free energy

[rf]

Think about it. If any of these "free energy" machines really worked, their technology would have been used for decades. Like solar, wind, geothermal, and hydroelectric. Those are the real sources of free energy.

I have thought about it and I don't buy your argument.

Many innovations turn out to be so obvious folks often wonder what took so long. In other cases supporting technology and other forces are required to make things work -- like nanotech-lithium batteries and high oil prices to make electric cars viable. A way to produce cheap hydrogen fuel fifty years ago would have been met with a yawn.

The Earth was flat until things fell into place. Folks didn't need a round Earth until they started voyaging to the other side.

The Laws of Thermodynamics were not given to us on stone tablets. Such tenets of science are meant to be up for reevaluation. Perhaps there's a way to explain these supposed new technologies in ways that doesn't violation those laws. Or maybe the laws need adjusting. If a magnet motor is stealing it's power from somewhere I don't care about, then it's still `free energy'.

Technology is moving faster than ever and still accelerating. Keeping an open mind is a good skill to learn. Saying: `Oh I hadn't thought of that', comes easier if it doesn't follow: `That's impossible.'

Richard

 

[Link]

I second that.

Third it.

The "inventors" of these things apparently don't get exactly how fundamental the law of conservation of energy is. It's not just like that one can have an exception. NOTHING works right without it. It's why you can even HAVE an equation to work out what energy goes where in a formula.

And the whole "just because no one's thought of it" arguement is weak. That "logic" could be be used to say that anything that hasn't been done isn't impossible.

 

[TylerDurden]

Meh... it's probably better to de-bunk this stuff here. Real people who know shit from shinola.

If we want to talk about free energy, let's talk about energy that is limitlessly abundant, and globally accessable.

When a solar module can generate more energy during it's lifetime, than it took to make the panel; then we got something.

Or if the modules can be made using energy from wind and waves, then we again have a net gain. The net gain can then be used to cascade the process making bigger gains.

Not much different than investing, manufacturing or real-estate... get the stuff to pay for itself and then generate profit over time.

Free.

 

[Mathurin]

[...]Not to insult the teenage girls[...]

Teenage girls on this forum, are more likely to be FBI agents, frocked up people, or trolls. lulz.

 

[rf]

Any physics graduate can demonstrate why any of those supposedly perpetual devices don't work.

And they still might be wrong.

We don't care if it's really perpetual or free or whatever. If it does something useful we'll take it. Screw scientific semantics.

If man was meant to fly, god would have given him a brain!

Richard

 

[Link]

If man was meant to fly, god would have given him a brain!

I can't make heads or tails of that without hearing what emphasis was used. :?

 

[Malcolm]

If man was meant to fly, god would have given him a brain

And that's another concept that belongs with faeries at the bottom of the garden!

 

[TylerDurden]

Since you bring up flight:

Those little winglets save about 5% of fuel... that's damn near free energy.

 

[rf]

If man was meant to fly, god would have given him a brain

And that's another concept that belongs with faeries at the bottom of the garden!

Wow.

More is possible than can be imagined. It's safer to be an optimist if you're trying to predict the future.

Richard

 

[Malcolm]

More is possible than can be imagined.

How do you know?

 

[lazarus2405]

He imagines so.

 

[truckerzero]

well i must agree on no free lunch and the law of consevation of energy but if it takes energy to make a electro magnetic field then magnets may contain energy just like gravity. and gravity is energy because with out gravity hydro electric could not work its just turning gravity into energy by using water my point is that magnets contain energy and ther must be a way to collect that enrgy but ill leave it up to the inventers to figure out how to do this because by brain is geting tired and thinkin hurts lol

 

[Toorbough ULL-Zeveigh]

[...]Not to insult the teenage girls[...]

Teenage girls on this forum, are more likely to be FBI agents, frocked up people, or trolls. lulz.

+1

 

[Toorbough ULL-Zeveigh]

The Earth was flat until things fell into place. Folks didn't need a round Earth until they started voyaging to the other side.

The people who already knew the earth was round & making those voyages were the ones who ridiculed others the most for bringing up the subject & publicly at least kept insisting the earth was flat in order to keep everyone else in the dark.

 

[Link]

gravity is energy because with out gravity hydro electric could not work its just turning gravity into energy by using water

Gravity isn't an energy source. It's more like a storage medium. The water is heated and evaporated by the sun, condenses into clouds, and then rains into lakes/rivers, where the energy given to it by the sun can be captured via a dam.

