Ezee motor doesn't start always

[babo]

Hi,

I noticed in this forum many competent people on this subject so I am writing hoping someone might know and help.
I have Ezee Sprint for over 7 years, actively driven it in snow and rain, all year round (Finland). It didn't have easy time with me

Now recently, it started making troubles, motor not starting rotating in every occasion, sometimes works and when it works it rides with no problems but sometimes it doesn't start no matter you do.
Trying to cope with it I cleaned and checked the throttle, cables but found no problems.
Then after I disabled the pedal sensor I managed to find the temporary cure in case motor doesn't start rotating the wheel.
When I switch on the controller (LED lights up showing no problems) and if throttle doesn't start the motor (remember I disabled pedal sensor) I bring the front fork up enough that the wheel is above the ground and while I keep throttle twisted lightly I rotate the front wheel backwards a little bit. The motor opposes to it and jerks the wheel very little to the front. Couple of times like that (I am guessing: depending on the wheel position) and the motor starts rotating the wheel. After that the motor runs with no problems. Stopping doesn't affect it, switching off doesn't bother either, it just works, which confuses me.

When I reach the destination and leave the bike, next day I switch it on the probability that it won't start at once is around 80%.

I was guessing the hall sensor but I never opened the motor so I am not sure if that would bring me any nearer.

Is there anyone who recognizes something familiar in this behavior and could lead me where to start "digging"?

Thanks for any help in advance!

Babo

 

[d8veh]

Although I don't think that this is the cause, you should eliminate it as a possibility. Try disconnecting the brake switches as a temporary measure to see if it improves. many of the brake switches will go towards being "on" as they wear.

I'm also interested in other replies because I have a dual motor bike and it was working perfectly, and then recently I bought two new controllers of the same type as I had before and relocated them externally to run cooler. After the installation, I got the same problem as you on both motors. Sometimes a motor just clunks when I open the throttle, sometimes ticking noise, and then after several attempts it starts from half throttle, and then it starts running normally. It's the same for both motors although the back one is slightly better than the front. I have one throttle with two hall sensors - one for each controller.

 

[babo]

Hi d8veh,

Unfortunately this is not the case as my Ezee Sprint came without those switches. The first bike I had was exchanged under warranty and I got a newer "model" which didn't include those switches. I was a little bit confused of that change but I just wanted a bike which worked at that moment.
So, thanks for reply. I can just confirm that the brake switches are not the cause of the problem for sure

Babo

 

[dogman dan]

Typically something like this will be a poor contact at a hall sensor wire. But it's possible that you have a hall sensor actually acting up occasionaly.

You might try replacing the plugs for the halls, or just adding jumper wires temporarily to bypass the plug and see if that improves things.

Ever had the motor apart? By now, you could have an amazing amount of condensation water in there. So maybe some corrosion inside is shorting a halls wire?

 

[babo]

Thanks dogman,

Obviously with or without having the hall sensor being wrong/broken I need to open the motor and have a look in general.
I will update this post for further reference if it could help to others regarding the results I find. I try doing it this week
Thanks to all again!

Babo

 

[babo]

Hi,

Though I doubt this info will help anyone with the similar problem I will update it.

I opened the motor and found nothing to fix. The inside was clean and dry, I was surprised to find it in so good shape considering the mistreatment I am giving to it
I tried to see if there is anything hanging or lacking contact and found nothing like that. All looks perfect, at least to my eye.

After installing the behavior was the same.
I continued cycling and using it like describe above. I manage to start it each time it stops the same way moving the wheel backwards etc.
Some subjective thought was in my mind that the amount of stopping depends on the air humidity but I lack the proof taking into account that way too many times when I had the perfectly wet and humid day the amount of stops was smaller than usual.

Now it is winter, I am driving it the same way, the problem doesn't show any worse in -10 than it is on +5C.

I guess, I will continue like this until something breaks fully and then I perhaps replace it

Babo

 

[Diamondback]

try looking on the side of the controller when the motor will not start.

there should be a little red led. this led flashes a given number of flashes for a given problem.
the ezee controllers have a self diagnosis function built in. how do i know this ?

one of my ezee kits had a similar problem a while ago, the led was flashing 8 times.
8 flashes = bad hall sensor / connection.

my motor would sometimes just quit responding to the throttle at all (no pedal sensor).
in my case, it was a wire had come loose from one of the hall sensor connectors on the motor.
it was buried under goo too.

hope this helps.

Jason.

 

[dogman dan]

Still sounds like a problem in the plug to the hall sensors wires to me. Or possibly a dead hall sensor inside, which cannot be checked by visual inspection.

Very cool the controller has a self testing function!!!

