Fault[11] "Voltage out of range" PhaseRunner utility software

[retrocycler]

Hi,

Sorry for the length of this post. I’m trying to be super clear about terms/signals/voltages, which are new to me and confusing.

I'm building up a bike with GMAC 10T and a PhaseRunner (PR) all hooked into a Cycle Analyst v.3 (CA). My bike isn't on the road yet, I'm still just setting it up, with bike in a stand with rear wheel/motor turning freely for testing.

I have my regen. braking set up with brake lever switches and a thumb throttle (the same one used for acceleration). So when the brake lever switch is tripped, the CA will interpret the thumb throttle voltage "in reverse,” sending an increasingly low throttle voltage signal (the CA output voltage) to the PhaseRunner as the throttle is pressed. I set the CA to send 0.85 V to initiate regen. braking, and this voltage will drop to 0.0 V at "full throttle" (CA output voltage). So when receiving such throttle signal voltages, the PR will draw power from the hub instead of giving it power. This then produces the regen. braking.

So yesterday, I had the PR hooked into my laptop with the data cable, running the PR software setup suite. The software shows what voltages are coming into the PR from the CA, and further allows/asks for all sorts of settings, and the regen. braking settings have me stumped. The PR software asks for a "brake start voltage" which is the voltage at which regen. braking is initiated - that one is no problem: it should match the CA regen. braking initial output voltage. But the PR sofware also asks for a "brake max voltage", which must be some minimum voltage signal (above 0 V), which produces maximum regenerative braking. This “brake max voltage” would be a minimum CA output voltage, and that is not a setting available on the CA - it seems the CA will always output 0.0 V minimum in any case.

In other words, at the CA, where I set the voltages to be sent to the PR (i.e. CA output voltages), I can set only one parameter for regen. braking: the CA output voltage for which regen. braking should begin (in my case, set to 0.85 V). But the CA has no setting for minimum output voltage (which would correspond to the “brake max voltage” expected by the PR). So then when a brake lever is squeezed a little bit, the CA sends out a 0.85 V signal. At the PR, using the PR software, I set a matching "brake start voltage" value for when braking begins. Then, if I want more regen. braking, I depress the throttle progressively more. As the throttle is pressed more, the CA will send out a decreasing voltage, all the way down to 0.0 V. ...and there's the rub, because the PR apparently does not like a throttle voltage of less than 0.3 V.

I have tried using the PR utility software to set the “brake max voltage” value to 0.0 V. Nevertheless, in every case that I test the controls, initiating regen. braking with the brake lever switch, then depressing the throttle lever, when the CA output voltage drops below 0.3 V (i.e. throttle significantly, but not all the way depressed), the PR software gives a "Fault(11) voltage out of range" error. This does not appear to disable the PR (i.e. shut it down), because I am able to continue operating it, releasing the brake lever, spinning the wheel forwards with the throttle, and again initiating regen. braking with the brake levers. But it makes me wonder what will happen to the regen. braking at that point when the fault happens - does it stop the regen. braking? When the PR sees a throttle signal of 0.3 V or less, does it just “let go” the regen. braking? (I cannot yet test this in the bike stand, as I still have the wheel turning freely) Also I just don't like the idea of running the system with faults/errors happening.

Presumably, if I could program the CA to not put out a voltage less than 0.31, there would be no problem. But this does not appear to be an option. Has anyone experience with this particular problem?

 

[amberwolf]

I don't have a PR, but just a Grinfineon which uses the prop regen out of the CA in the same basic manner. It doesn't have any settings which can be used to change it's voltage range, so no experience with that part. The CA has no options to change the bottom of the prop-regen output range, so if the PR can't go down to the same as the CA (which seems wierd, as they designed them to work together), then you'd have to use some external hardware to translate the CA's voltage range to that which the PR will accept.

It seems more likley that there is a different PR setting for this than the one you're using, but i have no idea what it might be. Is it possible that you need to swap the two settings, so that the PR setting you're using to match the CA's upper voltage would be set to 0.0, and the one that won't go lower than 0.3 needs to go to the 0.85v instead?



However...the PR has an option that the Grinfineon doesn't (but I wish it did), which is a *separate* analog brake input wire, that you can use to directly setup a braking force input dedicated specificaly to that, rather than having to relearn to use both a brake lever to engage and thena throttle to modulate.

Instead, you can either use a second throttle to just control braking, in which case engaging it will brake, overriding the throttle, or, even better, is to use a cable-operated throttle pulled by a brake lever, which is what your hands are already trained to use to stop you, no relearning needed.

 

[goatman]

i dont have the PR software on this laptop to check but are you sure brake max voltage isnt the max voltage that regen puts into the battery?

if youre set at 0.8v and your battery is 54.6v and try regen it wont work

if you hover the mouse over each setting a window should open saying what its for

 

[retrocycler]

...even better, is to use a cable-operated throttle pulled by a brake lever...

That's a neat idea, didn't know that was possible, I will explore it!

 

[retrocycler]

i dont have the PR software on this laptop to check but are you sure brake max voltage isnt the max voltage that regen puts into the battery?

Yes, I'm sure of that. The settings are in a section where you can map the throttle response voltage profile - it is clearly about throttle output voltages, and how the PR will respond to those voltages. I can also observe the voltages being sent by the CA - in real time, live - and observe the voltages received by the PR - in realtime live, in the software on screen.

I guess I should not complain too loudly. Fault (11) does not appear to disable the PR functionality. It's just an error that pops up on the PR utility software control panel.

Time to finish up this bike and do a road test!

thanks

 

[amberwolf]

...even better, is to use a cable-operated throttle pulled by a brake lever...

That's a neat idea, didn't know that was possible, I will explore it!

Here's a thread with various methods.
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=105460

Right now mine uses it the same way the throttle would be, on the regular throttle input to the CA, since my grinfineon doesn't have a secon input, so it uses the ebrake switch in the lever to switch a relay on that switches from the "real" throttle to the "brake lever throttle" whenever I'm braking, so the lever controls the amount of braking force.

ATM I have no mechanical rear brakes, just the regen, so that lever has no other cable from it. If it did, I would just use a dual-cable-pull lever, like I have on the right side for my front brake (though ATM that's only setup for the mechanical front brake, as the lever I chose wasn't the right one and complicates things and I haven't built the fix for it yet. )

Once I finish a pair of Lebowski-brained controllers, I'll have separate brake inputs from the throttle inputs, and can directly connect the COT brake lever to that, and not even run it thru the CA. Then the CA will only process the real throttle signal.