ezip motor style bike kit

[KAZUALT]

Well hopefully between your build and mine we can figure out the freewheel deal. I really want to run a split chain setup, but will use an additional 27t if I have to. But I really don't want to have another freewheel mounted on the nuvinci. But atleast I have that option. With the Dual freewheel that the cyclone has is perfect for what I want. But the motor and freewheels are $200 + shipping. If I could figure out a way to put the freewheels on my desired motor the cost is less than $100. I guess its research and web search time.
KEEP ME POSTED
KAZUALT

 

[dumbass]

Well hopefully between your build and mine we can figure out the freewheel deal. I really want to run a split chain setup, but will use an additional 27t if I have to. But I really don't want to have another freewheel mounted on the nuvinci. But atleast I have that option. With the Dual freewheel that the cyclone has is perfect for what I want. But the motor and freewheels are $200 + shipping. If I could figure out a way to put the freewheels on my desired motor the cost is less than $100. I guess its research and web search time.
KEEP ME POSTED
KAZUALT

I am thinking of a few different ways to mount my motors. One way would be to mount them on the left side of the bike behind the axle. This is how the Ezip mounts their motors and it works very well. However, you can not take advantage if the Nuvinci gearing. This would be a fixed gear setup from the motor direct chained to a freewheel gear. The second would be to mount in the same location but on the right side and use 2 freewheels one for the motors and the other for the crank. Actually I wouldn't need one for the crank because I will have a freewheel in the crank gear. The third and my personal favorite would mount the motors in the “V”. Below the motors I was thinking of building a simple mounting for 2 freewheel gear (I am thinking of each motor being able to run without the other requiring 2 freewheels) on end of the shaft I would sprocket back to the Nuvinci hub. In this setup the Nuvinci doesn't really need any freewheels because I have them on both the motor intermediary drive and the separate crank drive. This setup I am very confident I can build and get the required parts very easily. The question for me is “space”. I don't want the motors to excessively protrude out of the the frame of the “V”. I am thinking of using a Cyclone crank shaft because it is extended on the left side.

Being that I have the Cyclone system on 2 bikes I know the double gear you are talking about. However, I don't understand how that will solve your motor freewheel mounting problem. You would still need to adapted it to your motor shaft. Remember one of the problems with small shafts is the overhung weight of the freewheel. The small shaft motors are intended to have the load close in. But when you mount a freewheel to it you are shifting the chain load location away from the bearings which adds to the wear load. I have been thinking about finding/making and adapter but like you I can not find it on the shelf. Then I thought about the overhung load problem and have all but abandoned it.

By the way where are you located? I'm in the Chicago area.

 

[KAZUALT]

I live in Pittsburgh.
What I was talking about was using the 27T freewheel and a 18T Freewheel. Both mounted on the right side of the hub. Lookin at the 27T webpage it is made to stack with the small sprocket. I was thinkin about runnin the motor to the 27t and pedal using the 18t. But I don't think I can stop pedalin when the motor is runnin.
Yeh right now I am trying to figure out how to change the 10mm shaft of the 1018 to a 20mm that will accept the cyclone freewheels. Using 1cw and 1ccw freewheel with a split chain setup is what I am shootin for. Well back to searchin.
KAZUALT

 

[dumbass]

I live in Pittsburgh.
What I was talking about was using the 27T freewheel and a 18T Freewheel. Both mounted on the right side of the hub. Lookin at the 27T webpage it is made to stack with the small sprocket. I was thinkin about runnin the motor to the 27t and pedal using the 18t. But I don't think I can stop pedalin when the motor is runnin.
Yeh right now I am trying to figure out how to change the 10mm shaft of the 1018 to a 20mm that will accept the cyclone freewheels. Using 1cw and 1ccw freewheel with a split chain setup is what I am shootin for. Well back to searchin.
KAZUALT

Damn, if you don't sound like your thinking the same as I did a while back. I all but gave up on the shaft on the 1018 (that is the Curie motor correct?). That's why I went with the intermediate drive idea. If you can build it and fit it in it solves the freewheel problems.