 

[lazarus2405]

my point is that magnets contain energy and there must be a way to collect that energy

Nope, they produce a field of force, not of energy. It takes energy in an electromagnet to maintain its magnetic field because of the resistance of the wire, which converts some of the current into heat. It doesn't take energy to create that electromagnetic field, just to overcome that loss of energy from resistance. In a superconductor, which has zero electrical resistance, you can make an electromagnet that doesn't require energy, just like a permanent magnet. Current in a superconductor can circulate forever, as long as the superconductor stays superconductive.

This is also a dream of superconductors as batteries. If you can send electricity circulating in a superconductor forever, or even for just a few days, you could use it to store energy. Charging it would be as simple as connecting electricity to it, which could be nearly instant and 100% efficient. Then you can achieve much higher energy densities than chemical batteries, much longer lifetimes, etc.

Of course, it's a dream still. Superconductivity (so far) only happens at extremely low temperatures. After decades of research, the best we've done is a class of ceramic superconductors that become superconductive if cooled by liquid nitrogen. (This is a huge improvement from where the field started, with titanium frozen to 2 Kelvin, about as cold as something can get.) The eventual goal is to discover a material that acts as a superconductor at room temperature.

Of course, the next best thing to that seems to be a supercapacitor. Instead of storing electricity as current, it stores charge. They are much closer to reality than room-temperature superconductors, but the energy densities achieved so far are something like 1/10th that of lithium batteries.

 

[truckerzero]

i love the super capacitor thing but didnt some guys frome mit yousing nano techology make the capacitors as good as lithium i heard the zapp electric car company is suppost to start yousing thim in their cars and make a 100 mile range 70 mph vehicle or is what i heard all hype

 

[OneEye]

You're probably referring to the EEstor cells - supposedly a breakthrough in capacitor technology. They have a lot of big-money believers, but there have been no public product demonstrations as yet. I think ZENN has rights to the technology for consumer cars. A big defense contractor (Lokheed?) hedged their bets and bought a license to the technology for defense and homeland security related uses.

Remains to be seen whether this is an investment scam or a real breakthrough.

 

[fechter]

i love the super capacitor thing but didnt some guys frome mit yousing nano techology make the capacitors as good as lithium i heard the zapp electric car company is suppost to start yousing thim in their cars and make a 100 mile range 70 mph vehicle or is what i heard all hype

It's all hype. Don't trust anything that comes from Zap!

 

[Toorbough ULL-Zeveigh]

Institutions like Scientific American, USPTO, Los Alamos Labs & NASA don't seem to turn their nose or feel embarassed to entertain the possibility of free energy & this is just some of what's already been released into the open.

http://xxx.lanl.gov/abs/hep-th/9901011
The Casimir Effect: Physical Manifestations of Zero Point Energy

http://www.sciamdigital.com/index.c...LEID_CHAR=5AFD2752-3CF3-4B31-BBC0-9E8222B65F3
Exploiting Zero-Point Energy; December 1997; Scientific American Magazine; by Yam; 4 Page(s)

The researchers here test machinery that, inventors assert, can extract energy from empty space.

Claims for perpetual-motion machines and other free-energy devices still persist, of course, even though they inevitably turn out to violate at least one law of thermodynamics. Energy in the vacuum, though, is very much real. According to modern physics, a vacuum isn¿t a pocket of nothingness. It churns with unseen activity even at absolute zero, the temperature defined as the point at which all molecular motion ceases.



How to extract 'free' electricity.
USPTO Patent# 5,590,031
A system is disclosed for converting high frequency zero point electromagnetic radiation energy to electrical energy. The system includes a pair of dielectric structures which are positioned proximal to each other and which receive incident zero point electromagnetic radiation. The volumetric sizes of the structures are selected so that they resonate at a frequency of the incident radiation. The volumetric sizes of the structures are also slightly different so that the secondary radiation emitted therefrom at resonance interfere with each other producing a beat frequency radiation which is at a much lower frequency than that of the incident radiation and which is amenable to conversion to electrical energy. An antenna receives the beat frequency radiation. The beat frequency radiation from the antenna is transmitted to a converter via a conductor or waveguide and converted to electrical energy having a desired voltage and waveform.

