Found this In The Scrap Bin

BSATOM

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Jun 27, 2015
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Humboldt Co. CA
I went to the local scrap yard to see if they had any new bikes in to scavenge parts from. My friend bought a OCC Schwinn Stingray chopper for $25 bucks complete. I found this out front for free...what a surprise. Maybe I will make a longer swingarm for it and put a 4t Mxus 3000 in it sometime. I just got a GT LTS3 frame for a fast bike build with the 4t I already have. Oh yeah, it is a Genesis V2100 frame.
 

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There is a reason someone threw that thing away, you know.

Folks could avoid a lot of trouble and disappointment if they just took their new Walmart bikes and deposited them directly into a recycling bin. That's really all they're good for.
 
Without offering a reason why they are not a good ebike ingredient to build off of, you come off as nothing more than a negative snob troll rich boy catalog sniffer. (no disrespect intended though)
So if you had your way, every V2100 ebike build would be taken apart immediately and the frame would be scrapped.
That is a bunch of orphaned Farfle swingarms, the poor children...
Also, by your mentality, nothing in the scrap yard could possibly be usable, because there is a reason someone scrapped it.....
I am glad you are not in a position of world power, because you would be a really weird dictator.
Anyway, please explain in detail why they are such a poor frame that they should all be scrapped immediately.
Also, what dual suspension frame do you have to offer us all that is in the same price range as the V2100 but better?
 
I am afraid he is right - that is only worth its value in scrap metal.

This is why - labor is too expensive now days to be refurbishing things that you can just buy new from China for the cost of 3-4 hours of landscaper labor.

I should take my own advice - yesterday a friend and I spent two hours truing to make a 12mm torque arm into a 14mm torque arm. It would have been way smarter to have just bought a second 14mm arm from Amazon for $38 without being trying, which is what I ended up doing anyway after wasting two hours and messing up the 12mm one.

That frame new and shiny, as a complete bike, is super inexpensive.

Unless your time is worth less than about $3 an hour, it would be much cheaper to just buy that bike new with all parts for $147.69 than to spend dozens of hours finding and buying other parts and trying to make that frame into something;

http://www.walmart.com/ip/42732939?productRedirect=true

I think I saw it in the local store for $129 actually. The brakes and detailers were stamped out of sheet metal. Really it is amazing that they can build and ship this and sell it for a profit for that price.
 
you know every $ you earn is paid by someone. or put in other words: for every dollar you saved someone earned a dollar less.
so if walmart can sell this bike for that little money then someone had to work for very little money. be it the employee at the shop, the truck driver who delivered it, the wholesale seller who sold it, or the chinese worker who built it.
 
The reason he's " a negative snob troll rich boy catalog sniffer" is because he gets paid to fix bikes that are worth fixing. I don't think even HE will go along with the other statement that you should feel guilty everytime you've spent less than the maximum price possible. The WalMart bikes are cheap because there's LESS labor going into them, not because the builders work as hard as with expensive bikes without getting paid. The same people are building both, the expensive line makers just don't want you to know that.

Some people just assume that something that is of no use to him is of no use to anyone. I posted on this board recently about Jean-Baptiste Colbert, the oppressive French finance minister. If you're in the market place selling something that didn't suit HIM, you'd be imprisoned. A later minister commenting on him would say "That we cannot grow except by lowering our neighbors is a detestable notion! Only malice and malignity of heart is satisfied with such a principle and our (national) interest is opposed to it. Let it be, for heaven's sake! Let it be!"

The best tinker toys are those that don't cost anything. Made all the more fun by the knowledge that you're tormenting those who just can't stand it that you're working on it.

H.L.Mencken said:
Puritanism. The haunting fear that someone, somewhere, may be happy.
 
I like your comment Izeman. I often wonder about that, and think that's ultimately a great point. Is wealth infinite? No it's finite. So, for there to be 'rich' there also must be 'poor' ?

I love buying things from the scrap yard. I started a business on a shoestring with some basic welding skills and scrap priced steel from the yards. Plus I like the idea of recycling more on a grass roots, noncorporate level.

Good on you Op, the genesis isn't so bad of a frame imo. I would use one. Do the guys that spend 10x more really think they are getting a better 'deal' ? No, there's more profit margin the more you spend on a product. :cry:

And +1 Daunt
 
That bike is actually in the scrap bin for a number of reasons..

1) too small..
2) flexy chassis..
3) aftermarket shock that isn't a spring? good luck with that..
4) cheap tubing..
5) wimpy dropouts.. you're gonna need the extended swingarm to correct that.
6) Battery space? not so much. kinaye motorsports does sell this bag where you can drape the battery over the sides though.

I bought one used once and ended up selling it within a week. I just couldn't make it work in any way.
 
