Fardriver with a regen throttle?

[rg12]

Hey guys!
Got me a Fardriver controller for my surron and it works great!

Now I want to connect a regen throttle and seen only one video on the internet talking about it and they use a button on the low brake.
I want a throttle control for the regen and not an on/off switch.
Anyone has any experience with a fardriver and the high/low brake wires?

 

[amberwolf]

Is your surron a middrive or a hubmotor?

If it's a middrive, does it have any clutch or freewheel between the wheel and the motor? If so, you can't use regen without eliminating that.

If it's a direct drive hubmotor, you can use regen as long as your axle is securely attached to prevent any rotation in either direction. (if it can move at all, it will, and rock back and forth until it breaks something or spins out and rips out your wires).


Does your controller have options in the setup program for variable regen? If not, you'll need a different controller that can do that.

If it does, then you'll need to see what modes it supports, and decide how you want to control it, and set it up that way in the setup program.

Do you want a separate variable control for the regen, or do you want your regular throttle to control it, when triggered by a button or brake lever switch?

If the controller doesn't support the control type you want to use, you may have to use a switch and relay setup like I did in my Variable Regen Brake Lever thread, but adapted for your particular controller and setup.

 

[rg12]

I kept on researching last night and turns out that it has only the button option and not a throttle option so I guess I just wouldn't use it.
Thanks for the help

 

[de-bodgery (ElectricGod)]

Motor type doesn't matter. FD uses either the STM32F103 or a clone CPU from GigaDevices. In either case, they lack the CPU power and I/O for a second throttle.

 

[dominik h]

My Fardriver ND72680 does have full variable regen phase current, this is set with the throttle, depending on how fast and wide you turn the throttle back to zero, max value is set with the brake contact. You can also apply brake during regen and use the highest regen setting and after loosen the brake it falls back to the regen value which was set before with the throttle.
On mine I set stop back current to 35A and max back current to 70A . (180kg heavy scooter plus me)
Phase current Ratio for regen is set to 10-30% of the max current, depending on the rpm.
My Fardriver limits the regen current to slightly over 35A . Even if a activate brake regen at 110km/h it shows only 35A regen current to the battery.

 

[de-bodgery (ElectricGod)]

My Fardriver ND72680 does 4 different regen phase currents, three are set with the throttle, depending on how fast you turn the throttle back to zero, the fourth is set with the brake contact. The four values are divided into four quarters of the regen phase current set in the ratio. It is not complete variable but on road it is sufficient. You can also apply brake during regen and use the highest regen setting and after loosen the brake it falls back to the regen value which was set before with the throttle.
On mine I set stop back current to 35A and max back current to 70A . (180kg heavy scooter plus me)
Phase current Ratio for regen is set to 10-30% of the max current, depending on the rpm.
My Fardriver limits the regen current to slightly over 35A . Even if a activate brake regen at 110km/h it shows only 35A regen current to the battery.

This is interesting. I didn't know FD could do this. I guess it's sort of "variable regen"? It's not the real deal like ASI, VESC or Nukular can do via a second throttle or a forward/0/back wheel throttle.

On FD controllers, I jsut got a ND96680 sent to me. It's bricked during a firmware update. Why they bury the programming port under potting is a mystery! I wanted to do tear down videos of it anyway so now it's 100% depotted. This is something that happens to FD controllers sometimes that they brick during firmware updates. I've looked at quite a few FD controllers now and the ND96680 is my favorite design from FD.

 

[dominik h]

It is not as good as a second throttle, but it is better than only one value with a switch.

