Fitting freewheels to splined freehub drivers

[deecanio]

HI Luke,

im not sure what we are doing for a bulk order, im up for whatever evryone else wants to do?
personally i want a 16t and a sickbikes one with the holes 8)
im up for just ordering some and having them delivered to your door but i don't know if the sick part is uk only, i'll find out.
for me, the quickest route is best, im not too worried about waiting for weeks whilst we mail for discounts to save ten dollars i want to build now!!!
let me know by pm what i can send for you for beers, you too thud, im already into Miles for copious amounts of bottles and i haven't tapped him up for the new setup math yet LOL


D

 

[spinningmagnets]

The two FW's I'm most interested in are the smallest tooth-count blue 16T (of course), but for the large diameter motor-sprocket mount, I like the 22T instead of the no-tooth flange ENO. I feel that would give me the most future experimental options.

If you are short a few orders to start the process, I will take two of whatever is going to be broach-splined (I will be VERY happy with a 16T and the sickbikes flange-ENO if thats all thats being splined). But if I could specify, those are the two I'd like most. I am in no hurry (it will be months before I have a shop of my own again) but I am glad to pay now if it will help acquire materials to start the production process.

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1757&start=45

 

[MitchJi]

Hi,

Should we wait and put together one big buy from WI, or just have folks send me bunches of freewheels. lol

I think as a minimum we should contact Sickbikes and a few WI dealers about a quantity discount. I can do a little checking early next week.

This might save a few bucks and it might be a little easier for Luke to get one or two boxes rather than 20 individual shipments.

 

[enoob]

now my neck hurts from watching the shop walk through more than a few times with my head slanted. lol thanks
cool beans . id get lost in there for a month before i came out caked in grease

i love the internet . its this stuff right here that lets a person believe in the whole "internet changing the planet" stuff. free information exchange combined with a community effort . its what power mongers fear.

i cant thank you guys enough for showing me all this and not laughing me into retreat once i decided to join in.

liveforphysics i hope you feel no pressure, only a sense of earned respect for your effort.

i can wait till the new year with no problem as i wont be ready for it till then anyhow but if things get rolling and it helps things along ill send my "care" package your way right away.

 

[flyinmonkie]

Great work guys. I've watching the progress quietly, but excitedly. Certainly makes me wish I could go out and set up a full shop tomorrow. Anyway, I am keen for a couple of splined freewheels as well. I'll keep watching to see if there is going to be bulk order. No major rush for me. I am just beginning to very slowly collect parts for my first RC bike and these are a definite on the list.

FM

 

[liveforphysics]

Thank you for all the kind words guys There is a lot of power in a group of like-minded folks freely shareing there various skills and knowledge to tackle problems. It's so awesome that we've got such a good group here.


I've done 3 now. The first one was the RnD sacrifice unit used to help check out the cuts on various fixtures before we got things dialed-in. It's actually still functional, just has a few slots that are too deep. I'm going to run it on my personal bike.

The second two made with the last version of the broach support fixture are pefect

Miles- PM me a shipping address, you've got a much deserved 16T splined ENO ready for you.



For the rest of the crew, it seems the 16T + sic bikes flanged freewheel pair seems to be the most desired set.
Does anyone have a good contact line established with White industries all ready? Should I just contact them out of the blue and try to get the lowest price I can on a batch of perhaps 40 (total) of the 16T and flanged freewheels? That would only be something like $1,600 if I could get them for $40 each, which I could front myself.I have a feeling quite a few of you folks all ready have them and would like them broached, so feel free to PM me for a mailing address.

Something that might work out very nicely would be a small padded envelope with my address on a mailer label on the front, and then inside include the return mailer lablel, so I can just carefully open the envelope, remove the freewheel(s), lathe them, broach them, put them back inside, tape it up, and stick on the return label and send it back. It seems like that would make it pretty easy for me.

 

[AussieJester]

Something that might work out very nicely would be a small padded envelope with my address on a mailer label on the front, and then inside include the return mailer lablel, so I can just carefully open the envelope, remove the freewheel(s), lathe them, broach them, put them back inside, tape it up, and stick on the return label and send it back. It seems like that would make it pretty easy for me.

^^^ i think this is the perfect solution for those sending freewheels Lukes way, then postage is handled senders end Luke only needs to pop freewheel back in and drop it in the post ...will save him a bunch of time when he starts getting a few freewheels coming his way

Good job too Luke....I wish i needed one myself so i could get in on a bulk buy :: sigh :: So will we see the 20hp monster on the road again soonish then mate?

KiM

 

[liveforphysics]

Good job too Luke....I wish i needed one myself so i could get in on a bulk buy :: sigh :: So will we see the 20hp monster on the road again soonish then mate?

KiM

Yep. This time with a SRAM 3-spd hub, dual splined freewheels, a light extron sprocket for #219 chain.

That should solve every mechanical wish I had with the bike.

I've also got a nutter idea for a very simple DIY sensored brushless controller retro-fit for outrunner RC motors. I don't want to clog this thread up with it, but if I can get it all figured out and working, I can promise you you're going to want one KiM.

