Frame Lock – Which one?

Eclectic

1 kW
Joined
Aug 6, 2012
Messages
308
Location
Southern California (San Gabriel Valley)
I’m thinking about getting a frame lock for my ebike. One of those ring locks that mount to the frame and lock the back wheel. Seems like it would be perfect for those quick trips to the store.

From what I have found out so far, it looks like Abus and Axa are the ones but I am open to suggestions. Anybody out there have experience or recommendations. What model; where to buy it; how to mount and use it?
 
So I'm guessing that not many here use these locks?

Bicycle-frame-lock_image_1col[1].jpg

danish-bike-lock[1].jpg
 
I've been considering what method to use myself. Have only used a cable lock in the past.
You're prob already aware of amazon's benefits, but I love the reviews. There's literally 1000's of ratings for the first page of locks. Looks like kryptonite is scoring high?

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=bike+lock

But my bad, you're asking about something real unique
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=bike+frame+lock&rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3Abike+frame+lock

Abus top hit, but 3 reviews.

Looks pretty cool.
I'm considering a steering lock or a keyed switch that turns off batt voltage and locks phases together- other than that or the Abus, wouldn't it be best to tether as much off the bike as possible to something (closeto)unmovable with something (closeto)unbreakable?
 
Never used any lock like the OP and reply show.

But I have a thread to discuss steering locks and ideas, existing and DIY
http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=68790
 
I saw your post AW and must have been comtempating it about the time you @ your post- def curious what you come up with, but I think thinking simply locking phases of a nonfreewheeling motor are maybe the way I would go- and even better- tieing the bike to something unmovable?
These bikes can be carried away easily compared to a m.cycle with a st.lock or lockphases?
 
Locking phases (shorting them together) works to make it harder to pedal, but the two main ways of doing that are easily defeatable, unless you have an electronic lock that is a part of the controller itself, and requires a "key" they can't bypass.

The first is a break-before-make 3P2T switch (or equivalent relay(s), that toggles between all phases shorted together and each phase connected to its controller-side wire. This switch will have to be large, and capable of handling the max phase currents (can be much more than battery currents) of the motor, as well as the max voltages involved. It's been done with smaller switches, and with relays (including those not rated anywhere near hgih enough), and worked, for both this and for delta-wye switching. I have a little toggle switch that was planned for a small geared-hub bike (DayGlo Avenger) but I never did get around to doing that.

FWIW, the most undefeatable way of doing this is using relays inside the motor itself (as is done for delta-wye), whose power-off state is shorting phases...but there is a risk. Vibration on a normal ride could cause relay chatter that causes one or more of the relays to disengage controller-to-motor and instead short the phases. It would require two relays to do this at the same time, so it's not all that likely, but it could happen. BUT if power to the relays was ever interrupted on a ride, it would suddenly short all phases together at whatever speed you were going...and you wouldn't be going that speed anymore. Bad juju. There's ways to prevent that from happening, with a switch (using a locking cover to block it's movement, etc), unlike relays (most, anyway).


And if even one relay does it, it could arc across controller-motor connection and burn the contacts and keep you from riding further, if the current for that phase couldnt' get thru anymore. You'd have to open the motor to fix it.



The second is using an interconnect plug/harness (connecting controller to motor) that you take away from the bike, and replace with a shorting plug on teh motor phases instead. THis is harder to bypass, but if they are aware of it and know what you do (observation of target) they can pull that plug and pedal off, or even have made their own interconnect harness to reconnect the controller to motor (though if you don't have the pins 1 to 1 on there, the chances of them happening upon hte correct phase combination is relatively low).


There's ways to make each of these harder to defeat, of course.



A physical lock that prevents parts from moving is probably easier for the common thief to defeat, vs the electrical/electronic kind, but if it's beefy enough or awkward enough to get to with portable tools, it could slow them down enough to get stopped before you lose your bike.


Using multiple "locks" of whatever type will increase the time it takes to steal your bike...but remember that the typical bike, even relatively heavy ebikes, is still light enough for one person to throw in the back of a truck and drive off, to defeat the locks at leisure, or part it out. They do this with motorcycles using teams of a few people....

Even bigger heavier bikes like mine are still vulnerable to that, though it's less likely they'd want mine given their highly custom nature (recognizability) and ugliness.