Please post a few pictures from your boards, I would reely like to see how the manage to get 30kW out of this small package

 

[de-bodgery (ElectricGod)]

My Fardriver ND72680 does 4 different regen phase currents, three are set with the throttle, depending on how fast you turn the throttle back to zero, the fourth is set with the brake contact. The four values are divided into four quarters of the regen phase current set in the ratio. It is not complete variable but on road it is sufficient. You can also apply brake during regen and use the highest regen setting and after loosen the brake it falls back to the regen value which was set before with the throttle.
On mine I set stop back current to 35A and max back current to 70A . (180kg heavy scooter plus me)
Phase current Ratio for regen is set to 10-30% of the max current, depending on the rpm.
My Fardriver limits the regen current to slightly over 35A . Even if a activate brake regen at 110km/h it shows only 35A regen current to the battery.

It is not as good as a second throttle, but it is better than only one value with a switch.

Please post a few pictures from your boards, I would reely like to see how the manage to get 30kW out of this small package

New to ES, not sure how this works, but there's probably a section for controllers that would be a better fit for posting pics of a tear down.

 

[dominik h]

Yes it would better fit in the controller thread

Fardriver thread

 

[ttmk]

Hi there,
Could anyone please show which parameters to set to enable this semi-variable regen?

 

[dominik h]

I think the setting called is made under Functions
follow 3-EABS when Release

The downside is, that sometimes the controller needs a moment to accelerate after a stop, and I have not found where to change this.
And probably it is fully variable, today I got two different phase curent values than I had ever seen during my tests.
During my longer downhill test I had 30A / 60A / 90A / 120A today I had seen 17A and 45A regen phase current.

I have attached the complete setting of my controller, maybe there are different firmwares out there with different parameter sets.
At the moment I´m using only high speed settings and I am testing what power I can put through the motor and where to set my max rpm, so the settings in ratios of speed are definitly not perfect.

 

[ttmk]

think the setting called is made under Functions
follow 3-EABS when Release

So, setting 3-EABSWhenRelease is the point? And levels of regeneration are defined on the page "Energy Regenerate"?

I cannot get the difference between stopbackcurr and maxbackcurr. So far I'm only using 2-EABSWhenBrake and it seems the current is almost the same. My settings are:
125rpm - 0%
250rpm - 20%
375rpm - 50%
500rpm and above - 70%

Stopbackcurr=50A, Maxbackcurr=50A

And even these settings, result in knocks inside motor after each regen. If I put the wheel in the air, spin it and press the brake, regen stops it and starts spinning backwards((

 

[dominik h]

Level is set on Energie regenerate.
You set there % of phase current.
And you should set max back current 50% higher than stop back, it is written in the fardriver "manual" on the siaecosys download site.
I also never saw higher values than in stop back defined.

I think your ratio settings for regen for higher rpm are to high, or have you set a very low phase current.
I have set low rpm around 35% and at higher rpm falling down to 5%.

I have set 30% from my max 600A so I get a maximum 180A phase current for regen.

Perhaps your engine mount is not good and lets the motor move the axle. I solved this with a clamped version.

 

[A-DamW]

Please post a few pictures from your boards, I would reely like to see how the manage to get 30kW out of this small package

De-bogery also has a great YT channel with lotsa teardowns:
https://www.youtube.com/@de-bodgery/videos

New to ES, not sure how this works, but there's probably a section for controllers that would be a better fit for posting pics of a tear down.

Welcome to the sphere'!

 

[dominik h]

De-bogery also has a great YT channel ...

Thanks for the information.
After changing all the Mosfets from my SVMC72260 I like to see also the other Controller manufacturers designs.

 

[amberwolf]

And even these settings, result in knocks inside motor after each regen.

With FOC controllers, noises can happen during changes in current because of incorrect motor parameters setup in the controller, such as inductance, resistance, kV/kT, number of poles.

For regen-specific noises it can also be loose axle hardware--if the axle is able to move *at all* then regen vs acceleration will rock it back and forth until something gives.

If I put the wheel in the air, spin it and press the brake, regen stops it and starts spinning backwards((

That may mean incorrect motor parameters, or more likely it means the controller is able to use negative current to brake the wheel, which with no load on the wheel will spin it in reverse. One would expect the controller to be smart enough to realize the wheel is doing that, and stop applying negative current since braking is intended to come to stop, but not all programmers are very good at practical thinking about real-world usage of their stuff.

