eZee Sprint ECO question

[bluesoleli]

Hi Everyone,

My name is Steve and I am new to the Endless Sphere forum. I was referred to here by the owner of an electric bicycle shop here in Sydney, Australia. I am in the market for a new e-bike to make my daily commute a bit easier. I currently have a Mongoose Tyax Sport and a Honda Civic for my travel needs... obviously the bike gets used more because of the gas prices these days, plus I'd prefer no more shopping dents on my brand new car!

I've visited the local e-bike store and the seller was quite helpful... and told me to come here to get more advice before coming back to make a purchase decision. I basically spent a good 3 hours trying every bike he had on sale and I really liked the eZee Sprint ECO. The first reason was the price, the second reason was that my mother could get onto it as opposed to the diamond frame bikes and the third reason was because it had a throttle.

This isn't the normal Sprint, but the ECO model... which I can't find any facts on the motor gear! Looks just like the full Sprint but with no computer and a 250W (or is it 200W?) speed limited motor...

The main differences according to the seller are:

The key features that have shaved $500 off the price tag compared to the eZee Sprint are:

* no cycle computer

* V-brake front instead of disc brake

* Shimano Nexus 3 speed internal gearing instead of the Nexus 8

* Kenda puncture proof tyres rather than the Schwalbe Marathon Plus

* not supplied with the AXA wheel lock

* not supplied with an EAF. This means it has a throttle only and can be set in 'e-bike mode' or 'pedal assist mode' but will be operated just with a hand throttle.

* 25kph limited. This is not a software limit, it's a physical change achieved by reducing the nominal rpm of the motor. For the tech-heads, that means changing the thickness and wrap-count of the motor's copper cable windings. The end result is that the motor does not want to go faster than 25kph. The flipside of this is that it is even happier going up steep hills and if you've ever experienced an eZeebike making fun of a hill, this is really saying something! You're also likely to go further on a battery charge with this setup.

* 2A charger instead of a 4A charger.

* Rear light is powered by the battery but is not the Dutch Spanninga brand as seen on the Sprint 8.

So that's what I've gathered so far...

The eZee website doesn't even list the ECO model so that's not much help to me. All I know is that it's $500 cheaper and it has a throttle just like the full Sprint which was a selling point for me. I did feel the full Sprint was more powerful in torque but it might be a placebo effect or the battery was kinda low on the ECO (showing red light)...

Any tips before I put down $1800 would be great. The store has been helpful so far but I'd like to get a bit more info here.

Thanks!

 

[dogman dan]

25 kph is very slow, but you could run the motor on a higher voltage battery at some time later on, to get at least 32kph.

But if you are going to be quite happy with 25 kph, that motor will definitely do better on steep hills than a faster winding motor would, if they both had the same volts and amps.

So get the eco, if you have no need to go faster. I ride that slow often, but only on the very longest trips where I need to get the maximum range. I do like to go double that speed, (legal where I live) if I will ride less than 10 miles. Nothing wrong with faster, if you have the battery for it.

 

[drebikes]

If the battery was low, then the power to the wheel is sometimes lower than what you would have with a full tank, it depends how the system is designed. Then, if the battery would have lower capacity that adds another potential torque penalty.

For 500$ maybe the ECO is a better idea. Still, you seem to grasp very well the technical bits, why not g full custom? Or at least half-custom with an ebike kit like the ones @em3ev. I'm suggesting this because 1800$ seems quite high for 250W @25kmph. At least at the same power/speed level as the ECO you could have far cheaper or for the same money quite a bit more power/speed/range. I decided to build my own after riding a pretty nice 2000$ Giant ebike - it was good, but very expensive for what it was.

 

[bluesoleli]

25 kph is very slow, but you could run the motor on a higher voltage battery at some time later on, to get at least 32kph.

But if you are going to be quite happy with 25 kph, that motor will definitely do better on steep hills than a faster winding motor would, if they both had the same volts and amps.

So get the eco, if you have no need to go faster. I ride that slow often, but only on the very longest trips where I need to get the maximum range. I do like to go double that speed, (legal where I live) if I will ride less than 10 miles. Nothing wrong with faster, if you have the battery for it.

From what I know and have seen at the store, the battery for the eZee Sprint ECO and the full model Sprint is the same 36V 10AH battery. I am aware 25KMH is a bit *slow* but unfortunately here in AUS, our e-bikes have to conform to a standard of a maximum speed of 25KMH no matter what e-bike you get.

Here are the rules we have according to our RMS (DMV)... [copy and pasted]:

* The maximum continuous power output of the motor cannot exceed 250 watts measured at the wheel.
Note: A motor that delivers 250 watts of continuous power can produce greater power for very short periods of time, which can be beneficial when pulling away at traffic lights or starting a hill climb.

* The rider must pedal the cycle to activate the motor.
Note: Pedalecs may be equipped with an optional low-speed start-up mode that allows the motor to power the cycle up to 6 km/h. This mode is activated by the user either when riding without pedalling or when the user is pushing the cycle.

* The motor must cut-off once the vehicle reaches 25 km/h, or sooner if the rider stops pedalling.

* The vehicle must be certified by the manufacturer, and labelled as complying with EN 15194. The label must include the manufacturer’s name, the motor’s cut-off speed in km/h and its continuous rated power in watts.

 

[bluesoleli]

If the battery was low, then the power to the wheel is sometimes lower than what you would have with a full tank, it depends how the system is designed. Then, if the battery would have lower capacity that adds another potential torque penalty.

