then(if it has any).
 
Pictures as promised.You will notice the absence of a derailleur.
The battery is well balanced and does not get in the way when pedalling. The battery locks on to a frame attachment.
There is also an on/off switch. (Little green thing at the bottom of the battery.)
There is also a button at the top of the battery with four LED's to indicate the battery level.
The only strange thing is that the battery has to be switched to 'On' to charge the battery.
The kickstand and fenders are standard.
P1000710.jpeg

View attachment 2 The motor is attached directly to the crank.
View attachment 1
P1000709.jpeg Gear 'shifting' is effortless and can be done while you are pedalling.
There is a visual display on the handle bar. I'll send pics of it tomorrow.
You can see the kickstand attached to the other side of the bike.
Its a skoookum stand, and quite stable on level surfaces.
 
Here is the 'High gear' settingP1000714.jpg

P1000715.jpg
and the 'Low gear setting'. This is infinitely variable from High to Low with a twist of the grip.

P1000716.jpg
The black section on the handle bar is the 'gear changer'
 
How much weight did the Nuvinci 360 add to the bike? Does it require power?
 
GlenT said:
How much weight did the Nuvinci 360 add to the bike? Does it require power?
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The spec sheet says 2450grams, which sounds a lot lighter than 5.4 lb. However, I don't think that it is noticeable when you're riding.
The gear doesn't require any power. You'll find full details on the Fallbrook site. http://www.fallbrooktech.com/cycling/n360.
In my opinion, its worth the extra money to have EPIK install it. You won't regret the decision.
All the reviews I've read about it say that it is maintenance free.

I changed the controller up to 40kmh max setting. What a difference from the 32kmh setting.
I was finding 32KMH to be very limiting on level roads.
At 32kmh, you could definitely feel motor resistance as the cut out came into effect.
You could pedal past the 32km, but you were really aware of the pedal effort being greater.
Now, with the 40kmh setup, I can tootle along at 35kmh on level roads effortlessly..
 
My wife and I both had the opportunity to test ride the Logan, Whistler and Banff back to back at the Epik's bike booth at Bike Fest this past weekend. This is probably the loaner that you will be getting.

We found the Logan to have a more upright riding position than the Whistler (but not as upright as the Banff) but the big difference was that the Whistler is set up to steer more quickly, where the logan is slower turning (hence more linearly stable) when riding on the street. We much preferred the Logan for street/commuting purposes as it felt very similar to bikes we currently own.

I felt that the 8 speed made better use of the motor torque than the 3 speed hub on the Banff. Some riding on loose gravel confirmed that lower settings (one or two) were reasonably smooth for engagement of the motor and it did not take more than a few minutes to feel confident with the motor interactions.
 
Melody just emailed me to come and pick up the Logan for testing on Thursday afternoon. Thanks for giving me the preview to whet my appetite. Meanwhile, I took my Whistler for its first real tuneup after 8300 kilometres and it is already finished which is blindingly fast. Bikes For All is an excellent Vancouver dealership which does high quality work very quickly. Bill
 
Well, my long anticipated test of the Logan turned out to be a disappointment. I used up one battery charge today and I don't feel like riding it anymore. I am having all kinds of problems with the NUVINCI hub and I think I prefer derailleurs. Sorry to disappoint anyone who was looking forward to my review but the results of my ride were extremely unexciting.
 
Sorry to hear that Bill. My Nuvinci continues to work flawlessly.
Hope the fix is a simple one.

I did find that the battery required a few discharge/charge cycles before the range improved.
 
WASYLBRYTAN said:
Well, my long anticipated test of the Logan turned out to be a disappointment. I used up one battery charge today and I don't feel like riding it anymore. I am having all kinds of problems with the NUVINCI hub and I think I prefer derailleurs. Sorry to disappoint anyone who was looking forward to my review but the results of my ride were extremely unexciting.
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Well, maybe that's good thing, given that you already bought the Whistler. ;) My wife got to try the Logan with the Nuvinci hub at a show and tell at BCIT yesterday and really liked it, so we are going with it. I think for commuting it will be a good match with the motor. It does look like you have to know what you are doing when you set it up and that under heavy load, shifter resistance increases.

Since you ride at the top end, what did you think about the top end gear range? The Logan has 700C wheels on it, so I guess that alone makes it taller than the Whistler.
 
GlenT said:
Since you ride at the top end, what did you think about the top end gear range? The Logan has 700C wheels on it, so I guess that alone makes it taller than the Whistler.
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I realize you are directing your question to Bill, but I'll add my 2¢ worth.
All my riding so far has been on paved roads. I find the gearing at the top end fine, but as I mentioned in an earlier post, only after I 'maxed out' the throttle limiter to 40kmh. At a comfortable pedalling rate for me, on a level road, the display indicates a speed of 35-36kmh.

The Logan is 31 inches from ground to the seat post lock.
 
Thanks WSW, when I said 'taller' I was refering to gearing, in that larger wheels will give a higher speed with the same gearing and pedal RPMs. This question comes from one of the other reviews that I read, which implied that on a non-EV bike, the top speed with the N360 hub was about 20 mph (or roughly 32 kph) which was the limiter speed on the Epik bikes. You've pretty much answered my question in that regard. I'm going to assume that with smaller wheels, the Whistler is going to feel more powerful, and will be lighter (by as much as 8 lbs) than the Logan with or without the N360 hub.

I am interested in comments about the force required to shift up under load, given that the Epik motor assist is going to put more torque on the shifter mechanism at the top end than (pehaps) a cyclist normally would be capable of doing. Wondering out loud if this was one of the issues that Bill experienced yesterday.

The other issues that seem to be common is not installing the N360 when it is pre-set to the overdrive position and not getting the cable slack correct. Also, there appears to be some break-in resistance that reduces once the N360 has run for a while. Wondering if these things are contributing to Bill's initial disappointment.
 
I have been following this thread from the beginning. I have considerable interest in the Epik ebike and that interest has only increased with the addition of the Logan model. Pleased to see a bigger frame. Also very good to see that standard equipment for the Logan includes fenders and kickstand. For a commuter bike with a bottom bracket drive, the Nuvinci makes a lot of sense. Should yield many miles of no maintenance biking. I hope that Epik bikes get exported to the US soon. Thanks for posting all of the info. Look forward to hear more about your experiences
Rich
 
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