You can solve your crank running with the double freewheel your talking about but installing another freewheel on your crank sprocket. I am likely going to do the same thing and considering all we are going to spend anyway it's not that much more expensive.

Do you have an internet site with the double freewheel your talking about? Are they 2 sprocket on 1 freewheel? I have seen those but I don't know if you can actually put 2 chains on them at the same time. I think they are actually intended to be a 2 speed shifter only.

 

[KAZUALT]

Yep The site is the one I posted for the 27T Freewheel. Other than that Cyclone sells Cw & CCW freewheels. But they are 16T. If you go to the 27T site, look down the page and it shows 2 freewheels, 14t & 27T, together.
I think though I am going to have to go the cyclone route. With having a recumbent trike with the NuVinci hub, I really need to do a split chain setup. Well just have to buy it in pieces. The 650 watt motor and 2 freewheels are $210 according to Paco. I am going to add my own controller, throttle and batteries. Kinda sucks though because if I could find a motor with a 20mm shaft I would be set. It would cost me more to get something milled than the cyclone motor. Oh Well atleast between me and you we can get the nuvince with a cyclone figured out. I am sending for the motor Monday, after 4 weeks of waiting it should be here.
Keep me informed.
KAZUALT
PS. Hey checkout this site I just found. They will customize a motor to any specs and for not a ^#^$ load of money. http://www.anaheimautomation.com/

 

[dumbass]

Yep The site is the one I posted for the 27T Freewheel. Other than that Cyclone sells Cw & CCW freewheels. But they are 16T. If you go to the 27T site, look down the page and it shows 2 freewheels, 14t & 27T, together.
I think though I am going to have to go the cyclone route. With having a recumbent trike with the NuVinci hub, I really need to do a split chain setup. Well just have to buy it in pieces. The 650 watt motor and 2 freewheels are $210 according to Paco. I am going to add my own controller, throttle and batteries. Kinda sucks though because if I could find a motor with a 20mm shaft I would be set. It would cost me more to get something milled than the cyclone motor. Oh Well atleast between me and you we can get the nuvince with a cyclone figured out. I am sending for the motor Monday, after 4 weeks of waiting it should be here.
Keep me informed.
KAZUALT
PS. Hey checkout this site I just found. They will customize a motor to any specs and for not a ^#^$ load of money. http://www.anaheimautomation.com/

I got an email that my new motor and controller shipped and should be here on Thursday. Not that I am going to rush into doing anything with it right away. I likely won't do much with it until after the holidays. But at least I can sit and look at it a dream of what I'm going to do......LOL Damn, I hate winter.

 

[KAZUALT]

Yeh I hear ya. I live right next to the river an the wind blowing up the valley in the winter is a *%^! So I figure I will take my time and do it right the first time. Looks like after much thought I am going to order the 650watt cyclone. Since it has an external controller, I am going to try to find one in my price range. Same with the throttle. Here is a link to my trike http://www.utahtrikes.com/TRIKE-UTCPATHPLUS.html . I am going to put the motor behind my seat. Running a split chain will make things really easy to setup. Gonna order the motor this weekend. Mount it then get the controller. By Maech I should be up and runnin.
KAZUALT

 

[KAZUALT]

Dumbass,
Boy I love the internet. After much search I think I found a solution to the 10mm shaft problem on the 1018 motors. Checkout this web site. http://www.vxb.com/page/bearings/PROD/10mm/Kit7645 . They call it a one way or a clutch bearing. It has an OD of 14mm. At the very least this will allow me to install a bigger sprocket on the motor to get mt gear ratio right where I need it. But will have to use the 27t/14t double freewheel. Really wanna do split chain. But the more I tinker with the 27t/14t idea, the more I like it. I am going to hold off till after X Mas to buy anything. First I am going to try to get the noticable bugs out of the split chain 1018 motor drive. If not atleast I have a second choice.
KAZUALT

 

[dumbass]