For 500$ maybe the ECO is a better idea. Still, you seem to grasp very well the technical bits, why not g full custom? Or at least half-custom with an ebike kit like the ones @em3ev. I'm suggesting this because 1800$ seems quite high for 250W @25kmph. At least at the same power/speed level as the ECO you could have far cheaper or for the same money quite a bit more power/speed/range. I decided to build my own after riding a pretty nice 2000$ Giant ebike - it was good, but very expensive for what it was.

Oh no, I have no idea about those technical bits I posted up above... I just copy and pasted them from the website that was selling the e-bike. I was suggested to do a custom thing on my Mongoose Tyax I have now... but considering a conversion BionX kit was $2200... I don't think I'll do that considering $1800 already gets me a proper e-bike.

 

[dogman dan]

Yeah, I understand the rules, and the need to ride like you bike conforms in some places.

But you might want to ride faster, perhaps when out of the center of town. But if you want to be fully legal, then the slower bike would be the best pick I think.

25 kph is definitely the speed to ride, for making the most range from a smaller battery. My situation is quite different, 50 kph is actually legal here. So for the short trips, I often ride that fast.

 

[bluesoleli]

Been told a friend of mine is getting rid of a GIANT bike. It's a ladies frame, 17" frame with 26" wheels and a basic Shimano derailer. I think she said it was an UPLAND SE or something like that. Won't see it till this weekend when she cleans up the home. So now I've decided I'll do a conversion to save money. Conversion is $1000 as compared to $1850 for an Ezee Sprint eco.

Kits I've looked at so far have BAFANG motors I think? The kit I liked most was the kit by EZEE. That was expensive at $1500 and $150 labour, but I reckon I could DIY... I think.

 

[voicecoils]

Glad you came and tried out the bikes.

A Giant Upland SE (if it's free and in good condition) with the eZee 36v10Ah kit is actually a pretty decent option compared to the Sprint ECO.

eZee Kit vs Sprint ECO

Positives:
+ faster (30 kph or so as it comes with 250rpm motor winding not 200rpm as the Sprint ECO has)
+ faster charger 4A vs 2A
+ fun and challenge of converting your own bike
+ cheaper by $350

Negatives:
- Giant frame and fork were not built with electrification in mind (no spot for battery in frame, no integrated torque arm and thick dropouts on the fork)
- Easier for someone to steal the battery (they can unbolt the whole rear battery rack and run away)
- Not a stepthru design that you said your mother might like
- It will require time and effort to convert and if you mess something up you might break your bike and/or get hurt.

 

[bluesoleli]

Glad you came and tried out the bikes.

A Giant Upland SE (if it's free and in good condition) with the eZee 36v10Ah kit is actually a pretty decent option compared to the Sprint ECO.

eZee Kit vs Sprint ECO

Positives:
+ faster (30 kph or so as it comes with 250rpm motor winding not 200rpm as the Sprint ECO has)
+ faster charger 4A vs 2A
+ fun and challenge of converting your own bike
+ cheaper by $350

Negatives:
- Giant frame and fork were not built with electrification in mind (no spot for battery in frame, no integrated torque arm and thick dropouts on the fork)
- Easier for someone to steal the battery (they can unbolt the whole rear battery rack and run away)
- Not a stepthru design that you said your mother might like
- It will require time and effort to convert and if you mess something up you might break your bike and/or get hurt.

Thanks for the advice... and also for all the fantastic help from the staff at your shop in Marrickville so far

Food for thought for me for the next week or so before I make a decision. Like you said above, willing to give myself a bit of a challenge with the build (car mechanic by trade so it shouldn't be as hard as changing a head gasket!) if I opt for the $1550 kit at Glow Worm.

 

[d8veh]

I missed this thread before. It's probably a it late, but just to add something to it. The Eco version with the small motor has nowhere near the climbing power of the larger Ezee motor. In the UK, the larger motor is still rated at 250w even though it's considerably more powerful than the smaller "250w" one.

 

[jateureka]

My understanding is:
1. the Australian version eZee Sprint Eco uses the same size 350W motor as the other models, not a smaller 250W motor.
2. The motor windings are different to give it a lower top speed but more torque - Eg. like taking a motor designed for a 700C wheel and mounting it in a 24" wheel.
3. It's the controller that limits the power to 250W.

Nexus gears are great for people who are not seasoned riders as you can pull up to a stop in the wrong gear ans just select the correct gear at stand still to take off again. You can't do that with a deraileaur gear shift. Something to consider if your mum is going to ride the bike also.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/eZee-Spr...ugh-nexus-3-electric-bike-silver-large-1.html

 

[voicecoils]

I missed this thread before. It's probably a it late, but just to add something to it. The Eco version with the small motor has nowhere near the climbing power of the larger Ezee motor....

The Aussie ECO has the eZee V1 front motor. The kits now have the V2 motor (reduced air gap, wider stator, machined gears etc). Both are excellent motors and part of the MAC/BMC/eZee family dimensionally.

eZee has uses various other motors over the years (including bafang style motors still used in the Quando and Dahon Bullet by eZee). The specs vary from country to country depending on the production year and what the distributor in a given country asks for. They've been building electric bikes for since 2001 so quite a lot has changed over the years, different things have been tried, improvements are always being made and some things have stayed constant like the battery mounting system. If you bring us an eZee built 10 years ago, we can still supply you with a replacement battery that slides right in.

 

[bluesoleli]

Well just an update...

I ended up getting the eZee Sprint (FULL EDITION). Had a talk to Maurice from Glow Worm cycles and worked out it would be cheaper to get the $2400 eZee Sprint instead because it comes with a V2 motor, Schwalbe tyres, EAF, hydraulic front brake for 2014 and it seems higher quality too for some reason over the eco... maybe I am having a placebo effect over the colour selection.