Come on you guys, he already mentioned the quality swing arm from farfle. For all we know he will cut and weld that frame into something sturdy and strong. If he does like many have done before him on ES he could cut part of the tubing and put in sheet metal to convert frame into super strong monocoque frame,he wouldn't even need to look for a battery bag. If he scores a nice set of forks and shocks second hand this could be a high quality build without much money spend. It will take manhours and welding.

I applaud re use of anything. People throw away too much a it is. Our piles of garbage is growing, and even if many does something too many does little or nothing to change this. I mean do you really need a new kitchen every 3-5 years? I must say I am amazed seeing all the crap people are buying, and the money they spend on crap. They shop like there is no tomorrow like it is year 2007 still.

Reuse of a frame for an e-bike is so right in my eyes. It is green no emission locally, and reuse rather then landfill.
 
I love reusing things too, but this is an aluminum frame made out of a pretty questionable grade. If you have the means to make it into something good, you might as well just make your own frame to begin with and do it proper.

Or start on an aluminum frame that is better to start with.

You can make this frame better with a farfle swingarm, but it still has it's issues and limits.
 
It is odd to me when I see a used car for $3000 because it is a useful car. I think, if that were the only car left on earth it would be worth millions. But at some point, the cost to to repair something, in either dollars or your own time, gets uncomfortably close to or above the cost to just buy a new one. This is especially true as they just keep on cranking out new ones, keeping prices low, and further reducing the value of existing items. If the US changed from income tax to a consumption tax, as there is in the UK in the form of a VAT, people would buy fewer new items, but that would have an effect on companies that manufacture, and their employees.
 
Nice find dude! I paid retail for my frame to get my Farfle build going, would've loved to salvage it for free/cheap considering the frame was the only part I kept. Ignore the naysayers, these frames come from the same Taiwanese or Chinese factories as those producing the big brand frames using the same quality of aluminum, weld filler, and welding techniques. So what if the frame geometry is dated or not the most efficient when pedaling, it's more than good enough to soak up bumps in the road when you outfit decent suspension components. If you use the Kilowatt bag and Farfle swingarm with a rear hub motor, it really balances out the CG of the bike too. Good luck with the build!
 
Looks good, I'm in the middle of a v2100 build myself, check it out: https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=72043&p=1087471

You're in luck, that frame is pretty much the only valuable part of the whole bike. I would definitely upgrade the crappy stock rear suspension if I were you.

Does anyone know somewhere I can get a farfle swingarm or similar? I messaged farfle and he isn't making them anymore.
 
There was some interest from teslanv to try and find a fabricator to produce a run of them to sell, but I think the project died. You might want to check with him though.

Also, there's some CAD files/drawings floating around on Farfle's original thread I believe if you want to use those to try and have one fabbed.
 
neptronix said:
I love reusing things too, but this is an aluminum frame made out of a pretty questionable grade. If you have the means to make it into something good, you might as well just make your own frame to begin with and do it proper.

Or start on an aluminum frame that is better to start with.

You can make this frame better with a farfle swingarm, but it still has it's issues and limits.


I can not say I agree. Now I have not rode such a bike, nor looked it over so keep that in mind. But the essence and spirit of reuse I feel is more important then this frames origin or its quality. I believe that if the better part of the frame is cut off and replaced with sheets of aluminum the original frame is still the basis for the builds. The original frame has given its DNA and geometry and it might even be easier to build as you already has a working geometry to use rather then have to work it all out on your own. To see all of the thread from where I stolen those pics click the very last pic of the build completed. Work done by brother timma.

There are more frames build with this approach on the forum, and what I love about this is that they are able to put something that has been discarded by others to good use. Sure, one can argue if it is still any of the original bike there in the end but as far as I am concerned it is just as much about the spirit of reuse. To use something from a recycle bin and make something nice of it, and hopefully it will help you save cash as well.



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Do you understand that without subsequent heat treatment, aluminum is only about 1/4 as strong where it has been welded as it was before welding? Aluminum frames don't lend themselves well to modification, even if they are of good quality.

Walmart bikes are only good enough to convince people to buy them, and not one tiny bit better. If and when they are rideable, it is an unintended side effect. Their purpose is complete once money changes hands.
 
Chalo said:
Do you understand that without subsequent heat treatment, aluminum is only about 1/4 as strong where it has been welded as it was before welding? Aluminum frames don't lend themselves well to modification, even if they are of good quality.
that's not true for all alloys. 7xxx get's stronger again after time. 3 weeks and it's as good as new.
and you only need to build stronger to compensate any material issues you may have.
 