Dumbass,
Boy I love the internet. After much search I think I found a solution to the 10mm shaft problem on the 1018 motors. Checkout this web site. http://www.vxb.com/page/bearings/PROD/10mm/Kit7645 . They call it a one way or a clutch bearing. It has an OD of 14mm. At the very least this will allow me to install a bigger sprocket on the motor to get mt gear ratio right where I need it. But will have to use the 27t/14t double freewheel. Really wanna do split chain. But the more I tinker with the 27t/14t idea, the more I like it. I am going to hold off till after X Mas to buy anything. First I am going to try to get the noticable bugs out of the split chain 1018 motor drive. If not atleast I have a second choice.
KAZUALT

Your right without the internet we'd all be screwed. When you say 1018 motor are you talking about the 1018 Currie motor or ??? Are you planning on using these bearing directly on the motor shaft to act a s a freewheel? I have thought os something simular but thought the bearing was a little long for what I wanted to do. Have you ever found out if you can actually mount 2 chains (side by side) on a double sprocket freewheel? I'm still thinking it is intended for 1 chain on ether of the sprockets but not 1 chain on each at the same time.

 

[KAZUALT]

Here is the link it is 3/4 of the way down the page MY1018z 36v geared motor. I think it is a currie motor. Read alot of post of people using them. But no one has done it split chain. I got a question out of the blue. How do you install a sprocket on the left hand side of a hub. Been thinkin that the easiest way to setup would be to add a sprocket on the left hand side. Very new to all of this so any info would help.
KAZUALT

 

[dumbass]

Here is the link it is 3/4 of the way down the page MY1018z 36v geared motor. I think it is a currie motor. Read alot of post of people using them. But no one has done it split chain. I got a question out of the blue. How do you install a sprocket on the left hand side of a hub. Been thinkin that the easiest way to setup would be to add a sprocket on the left hand side. Very new to all of this so any info would help.
KAZUALT

OPPs, you forgot the link. Actually you are trying to do exactly what I am trying to do but you can it a "split chain" and I can it an "intermediate drive". I was talking to a guy at Nuvinci a while back and told him what I intended to do. I was questioning the ability of the Nuvinci to hold up under the power. He misunderstood me and thought I wanted to put a sprocket on the left side. As we agreed it shouldn't be a problem because the left side has an adaptor on it for a brake disc. Therefore, there as long as you do it without a freewheel all you have to do is match up to this adaptor. Of course you loose the ability to have a brake disc. But I don't think you want to do this anyway because driving from the left is a direct drive. It does not drive through the gear range of the Nuvinci.

I am guessing you are using the same motor I am. The only difference is you are using the 36v version and I am using 2 of the 24v versions. Considering you are using a split chain why don't you put the freewheel at the intersection of the chains? That's what I am planning to do. In this manner you don't need to put a freewheel on that little motor shaft.

 

[KAZUALT]

Sorry heres the motor link http://tncscooters.com/partsdb.php?type=ES . THe motor is about 3/4 of the way down MY1018Z. From what I have seen it is a currie motor with a diferent lable. I am getting the 36V 450watt version. Hey this site http://www.staton-inc.com/Results1.asp?Category=50&offset=0 has thing for NuVinci hubs the company doesn't even advertise. They have a hub specifically built for what we want to do, but its WAY TO $$$$$. But they also have adapters to put 2 freewheels on the right side. They sell an ENO 17t/19t freewheel. Just check it out, theres alot more options now that I found this site. Tell me what you think. It definately seem doable now. Heres what I am going for.
Mount the motor under my seat or rear rack, with a 9t sprocket on the shaft. Have one chain going to back wheel Nuvinci hub 27t freewheel. Keep the original chain in the original configuration back to th hubs 18t freewheel. I know it is not a split chain, but it will allow me to pedal only when I want and thats the main thing. Only thing I am worried about is that my RPM are still going to be quite high. But since these motors are more effiecnt in the mid-top range. I just will have to watch my rpms so I dont fling my chains across the road.The currie seups I see, have the same 9t sprocket and only use an 18t freewheel. So I think I will be good to go. Since I have a trike that is fairly heavy, I will need all the torque I can get. Well waht do ya think? Will it work?

