Fastest HUB motor

[Bazaki]

Hi,

What would be the fastest HUB motor at the market today ?
I have read several projects and a lot of guys here on the forum made some great fast bikes, I like the doctor bass and Hyena Bike !

But since the wheel has been invented I won't like to do it again, so what would the experienced guys answer ?

If you had to buy today the fastest hub and controller to get some serious speed, what would you buy ?

 

[Lock]

Can't recommend myself,`cept to say you WILL be beefing up any pedal bike to handle non-pedal-like speeds? There's a reason motorcycles aren't built like pedal bikes? Anywhooo have fun. Watched yer vid on electric wake winching... Hilarious!!! Looks like much fun!

Anybuddy reading this - click on Bazaki`s sig link for his YouTube vid! 8)
(Sorry ta be off topic)
Lock

 

[northernmike]

What a great, simple setup for waterskiing. Thanks for sharing.

 

[Bazaki]

Thanks, here is part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FatTAiBH8R0&feature=related


But I would like to have a stealthy moutainbike, I would like to pedal also.
It is important to have setup that can reach about 70km/h and if possible it would be great to reach that speed in 5 sec. (like Doctorbass his e-bike )

 

[Ariane]

Deleted

 

[morph999]

Technically it's probably mark cycle's new hub motor but that hub is for motorcycles and I think it uses like 5000w. The 2nd fastest is the 5302 hub motor from crystalyte. Rounding out 3rd is either the 5303 crystalyte or the newest model from BMC ( or is it??) but no one knows if the BMC motor really is that fast because there has been some complaints about them not living up to their claims.

 

[nicobie]

Hi morph,

Have any links to your claims?

I have a V2 speed that will kick your 36v/20Ah shit combo up side it's head.

 

[Ariane]

Bazaki,

Nice vids

X5302 fastest, low torque forget the 5 sec.
X5306 high torque slowest but 140 Volt (it will be really fast)

Black Arrow

 

[morph999]

Hi morph,

Have any links to your claims?

I have a V2 speed that will kick your 36v/20Ah shit combo up side it's head.

hahaha. How fast does the BMC go at 36v ? Mine goes 28 mph at 36v. Beat that. I bet it won't. You have to use the same voltage (no cheating).

And if I lose weight and add some Kenda Kross, I bet it will go 30 mph on just 36v.

I've read about the BMC motors and from what I've read, you need tons of amps and voltage to get it going. I almost bought a BMC motor but then I read about their failure rates and I went with a crystalyte and I'm glad I did. Been riding my crystalyte for a year with no problems at all.

 

[John in CR]

The fastest hub motors are those built for electric scooters and motorcycles. Markcycle's big motor is in that mix, but it has a pretty low Kv (rpm/volt) so higher voltage is a requirement for the higher speeds. These and others not meant for bikes will require modification to both the frame and the motor to use them on bikes. With Mark's you may be able to get a stock X5 rightside cover with freewheel threads to fit the motor. Check with Mark on that, because I don't know.

To me the relatively easy emoto motor modifications are well worth it, and that's what I do, and is why my bikes exceed 50mph (I checked the computer speedo and 52.5mph max speed this morning running errands). Your 5 sec goal added to high speed puts you in a whole other league that mine don't meet (now anyway), but mine are budget builds.

You neglected to mention budget, which is of critical importance. High speed isn't terribly difficult, but adding in strong acceleration means high torque too, plus your batteries and controller have to be up to the task as well. It ain't cheap, so if you're on a budget, then you're going to have to track down a hub motor / controller combo with multi KW ratings designed to push 300lb scooters 45mph+ and adapt it to use on a bike. Then you're going to have to get high power batteries. If you need range too, that means you need plenty of capacity too, which will end up the most costly part of your build.

 

[Doctorbass]

Bazaki,

Nice vids

X5302 fastest, low torque forget the 5 sec.
X5306 high torque slowest but 140 Volt (it will be really fast)

Black Arrow

BlackArrow, The 5302 i used for the speed record is still powerfull enough with 15000Watts burst to reach 0-90kmh in less the 7 sec

See the past thread about my killabicycle project!
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=10301&p=172004&hilit=killabicycle+gps#p172004

The difference between the 5302 and the 05 or 06 is that it need more current for the same torque... and mine using the 18 fets cooper bar heatsink reached 170A without blowing

As for the Steveo's project using the 5306.. it will probably beat the torque of my actual setup eventhough i've towed a 19200pounds schoolbus.. he could probably tow one and half..