Visualize a printed bumper sticker like 1"x ~12" sticker. Flat black base with 6 rows of white dashed lines. You wrap this sticker around the base of your rotor, clocked correctly with the magnet ring. Then you mount a little potted circuit board with 6 little 4nS (extremely fast!) photo diodes. The photo diodes input power is linked to a simple PWM source that is controlled from a throttle, and the ouput of the photo diodes goes into an H-bridge FET driver chip with built in no pass-through logic. This switches a 6-fet controller running 6 monster 300amp 100v FETs stiffened by a big pile of low ESR caps. It's caveman, but I don't see why it wouldn't be better than any RC controller offerings with respect to power handling, torque controller, low speed start-up, etc etc.

Anyways... I will start a new thread about it when I get time to work on building it.


Don't forget the 100mph project bicycle is in the pipeline as well. It will be the rolling test bench for the big axial motor.

 

[bigmoose]

Very nicely done Luke! I like your log splitter automation of the process. You did the QC check, and they fit the male spline OK, right? I don't know how close the final tolerance came out, but I would suggest checking each one as they are broached on the male spline, just in case there is a wear issue on the fixture/broach. This would give some data on tooling life capability as you go along also.

Again, :thumbup: for your execution!

 

[liveforphysics]

Very nicely done Luke! I like your log splitter automation of the process. You did the QC check, and they fit the male spline OK, right? I don't know how close the final tolerance came out, but I would suggest checking each one as they are broached on the male spline, just in case there is a wear issue on the fixture/broach. This would give some data on tooling life capability as you go along also.

Again, :thumbup: for your execution!

Thank you for the kind words and input Moose

I have layed it up against my test sprocket, and it visually is a clone. I still do not have a tester hub, lol, but I will try to pick one up tomorrow.

 

[kfong]

Great progress guys, I'm still in for a pair. Will go with what you guys decide on. Kudo's on making this a working product.

 

[MitchJi]

Hi Luke,

For the rest of the crew, it seems the 16T + sic bikes flanged freewheel pair seems to be the most desired set.
Does anyone have a good contact line established with White industries all ready? Should I just contact them out of the blue and try to get the lowest price I can on a batch of perhaps 40 (total) of the 16T and flanged freewheels? That would only be something like $1,600 if I could get them for $40 each, which I could front myself.I have a feeling quite a few of you folks all ready have them and would like them broached, so feel free to PM me for a mailing address.

Miles has already contacted WI about this project. Maybe he will be kind enough to contact WI. He mentioned 160 as a required quantity. Maybe a smaller quantity for an order with no custom work would be Ok? That might mean 22t instead of the Sickbike flanged version. I will be happy to contact Sickbikes about a quantity buy of flanged FW's (let me know) but I don't want to do that if it might confuse or interfere with a direct buy from WI.

 

[katou]

I'm in for 2, whatever you all decide is good. I've got cash ready to go, so just tell me when. Will this spline pattern fit all splined cassettes or just Shimano?

I do however really think that LFP should be getting something per FW for the work. I am very grateful for the work he is willing to do, and maybe it's enough for him, but I would like to do more.

Instead of setting an amount that we think is fair like an add-on charge (which might feel a bit like a wage) let's just send him a little extra. That way we get to say thanks in our own way, and LFP doesn't feel like he's picked up a part time job with deadlines etc. I'm sure he could use a little something for a new motor, new controller parts, whatever.

Katou

 

[GGoodrum]

Wow, Luke, this is way cool. I can't believe you got this going so quick. Last time I checked, you were coming down with something (spline flu... too funny... :lol: ), and now you managed to McGiver together a solution, using what you had within reach, which apparently was rope and an aquarium pump? You amaze me. :lol:

I talked to Doug White when we first started down this path. He told me the wholesale cost for these was $40. The tooling for the broaching was going to be $2-3k. I then asked what sort of quantity would be required and that's when he said about 100. If we just wanted to get wholesale pricing for 16T and flanged versions, I'm not sure we really need to order them in lots of 100. I think that only applied to the completed splined units, mainly because he didn't think he could sell them to anyone eles.

-- Gary

 

[liveforphysics]

Wow, Luke, this is way cool. I can't believe you got this going so quick. Last time I checked, you were coming down with something (spline flu... too funny... :lol: ), and now you managed to McGiver together a solution, using what you had within reach, which apparently was rope and an aquarium pump? You amaze me. :lol:

I talked to Doug White when we first started down this path. He told me the wholesale cost for these was $40. The tooling for the broaching was going to be $2-3k. I then asked what sort of quantity would be required and that's when he said about 100. If we just wanted to get wholesale pricing for 16T and flanged versions, I'm not sure we really need to order them in lots of 100. I think that only applied to the completed splined units, mainly because he didn't think he could sell them to anyone eles.