 

[dumbass]

Sorry heres the motor link http://tncscooters.com/partsdb.php?type=ES . THe motor is about 3/4 of the way down MY1018Z. From what I have seen it is a currie motor with a diferent lable. I am getting the 36V 450watt version. Hey this site http://www.staton-inc.com/Results1.asp?Category=50&offset=0 has thing for NuVinci hubs the company doesn't even advertise. They have a hub specifically built for what we want to do, but its WAY TO $$$$$. But they also have adapters to put 2 freewheels on the right side. They sell an ENO 17t/19t freewheel. Just check it out, theres alot more options now that I found this site. Tell me what you think. It definately seem doable now. Heres what I am going for.
Mount the motor under my seat or rear rack, with a 9t sprocket on the shaft. Have one chain going to back wheel Nuvinci hub 27t freewheel. Keep the original chain in the original configuration back to th hubs 18t freewheel. I know it is not a split chain, but it will allow me to pedal only when I want and thats the main thing. Only thing I am worried about is that my RPM are still going to be quite high. But since these motors are more effiecnt in the mid-top range. I just will have to watch my rpms so I dont fling my chains across the road.The currie seups I see, have the same 9t sprocket and only use an 18t freewheel. So I think I will be good to go. Since I have a trike that is fairly heavy, I will need all the torque I can get. Well waht do ya think? Will it work?

Yeah, I know both those places. The motor your looking at is the same design as mine except for the voltage but if you calculate the V*A they both = 576. So I'm not sure that one is stronger then the other and they are also the same RPM. Bottom line mine came from Currie (the first one on the bike and a second as a free replacement). If I did my calculation right your motor RPMs should be about 418 (I'm not really sure about this because mine is said to be 550 RPMs). With the 9t on the motor and a 27t on the Nuvinci and at a no load condition that whould give you a speed range of 7.04 mph to 21.34 mph (assuming my 26" tire size). I would assume a 10 to 20% RPM load loss though. I don't know your crank sprocket size but assuming it's a 44t like mine and you use an 18t on the Nuvinci your peddle speed range at an 80 cadance would be 9.88 MPH to 29.95 MPH. If my numbers are correct your not matching up your peddling speed with the motors speed. And remember the motor will still have load speed losses.

I wouldn't worry about the motor chain speed it's not really that fast. But FYI the Currie uses a 20t sprocket on the hub not an 18t. But sum guys on here have changed out to a 16t for more speed.

I see on the Staton site the double freewheel you were talking about. This system may work for you bike but it would never fit in a standard hard tail bike like mine.

 

[KAZUALT]

Dumbass,
OK after some measuring, emails and alot of thinking, heres where I am at. The 27t/18t combo freewheel will not work. They are 1 freewheel not 2. So they both spin at the same time. So that leaves me with the tried and true option.
Left Side Drive.
My hub has the disc brake adapter on it. So not all I have to figure out is how to attach a freewheel to the db adapter. I saw a post a bit ago about an adapter. The response said that recumpence makes them. But from reading his posts lately, He seems VERY BUSY. I was hoping there was another source for them. I think I am going to put up a post agian. Maybe if asked alittle differently I can get some info. Once I figure out the LHD freewheel, the rest is easy. Also I will be able to experiment with different sized freewheels. I will be able to pick the freewheel according to the ride.
I see what you mean about the 24v motor verses the 36v motor. After you explained it so well, I will probably go for the 24v. My crank is 170mm, sprocket is 46t, NuVinci freewheel is 18t.
Well I am going to do some internet searchin. If ya got a solution for me YELL.
Thanks
KAZUALT

 

[dumbass]