So that's why my interest in the locks...especially since I have made both my main rides "prettier" than normal, and thus potentially more desirable (definitely more attention-grabbing). The more stuff they have to defeat to take them, the less likely they'll do so while it's out of my view or access.


Still, the best way to not lose your bike is to not leave it unattended / not visible to you, for even a fraction of a minute.
 
Tru, Tru, AW.

Everything you said. Agreed max prevention is to disallow ability to pickup and carry away.

http://www.electricscooterparts.com/keyswitches.html

There's a 4 wire switch on here that would tie two phases when off. It doesn't pass power when switch is on, so just jump the phase wires for shorting when switch is off. The one I bought can be tapped into a 1 1/8 steerer tube very tightly, thus protecting switch and wires. Just wish there was a 5wire (3wire on when switch off) and that I wasn't freewheeling and using a starnut to tighten my headset lol. Oh well, the key will keep the stupid from hurting themselves or driving off @ 30mph.
Maybe some sort of brake lock would be just as well to deter theft on anything not bolted down?
 
Careful with any siwtch that just shorts a phase. Either forgetting to turn it off, or an unseeable mechanical failure inside it may blow up the controller as soon as you turn the bike on. :(
 
Sure, but you can't forget because you have to turn it on to run the bike. Like a car. When the key is off/out, it opens the circuit for controller to be able to run and closes continuity on selective wiring (phases or alarm). When on, all is reversed, and it feels like a quality ignition. I don't think dangers to the motor/controller for shorting phases are any worse than the standard wiring run between each?
Still would like to see a simple mechanical brake lock though, pref at the levers?
 
Eclectic said:
So I'm guessing that not many here use these locks?
An outstanding lock for quick stops / medium security situations. Super convenient - 3 seconds to lock - a key feature to "always locking"...

Since it works by making it impossible to turn the wheel, it doesn't need a secure mount to the frame - actually needs no mount at all to work. The mount is just a way to carry it around...

I had no room in the back (electrics and stuff) so mounted one on the fork (details in this post).

mundoLock.jpg
nutspecial said:
Still would like to see a simple mechanical brake lock though, pref at the levers?

grip-lock-yellow-7001w_350x300.jpg
 
It's kinda hard to imagine a scenario where that brake lever lock would actually prevent a bicycle being stolen ;)
 
Pulling phases and shorting them is nice, but really only takes a disconnect of the hall wires and/or throttle connector (unless those are soldered) to make it so they won't just ride away. How many thieves out there could diagnose that a hall sensor and throttle wasn't connected?

Then the next level of thief above that has a truck and will carry your bike away. A loud motion alarm will help thwart those attempts.

I could see a frame lock providing a good amount of security in many situations, especially combined with other measures.
 
cal3thousand said:
Pulling phases and shorting them is nice, but really only takes a disconnect of the hall wires and/or throttle connector (unless those are soldered) to make it so they won't just ride away. How many thieves out there could diagnose that a hall sensor and throttle wasn't connected?
Doesn't matter, if it's got pedals. ;)

The phase shorting is to make it much harder to pedal away (and disable the motor at the same time).
 
amberwolf said:
cal3thousand said:
Pulling phases and shorting them is nice, but really only takes a disconnect of the hall wires and/or throttle connector (unless those are soldered) to make it so they won't just ride away. How many thieves out there could diagnose that a hall sensor and throttle wasn't connected?
Doesn't matter, if it's got pedals. ;)

The phase shorting is to make it much harder to pedal away (and disable the motor at the same time).

True, but I'll just walk up and catch him next block if he's really going to 'try' to pedal my heavy ass bike :D


What's a better theft deterrent? Frame lock or disc lock?
 
cal3thousand said:
What's a better theft deterrent? Frame lock or disc lock?

If a frame lock is positioned within the rear triangle (under the seat stays) it will prevent stealing the bike by removing the wheel.

If you use one of the wheel locks (AXA , Abus or Trelock) that supports plug-in chains and cables, you can also lock the bike to a stationary object.
 
@AW – I saw your posts about locks (I thought a lot about a motorcycle style fork lock). As much as I enjoy your very logical arguments, I think I am going in a slightly different direction.