Does that controller go into a default sensorless mode? It sounds a bit like starting a sensorless motor that needs pedal first. But with a gearmotor, pedal first would have no effect because of the internal freewheel. Turn it backwards though, and a sensorless motor would detect that, and then start it going forward.

If you got that motor from Grin, talk to them about troubleshooting it. They know the system, I don't.

 

[Diamondback]

im not sure if it goes into sensor-less mode or not.

when mine was acting up, it just stopped altogether. though i never thought about turning it backwards.....

Jason.

 

[babo]

Thanks Diamondback and dogman!

Yes, I was looking into the controller but unfortunately it behaves weird.
About 10% of times when the motor stops responding to the throttle the LED flashes like you mentioned 8 times. In these cases switch off/on helps, the motor immediately starts running after touching the throttle.
The other 90% of times it just stops responding, the LED lights like nothing bad happened, no flashes, but the motor doesn't work. The only way i found to start it again is this turning the wheel backwards.

If the LED would always flash i would be more ready to dig into the wires but somehow the majority of times when it stops it doesn't give any troubleshooting info.

I did contact 2 places and on both places they suspected the throttle which I tested so heavily and didn't appear to be broken.

I agree with you, most probably the contact to those wires is the cause but I just don't manage to find it. Also, it confuses me that no matter how much of vibration I have during drive they seem not to affect the malfunction. The moment it stops is in any type of drive, smooth ride vs. "jumping" over holes, all the same. This makes me somehow insecure in taking the guts out of the motor and try more carefully to find the bad wire.

Babo

 

[Diamondback]

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=36819&p=674846&hilit=ezee+hall#p674846

the above is the thread where i was having similar problems, though not exactly the same.
there are some pictures that show where my problem was located.

these may (or mat not) assist you in the search.

Jason.

 

[John in CR]

If it's that old, is it a brushed motor or brushless? It sounds like worn out brushes to me, ie you turn it some under power and starts to go, and then they warm up for better contact and it works fine until it sits and fully cools off.

 

[babo]

It's brushless motor.
@Diamonback: I will check the inside again and see if something can be seen.

Babo

 

[fechter]

It sounds pretty much like a motor hall sensor problem. The most likely place to fail is at the connector between the motor and controller. In this case, it seems to be intermittent. The hall sensor signals can be checked with a voltmeter at the connector, but it must be powered on. A good signal will alternate between 0v and 5v as the motor is slowly turned by hand.

Take a close look at the connector and make sure the contacts are tight and the wires are properly attached to the connector pins. Sometimes a pin will get pushed into the connector body so it's too short.

A motor with one bad hall sensor can still run (though rough) on the remaining two. It won't start from all positions by itself, but will start from others. It will always start if you spin it first. Usually in the non-start positon, it will make a growling sound or shudder a bit when you give it throttle.

Another possibility is a problem in the controller. Since the problem is intermittent, it is most likely a bad connection somewhere.

 

[dogman dan]

Another potential place for a bad connection would be where the hall sensor wires solder onto the boad inside the controller. Maybe soldered poorly there? But very very often, its in the plug contacts. it's not impossible that a defect in the wire to the motor is present. It's even possible to have broken strands inside the insulation, that still appears ok.

Lots of possibilites, but it really does sound like it might be running on two halls at times to me. Once in a while, it lands on the dead one, and then won't start till you move the stator by rolling backwards. Backwards because the freeweeling if you roll forwards. That sounds like the key clue to me.

 

[babo]

Thanks a lot to all!

All clues were very useful. Yes, the motor makes the growling sound when it stops. Not always but it does that. When that happens the switch off/on is enough. In other cases it is the backwards turning which does the trick.
Thanks once more. I will investigate further though as mentioned in many posts the problem might be very well hidden. Luckilly it still somehow runs

Babo

 

[Samd]

Might be worth buying or borrowing a cheap chinese ~$30 sensored/sensorless controller and seeing if the behavior still persists running it sensored. Then try unplugging the hall wires and try it unsensored. Postage to finland may cost you though if you cannot borrow one! Hyva!

 

[fechter]

Thanks a lot to all!

All clues were very useful. Yes, the motor makes the growling sound when it stops. Not always but it does that. When that happens the switch off/on is enough. In other cases it is the backwards turning which does the trick.
Thanks once more. I will investigate further though as mentioned in many posts the problem might be very well hidden. Luckilly it still somehow runs

Babo

It really sounds like one of the hall signals is missing. It's best to measure the signal lines with a voltmeter to see which one is missing. It's usually a bad connection anywhere from the sensor inside the motor all the way to the controller circuit board. Sometimes the sensor itself goes bad. Sometimes the controller board could go bad, but that one is least likely.

 

[jateureka]

babo,
did you get this fault sorted out?