 

[janco93]

Hi All, maybie it is too late to answer your questions but i have learned by trying that maxbackcurrent (my is 50) is phase current pulling from motor when brake activated, and stopbackcurrent (my is 30) is max amps that it will push into battery. For example if you are going extra fast then it will push to battery 30A and way less phase amps, then when your speed is lower it will try to incerase your phase current to maintain 30A to battery after it reach maxbackcurrent it will drop battery amps and maintain 50A for phase. So first parameter you set according to your battery what it can take and second is max braking force.. Hope it make sence my english isnt very good. About this percentages i have it all on 100% it is changing braking power in different speeds, it have no use for me after discovering this mensioned earlier. And i dont really understand that thing about variable regen if someone can explain i will be glad And about spinnig backward, this controlles is applying stopping power to the dead stop i think that is its great and cause no issue when normal riding only when wheel is up in the air, in comparison sabvoton will stop regen way earlies which is not good in my opinion.

 

[dominik h]

The phase amp values are set in
-Energy Regenrate
there you set the % of the max phase current value you have set under -Parameters

The stop back current is the value to which the controller regulates the maximum regen current into the battery.
I think the Max Back Current value is not realy used and only for internal calculations or limits.

On my controller ND72680 i have set max phase current to 630A , and stop back Current to 45A and max back current to 80A
in the energy regenerate setup I have set a max value from 30%. from 166-416rpm and from there on dropping to 5% at 1333rpm
With this I get a maximum 180pA and a maximum of 45bA.
But you are right, if you set 100% in the energy regenrate menu, the controller regulates to the stop current, if not it would try to regulate to the max phase amp value, which would equal to the same brakink power , like the acceleration power.
But with the rpm tables you can reach a evenly braking force over the whole rpm range.

The variable regen reacts on how wide and how fast you close the throotle. It is fully variable, as I see values from -30W to -3800W on the power meter and on the app of the BMS.
It is turned on under -Functions Follow:3-EABSwhenRelease

 

[ttmk]

The phase amp values are set in
-Energy Regenrate
there you set the % of the max phase current value you have set under -Parameters

The stop back current is the value to which the controller regulates the maximum regen current into the battery.
I think the Max Back Current value is not realy used and only for internal calculations or limits.

On my controller ND72680 i have set max phase current to 630A , and stop back Current to 45A and max back current to 80A
in the energy regenerate setup I have set a max value from 30%. from 166-416rpm and from there on dropping to 5% at 1333rpm
With this I get a maximum 180pA and a maximum of 45bA.
But you are right, if you set 100% in the energy regenrate menu, the controller regulates to the stop current, if not it would try to regulate to the max phase amp value, which would equal to the same brakink power , like the acceleration power.
But with the rpm tables you can reach a evenly braking force over the whole rpm range.

The variable regen reacts on how wide and how fast you close the throotle. It is fully variable, as I see values from -30W to -3800W on the power meter and on the app of the BMS.
It is turned on under -Functions Follow:3-EABSwhenRelease

But how did you attach variable regen throttle? I dont see any 3pin connector for that on fardriver ND72680. (while on my Sabvoton 72150 there is clearly 3-pin "brake throttle" connector)

 

[dominik h]

It is no seperate throttle.
The Fardriver looks how fast (and probably how wide) you close the throttle and with this it sets a regen current.
But not all Fardrivers offer this function. My 721800 does not have it, or I´m to dump to set it right.

 

[ttmk]

It is no seperate throttle.
The Fardriver looks how fast (and probably how wide) you close the throttle and with this it sets a regen current.
But not all Fardrivers offer this function. My 721800 does not have it, or I´m to dump to set it right.

Ah I see now so this is not a decent option for me. I want a separate control via brake lever (special lever with a hall sensor).