After I spoke with a pro welder I have a more laid back thinking about heat treatment after welding aluminum/steel.
This guy makes a living from welding and he simply asked me if I planned to use the welded parts without adding a paint job to it after. I had to say no, and he promptly told me to do powder coating as the curing/heating post blasting the powder would relief almost all of any tension left from welding, and yes the temps for powder coating is lower then what is normally used to heat threat steel/aluminum but even so heating in an oven used for powder coating will give 80% (rough rule of thumb) of original strength back, then some more strength will come back over time.
 
izeman said:
Chalo said:
Do you understand that without subsequent heat treatment, aluminum is only about 1/4 as strong where it has been welded as it was before welding? Aluminum frames don't lend themselves well to modification, even if they are of good quality.
that's not true for all alloys. 7xxx get's stronger again after time. 3 weeks and it's as good as new.

Not true at all. The kernel of fact in there is the happy coincidence that 7005 aluminum (and only that specific alloy) happens to solution heat treat at air cooling rates, when using tubing of appropriate weight for a bicycle. That's why 7005 is very popular for bicycle frames. It still needs to be artificially aged-- baked at a lower temperature-- to develop full strength.

Other 7000 series alloys don't do this. Most aren't even weldable.

and you only need to build stronger to compensate any material issues you may have.

But if you're retrofitting an existing frame, you can't really do that, can you? Not to the part you're trying to reuse.

macribs said:
and yes the temps for powder coating is lower then what is normally used to heat threat steel/aluminum but even so heating in an oven used for powder coating will give 80% (rough rule of thumb) of original strength back, then some more strength will come back over time.

You're conflating the solution heat treatment step including quench (which requires close to 1000 degrees F) with the artificial aging step (which happens between 400 and 500 degrees). The aging step is not of benefit by itself.

Even if the powdercoater did a burn off of the previous coating at a temperature high enough to solution heat treat, it would not work without the water quench.
 
Its funny that every new hobby I get into as soon as I check the forums its always the same thing. That stuff is crap because it doesnt cost enough, your cant do this amazing extreme thing with it or its just made from lower quality parts. There are always snobs or purists or whatever you want to call them.

1. Not everyone is going to ride a marathon or trek up offroad hills and mountains and need the best/lightest/efficient frame or components available.
2. Not everyone has funds for that type of bike
3. Some people like to customize and build from scratch instead of paying out the nose for stuff they're going to change anyway
4. If you need to be somewhere and cant drive or bus it youll take what you can get.
5. There has not been any point that I have seen where there has been a mass epidemic of walmart bikes frames breaking. Components maybe but frames/bikes are usually ok for general use.

Just saying there are lots of people using walmart bikes for daily transportation or e bike conversions and have used them for years sometime. You may have to upgrade or adjust some things but that's part of owning anything. Just because it doesn't meet your quality standards doesn't mean its not an ok product. Not the best but good enough.
 
I speak as a longtime professional bike mechanic when I say that all department store bikes are broken, all the time, and people simply tolerate them that way because they don't know better. This is direct observation, not conjecture.

Imagine a world where most car drivers chug around in Pakistani made cars, trailing a cloud of blue smoke, rods knocking, radiator steaming, one or more tires flat-- yet don't acknowledge that there's anything wrong with their cars, and resist attempts by service professionals to repair them. That's how American cyclists are. They assume because they bought their broken bikes brand new that they are how they're supposed to be.

Just yesterday at the bike shop I served a young man who had just bought a new Walmart fixie bike. The fork was turned around backwards, the handlebars and stem were loose, and the brake pivots were so floppy that the brake pads swung up into the tire when applied. Brand new, indeed.

For the cost of parts and labor to set his bike in order, plus what he paid for it, he could have had one of the inexpensive fixie bikes that my shop sells, and we'd have sold him one that fit him, too.
 
Did you talk to all the people that bought department store bikes??? Lol

I'm sure your a great bike mechanic with endless knowledge of the workings of bikes. (Not being sarcastic I've seen your other posts). But. By your rationale at least 50% of people would never ride bikes, kids wouldn't get new bikes for Christmas because most established bike brands start at about $300 min and still come with lower spec components. Not sure what type of area you live in but most people can't /won't spend that type of money. A bike is a toy. It's not a passion or something that brings joy to their life.

Also you haven't proven your point. What you described was a bike assembled by someone that didn't know what they where doing. Not the bikes fault walmart doesn't have experienced bike mechanics.
 
It's not the bike's fault it wasn't made worth a damn either, but that's why it's not worth owning.

My rule of thumb is, don't buy a bike from a store that won't repair a bike. Such a store has no vested interest in selling a bike that works reliably.
 
I never thought a bikes for kids as toys. It is fitness and educational gear to develop an active outdoor lifestyle.
 
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