-- Gary

Gary- You mind giving him a call and seeing if he just happens to have stock on hand to send me 10 of the 16t units, and 10 of the flanged units? I can just put that on my credit card. That should be enough to get 10 people setup to start with, and when folks see the advantages of total drive system isolation at the rear hub, it's going to build a lot of demand.

 

[gwhy!]

Gary- You mind giving him a call and seeing if he just happens to have stock on hand to send me 10 of the 16t units, and 10 of the flanged units? I can just put that on my credit card. That should be enough to get 10 people setup to start with, and when folks see the advantages of total drive system isolation at the rear hub, it's going to build a lot of demand.

I agree with luke, I think WI is being a little short sighted as regards the demand...

 

[johnrobholmes]

You will have to get flanged through sickbikes, White won't sell em to anybody else because it was their product idea.


IF this gets to a larger production run, I think we should do a freewheel with both a flange and a cog. Like the Dos, but with one flange. They will do that for us.

 

[GGoodrum]

Gary- You mind giving him a call and seeing if he just happens to have stock on hand to send me 10 of the 16t units, and 10 of the flanged units? I can just put that on my credit card. That should be enough to get 10 people setup to start with, and when folks see the advantages of total drive system isolation at the rear hub, it's going to build a lot of demand.

Yes, I will call him Monday morning. I'll also see if we can have our own flange version, maybe with 4 or 6 holes, instead of the 5 used on the Sickbikes variant.

-- Gary

 

[deecanio]

cool, see what you can do Gary - are the flanged ones exclusively made for sickbikes then?
i'll take a 16t for sure and then it will depend what WI say - if they wont give us the sickbikes ones i'll send one over Luke but definately pay you for a 16t direct from WI in the meantime.
I do have 2 x the 24t WI ones on my current build so i guess if white arent doing the sick ones i'll probably send one of those over, the one with no teeth, gummy eno
let us know how you get on, by the way have you had any chance to look at the delta/wye boards yet?


*** edit *** if the sickbike falnged eno's are UK only im quite happy to buy a quantity and ship them direct to Luke to help out our overseas cousins.

Cheers,

D

 

[MitchJi]

Hi,

Something that might work out very nicely would be a small padded envelope with my address on a mailer label on the front, and then inside include the return mailer lablel, so I can just carefully open the envelope, remove the freewheel(s), lathe them, broach them, put them back inside, tape it up, and stick on the return label and send it back. It seems like that would make it pretty easy for me.

If people pay via Paypal (hopefully throwing in at least $10 per FW) its very easy to print a USPS Postage label from Paypal by clicking something like "print shipping label" next to their payment. The Paypal interface is much nicer, with more options than the USPS site. The Paypal interface fills in your return address and their shipping address. Better tracking, filling in the shipping address, and it allows Parcel Post.

If you don't know the weight you could use Priority Mail fixed price boxes. For foreign addresses you can fill in the customs forms online. For priority mail you can even schedule a pickup by your postman with instructions. These are the instructions I sent when shipping the Nuvinci Hubs (I didn't want to leave $275 hubs at the mailbox or next to my front door):

In the big Blue Barrel next to the back door.

To get to the back door go through the gate on the right side of the driveway.

You can also access the Paypal shipping interface directly for any shipment but if you do that you need to fill in the address:
https://www.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_ship-now

Gary- You mind giving him a call and seeing if he just happens to have stock on hand to send me 10 of the 16t units, and 10 of the flanged units? I can just put that on my credit card. That should be enough to get 10 people setup to start with, and when folks see the advantages of total drive system isolation at the rear hub, it's going to build a lot of demand.

Yes, I will call him Monday morning. I'll also see if we can have our own flange version, maybe with 4 or 6 holes, instead of the 5 used on the Sickbikes variant.

-- Gary

Maybe after Gary has prices and the flanged FW's issues are decided (if not directly from WI maybe a quantity buy from Sick) allow a week or 10 days for people to send you payments via Paypal and order the corresponding quantities?

 

[jmygann]

After the freewheel clears the end of the free hub the free hub splines taper to a smaller OD where the freewheel may have slack. Could that be an issue ??

 

[deecanio]

I believe Miles indicated that after fitting two enos side by side the lock from a normal cassette would be sufficient?

D

 

[AussieJester]

cool, see what you can do Gary - are the flanged ones exclusively made for sickbikes then?

Yes they definitely are i checked on this myself few months ago whilst in a "heated discussion" with Pablo form SickBikes on the
moteredbike forums, point blank WI wont sell to anyone but sickbikes, the distributors for WI cant even get them :-S
If Gary approaches them and asks for a 'altered' version things might be different...

KiM

 

[Miles]

As I said, the minimum batch for specials is 160 off.........

 

[spinningmagnets]

If the ENO's last as long as I think they will, they might end up being used in a couple different builds (per buyer) over time. Might I humbly repeat my suggestion of the slotted 22T ENO? you can easily grind the teeth off if you wish, but I like the idea that I could dis-assemble this and try it out on another project as a 22T, or reuse it as its currently intended large sprocket base. 2 options for the same price as the sick-bikes ENO-flanged unit