 

[Diosky]

I love it when people start asserting that something is impossible simply because a theory or law doesn't allow for it. There have been multitudes of laws/theories proved wrong/inaccurate throughout history yet people still seem to immediately bash any research or albeit even proof that goes against the grain. There are an innumerable amount of things we have yet to learn as human beings about the universe which is proven almost daily. I personally refuse to believe anything is impossible. Too often in my life I have seen verifiable facts/events/etc to show that anything is and can be possible with enough determination, diligence, intelligence and resource, not necessarily in that order. The day we can stop stepping in front of each other, raising our voices and proclaiming " THATS IMPOSSIBLE" and instead use our minds in a creative fashion (and sometimes just try it out) to see if it is, will be a beautiful day.......though I probably have a greater chance of winning the lottery than ever seeing that day manifest itself into reality.

 

[lazarus2405]

I love it when people start asserting that something is impossible simply because a theory or law doesn't allow for it.

And I hate when people blindly start asserting that "anything is possible" without any critical thought applied. The reason the scientific establishment accepts a law or theory is because it matches real evidence and experience. When one individual purports to have discovered and utilized a property of something as well-studied as magnets, and then cannot demonstrate of offer anything for scrutiny, it deserves a great deal of skepticism. When others cannot replicate one individual's results, it's unreasonable to expect others to believe.

Now, all of our scientific understanding is qualified. What is accepted as "truth" in a scientific context is based on multiple sets of evidence, and only accepted until a better or more complete explanation is available.

 

[Diosky]

I love it when people start asserting that something is impossible simply because a theory or law doesn't allow for it.

And I hate when people blindly start asserting that "anything is possible" without any critical thought applied. The reason the scientific establishment accepts a law or theory is because it matches real evidence and experience. When one individual purports to have discovered and utilized a property of something as well-studied as magnets, and then cannot demonstrate of offer anything for scrutiny, it deserves a great deal of skepticism. When others cannot replicate one individual's results, it's unreasonable to expect others to believe.

Now, all of our scientific understanding is qualified. What is accepted as "truth" in a scientific context is based on multiple sets of evidence, and only accepted until a better or more complete explanation is available.

Ok I just have to laugh at this. You go and state that what is considered truth is based on multiple sets of evidence correct?.....where/when was there every any evidence that the earth was flat, yet this was a scientific truth. What about the fact that the earth was also the center of the universe? In the last Century, that an atom was the smallest form of matter? That flight was impossible? How about that Dinosaurs couldn't be warm blooded? Gravity is a figment of our imaginations? .....All of these things were scientific truth at one time and many others like it. I am not saying that a monkey will ever fly out of a pigs butt, but what I am saying is that you should never think something to be impossible simply because it hasn't been done.

Yes I understand that most everyones comments to this were rooted in the scientific facts they either read somewhere or in rare circumstances tried themselves, but that does not mean everything has been tried. Over and over, time and time again, things that were once impossible are proven possible by someone or group of someones doing something that was not tried. Either it was a new process, new material was introduced, or simply a rearrangment of a few key parts and BOOM it works. Now I am not trying to say its as simple as *snap* and its done. Usually it takes hard work by brilliant and often scrutinized and heavily critisised people to accomplish it, but that does not mean its "impossible".

I will be one of the first to say I do not understand everything in this world nor do I think I ever will. I also know that I will never doubt the ability of a person or group of people to accomplish great things. At one time computers were the size of a small apartment and the thought of a computer small enough to fit in the palm of your hand was an impossible dream......glad my PSP didn't listen.

 

[Mark_A_W]

Nothing is impossible except violating the second law of thermodynamics, that that's what all these free energy things do...

I hate to sound like a closed minded bigot, but when it comes to the second law, there's no wiggle room.

This is not "flat earth" or "sound barrier", this is truly fundamental.

Hands up how many trained scientists/physicists/engineers believe in free energy?

 

[Drunkskunk]

I respect the religious beliefes of others. Thats what free energy is to these people. a Religion. A belief in some Supernatural force that will grant them free power if they only find the magic combination of magnetic stone placement. Sure. They've all seen these miricles, and believe in those who profess to have done these miricles, and if they can't seem to do it when there's a creditable whitness around, so what? They have faith in the almighty power of the unseen.


I respect their religious beliefs, So I won't try to explain that |2|+|2| must equil |4|, or that the second law of thermodynamics is immutable, or that there is no free lunch. I just let them alone. Their religion brings them happieness, and isn't hurting the mainsteam population. Let them have their religion.