Dumbass,
OK after some measuring, emails and alot of thinking, heres where I am at. The 27t/18t combo freewheel will not work. They are 1 freewheel not 2. So they both spin at the same time. So that leaves me with the tried and true option.
Left Side Drive.
My hub has the disc brake adapter on it. So not all I have to figure out is how to attach a freewheel to the db adapter. I saw a post a bit ago about an adapter. The response said that recumpence makes them. But from reading his posts lately, He seems VERY BUSY. I was hoping there was another source for them. I think I am going to put up a post agian. Maybe if asked alittle differently I can get some info. Once I figure out the LHD freewheel, the rest is easy. Also I will be able to experiment with different sized freewheels. I will be able to pick the freewheel according to the ride.
I see what you mean about the 24v motor verses the 36v motor. After you explained it so well, I will probably go for the 24v. My crank is 170mm, sprocket is 46t, NuVinci freewheel is 18t.
Well I am going to do some internet searchin. If ya got a solution for me YELL.
Thanks
KAZUALT

Kaz...I think you are giving up on the RH drive advantages to quickly. That is of course if you see a value in having the motor connected to the ratio of the Nuvinci. I say this because some people don't really care. All they want is to hit the throttle and as long as the bike moves their happy. But I don't think your one of these people.

Please let me recap your problem of driving from the RH side. The only issue I see is the need for a motor freewheel. But this freewheel doesn't need to actually be on the motor. You could solve the problem the same way that I am planning to do it (with an intermediary shaft). Here's my idea; 1) mount the motor 2) mount a freewheel on a shaft suspended between 2 bearings allowing one end of the shaft to extend beyond one bearing 3) on the extended end mount a sprocket 4) now mount this bearing assembly to the bike as close to the motor as possible 5) run a short chain from the motor to the freewheel 6) you need to be able to mount 2 sprockets on the Nuvinci. At least one should be a freewheel. The other can be just a common sprocket. This common sprocket would be for the motor 7) Run a chain from the sprocket on the on the end of the intermediary shaft to the dead sprocket on the Nuvinci 8) Connect your crank chain to the freewheel on the Nuvinci........DONE

The hard part is mounting a dead sprocket with a freewheel on the Nuvinci. Once we do that we are home free. I may not have explained my thoughts very well so I will try to create a crude drawing to post. As they say a pic is worth a 1000 words.

 

[KAZUALT]

Ok you convinced me. I will first exhaust every possiblity. I am trying to envision the setup you describe. It will take me a bit to absorb it. There are two options that I are possible.
1) Figure out a way to hook up two freewheels to the NuVinci. I was wrong, The 27t/18t run independently. So if I could workout the space need, I would be alright.
2) Put 2 freewheels on the 10mm shaft of the 1018z motor. Problem here is the smallest freewheel I have found is 15mm. I did look into clutch bearings. But can't figure out how to make them work.
Oh Well I got all winter.
KAZUALT

 

[dumbass]

Ok you convinced me. I will first exhaust every possiblity. I am trying to envision the setup you describe. It will take me a bit to absorb it. There are two options that I are possible.
1) Figure out a way to hook up two freewheels to the NuVinci. I was wrong, The 27t/18t run independently. So if I could workout the space need, I would be alright.
2) Put 2 freewheels on the 10mm shaft of the 1018z motor. Problem here is the smallest freewheel I have found is 15mm. I did look into clutch bearings. But can't figure out how to make them work.
Oh Well I got all winter.
KAZUALT

Well the dual freewheel is great news (for both of us). Maybe you've already posted the site for the freewheel but could you please give it to me again. I think this would help me too. Personally I wouldn't try putting a freewheel on the motor shaft. I am looking at the shaft and to me it's just to small. If you can run direct to the Nuvinci freewheel why do you need a freewheel on the motro anyway? I am trying to use freewheels for the motor because I am using 2 motors and I want them to remain independent of each other. The crude drawing pic is what I am thinking of doing. Like I said it's crude so I hope you can understand it. Should I decide to combine my motors I will dump the idea of adding motor freewheels. In any case I would be using the intermediate shaft to mount the extra freewheels. What I don't like is the extra chains. the more freewheels and chains we have the more noise we have too. Plus it reduces the effiecency.