But i still have the proof of that for my side:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxyVxCP4LI0

NOT USING ANY GEARS, sprokets. just direct hub motor.. the 5305!...


As for the Crystalyte X503 . (the new version is the 5303) .. we should always remember that on this forum and probably over the planet.. someone named LOWELL.. one of the pioneer of the crazy speed of the Endless sphere forum here in 2007 reached 85kmh using it.. one of the fastest.. Fechter probably remember him and xyter's ... a classic!..
Long time no see...

[youtube]HwSKoOtImYs[/youtube]

Doc

 

[DerekG]

Best chance for crazy acceleration is going to be dual drive, A123 or Li-Poly batteries, and two controllers capable of 100amps each at 80+ volts

Even then think about what you want and whether it would make more sense to just go with a motorcycle. Speed is easy with a lot of voltage, acceleration is easy with a lot of amps but once you want both (and even then Methods with dual 100a had crazy traction-control issues) it gets expensive/heavy/bulky.

Also, don't forget bikes aren't built for these crazy speeds no matter how much they may seem to be. I'm not going to condone what you are trying to do as I'm working on it too , however, I do caution you to go with a full face helmet and pads if you want to play with 40+mph coupled with wheelie-inducing acceleration... Darwin Award's aren't fun

Also, if you are planning on putting over 3000watts or so of power through one motor make sure you have either custom-engineered torque arms or a custom-engineered bike... otherwise too many hard starts will kill the dropouts quick. I'm working with a metal shop on 1/2in steel torque arms secured with 5 hose clamps (I don't want to weld it so if I upgrade the frame eventually I don't have to start over) and suggest you do the same... the forces on the dropouts are quite insane, especially if you are running a larger wheel.

Now with that out of the way I really do look forward to what you decide to do. I personally think a motor wound for more torque plus higher voltages would be easier / more efficient, however, the other way will work too... just more heat initially

 

[Bazaki]

Hey,

Well I have a Piaggio Beverly Scooter with 41 HP (fuel) it is perfect stealthy and fast, it looks like a moped so cruising at bicycle roads isn't a problem.

But in the summer cruising in the city with a MTB is even more fun, therefore I think it would be fun to have a hub motor and some lipo batteries at the frame, so you almost can't see that it is an E-bike.

Range is not important to me, but how to deal wih disc-brakes and a hub-motor ? And is there enough space for a sprocket on the rear hub motor ?

Maybe a better solution is to mount a HUB in the frontwheel so, all sprockets at the rear can stay original.

 

[dogman dan]

Get a few beers, snacks, whatever you like, and settle in for a real long read of the bike pics section. Lotsa good threads about the building of fast, overvolted ebikes in there. Start with any thread by Dr Bass of course, and look for others that say x5, or 5304, 5303 etc.

At this point the most commonly avaliable, fully figured out application is the crystalyte 5000 series motors. They can take a lot of amps and volts and not melt down as fast as other motors. They can be melted, but only a few have done it. Newer models of the x5 motor have disk mounts on the covers for rear motors. I'm not sure if the front motors have it, It's really unlikely that a front fork has the space for this motor and a disk rotor. Some downhill forks might, but they are alloy, and steel frames or at least steel dropouts added to alloy frames are recomended for above 1000 watts.

One issue though, is how to carry the battery for that many volts. Dr bass has done it well, but often it gets real hard to fit 72v 10 ah on a full suspension bike frame. And the batteries need to be a high discharge rate type. If only 2c cells are used, then you have to carry 20-30 amp hours of it, and then you really have a problem strapping it to a bike.

Budget for a bike you describe starts at about $2500 and goes to $5000 pretty easy. A suitable bike for motorcyle performance could cost you $1500 for starters. Start getting experience with lipo batteries. A RC toy is the thing for learning about lipo packs.

 

[Ariane]

Hi Doc,

Is really nice to see you here but Bazaki need to pedal his ebike, so a 24" wheel is better for this purpose, therefore I have recommend a X5306, a X5305 at 100 Volt as a top speed of about 63 Kph with a 20" wheel, and he need a top speed of 70 Kph and over with a lot of torque.

Black Arrow