@teklektik – When I began researching this idea, I came across your post which started me on the frame lock tangent (thank you). I found it surprising that there wasn’t more, that’s why the shout out to see if there were others.

Some of my thought processes:

I do not live in a target rich environment for bike thieves. Since I am often the only bicycle when I stop for errands, I doubt that there are (currently) many professional bike thief crews around here. I realize that a determined thief could defeat most anything I can do.

I tend not own things that other people covet. I was always of the opinion that if others covet what I own, then I shouldn’t be surprised if they covet it enough to take it. I am also very much a function over form kinda guy. I prefer to have others covet the way I live my life not my possessions.

I believe that this lowers the probability of theft attempts considerably. My goal (with this lock) is to keep honest people (and drunks and lazy opportunists) honest.

I also like convenience. If something is not convenient or takes too much time, I’ll often find an excuse not to do it; so convenience is a high priority (a lock doesn’t do much good if it is so much hassle that you don’t use it).

This type of lock just makes it difficult (if not near impossible) for the bike to roll. The inability to roll and the weight of the bike (~80 lbs, 36 kg) should be a significant deterrent. I realize that a couple of guys could still pick it up and throw it in the back of a truck. I will probably still carry an additional cable or u-lock for the more sketchy situations (some of these frame locks also have an optional cable for tethering).

I know that teklektik had a problem with mounting his lock on the rear wheel and I agree that having it in a highly visible location does add to the deterrent factor. I think that mounting the lock like the picture of the Dutch bike above would make it extremely difficult to remove the lock and leave the bike still ridable.

If I look at other (real) bicycle cultures (the Dutch and Chinese), these locks are used extensively. It is my understanding that many new Dutch bike come with these types of locks built in. They are also approved by many Dutch insurance companies.

Edit: I guess the image above calls it a Danish bike not a Dutch bike.
 
cal3thousand said:
What's a better theft deterrent? Frame lock or disc lock?

I looked at the disc locks (a lock on the brake disk making it difficult for the wheel to turn). They both make it difficult for the wheel to roll. The disc lock is much lighter. The frame lock is much more convenient, locks the wheel (motor) to the frame, is always mounted to the frame (and is always available) and has the ability to add an additional tether.

It was a real easy decision for me, I have cantis not disk brakes.

I'm also looking at a frame mounted alarm with a vibration sensor. I wish the frame locks had this option otherwise I am back to the alarm not being convenient.

I'm am still hoping for some real world experience with the different models.
 
Glad to see some other replies here.
Thanks for the pic Teklectic- I was considering that vs locked phases/steering lok and\or simple cable tethering thru frame.

Agree with others: conditions of stealing- tethered vs locked components.
Resolution for me: if you are gonna tether for major theft deterence, the normal on/off keyd switch would be the best minimalist deterent if it locks phases or a servo for brakes(s)/frame/steering lock when key off/out.
Not gonna mess with clunky steering or wheel locks taking up weight and space, that are independant of my normal on/off key switch.

R(eal)W(orld)E(experience) with thieves= none yet, but carrying a 357 or 9mm/ or mayb even some bear mace on hip is a good deterent too lol.
I like the vocab word 'covet' and you are totally rite on the subject? Means you are living rite if peopl covet the way you live, not your possesions imo too.
 
I thought about locking the bike electronically. I was thinking that engaging the ebrake might be simpler (turn on regen) but not as effective as shorting the phase wires. IMO it doesn't add enough initial deterrence. There would be no visual cue that says "Move along, nothing to steal here". The thief could be well into the process of trying to steal your bike by the time they realize that it is difficult to move which could easily lead to your bike just being moved to a new location and dumped.

With a physical lock, there is a visual cue (which would be minor in my case because of the location I am planning on using) as a deterrent. As soon as the thief tried to move the bike, they would hear and see that there is a lock going through the spokes and realize that this is not going to be easy.
 
Great thread.
all good simple advice, especially about securing your karma, first

I just make it unattractive, and more of a hassle than the bike next to it.
covers help. Just slows them down, again make it a hassle
make the their keep walking, the only perfect defense.

Disc locks inevitably get forgotten by the owner who rides off.
Conspicuity -> low, risk of damage-> great


Google: casey neistat bike stealing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wW6gGyfxn1U
 
Back
Top