So now that you know the double freewheel is independent doesn't this solve your problem....barring the space issue of course?

 

[KAZUALT]

Yep barring the space issue my problem is solved. It won't be a split chain, but I won't have to peddle if I don't want to. I think I might get the 27T that attaches to another freewheel. The site is http://www.staton-inc.com/Results1.asp?Category=50&offset=0 . Gotta figure out how to mount them and having it in my hand will help alot. The motor freewheel is out of the question. It is just gonna cause more problems then it's worth. I think I am going to email staton and ask them the best way to mount them.
Yeh your motor chain looks long as heck. You will probalbly have to put some kinda tensioner on it. Mine will be way back. The chain should be 2-3 feet max length.

 

[dumbass]

Yep barring the space issue my problem is solved. It won't be a split chain, but I won't have to peddle if I don't want to. I think I might get the 27T that attaches to another freewheel. The site is http://www.staton-inc.com/Results1.asp?Category=50&offset=0 . Gotta figure out how to mount them and having it in my hand will help alot. The motor freewheel is out of the question. It is just gonna cause more problems then it's worth. I think I am going to email staton and ask them the best way to mount them.
Yeh your motor chain looks long as heck. You will probalbly have to put some kinda tensioner on it. Mine will be way back. The chain should be 2-3 feet max length.

I think I have bad news for you if you are expecting the 27t your looking at to act as an independent freewheel. The way it looks to me that is just a sprocket the is designed to attach to the side of a freewheel. Therefore, it is using the same freewheel as the smaller sprocket that is perminantly attached to the freewheel. So once you install this setup the 2 sprocket are locked to the same freewheel. This will not work for you because when you peddle witout the motor the motor will be driven by your peddle action. I agree you need to contact the supplier and be 100% sure the 2 sprocket are on 2 different freewheels.

My current crank chain is 18" long (a normal length for a hard tail) and the new chain for the motor will be only 19" long. These are center to center dimentions. However, I would of course use an independent idler for each.

 

[dumbass]

Stop the presses I have great news....... I just spoke to Nuvinci support and he told me that a guy in their office is running a true double freewheel on the drive (righ hand) side of the Nuvinci. The person with the info is out of the office this week but will be back next week. The guy I spoke to will talk to him and get all the info where to get the freewheels and maybe some pics. and email it all to me.

 

[davespicer]

Stop the presses I have great news.......

...and that's one of the things I love about this place New information - either equipment, projects, or experience/data - shows up all the time. It's cool to be even a very small part of a community like this...

 

[KAZUALT]

Dumbass,
When you talk to the guy try to find out the dimensions. I need to know the thickness of both freewheel. Thanks for all the help
KAZUALT

 

[TylerDurden]

Well, they do have the splined freewheel adaptors already. Since the NuVinci has a smaller splined hub, they could make hardened rings with outside threads. (Shimano splined freehubs are larger)

 

[KAZUALT]

I got a reply from staton that the 27t is an adapter an is not an independent freewheel. I was asking Dumbass to find out the thickness of the two freewheels. Does anyone know where to get the thinnest freewheels from? Problem with the NuVinci Hub is it doesn't have alot of extra room on the axel. So thin is IN.
KAZUALT

 

[dumbass]

Dumbass,
When you talk to the guy try to find out the dimensions. I need to know the thickness of both freewheel. Thanks for all the help
KAZUALT

OK, start the presses again. Bad news Nuvinci refered me back to Staton. I called Staton and spoke to David and he confirmed you can only fit 1 freewheel on the Nuvinci. However, as you alredy know you can also add a fixed gear and spacer. So what I decided to do is use the freewheel for the motors and the fixed gear for the crank. Of course if you do not already have a freewheel on your crank this will need to be added. The only bad thing is anytine the wheel is turning the crank chain will be also but with the freewhell in the crank the peddles won't turn. O'well it's the bet we can do.