Friction RC Commuter Build

[adrian_sm]

The throttle is a roller dial. Basically mount it under your bar and roll if with your index finger. First one I've come across that I can use easily on the drop bars.

Is it sprung loaded to return to zero throttle? I found mine annoying with no spring return as I would forget to turn it off when braking.

The adjustment seems to be an end stop when under power and I think you adjust the drive postion so its in contact with the wheel all the time even when not under power. I think the idea is to keep the contact light and have the one way bearing free wheel when not under power. Thats what it looks like to me anyway

I agree no point in the one way bearing otherwise.

 

[RayB]

@Adrian, no, not spring loaded to return to nil. That would be a good option I agree. There should be a PAS option soon, I am hoping to grab that controller when available.

I have to agree on the bearing. I think this is supposed to be engaged at all times. I will knock up a connector so I can atleast pull it off a little with the dropbar shifter. I don't use a front mech anyways so I have the cable route available to use.

Just took it out for a test ride. These RC setups do scream don't they Being my first friction drive I find it difficult to know if anything is slipping or if it is working properly. It goes, so I guess its working :wink:

 

[RayB]

Ok, just a quick video. I'll try to get a better one up after I give the outdoor commute a try.


[youtube]GdNiJ6V9Vco[/youtube]

 

[Kepler]

Thanks for posting the video Ray. The drive is a sweet design no doubt about it. It would be good to see a video under load i.e. Same as you just showed but then apply some back brake. It will give you an indicaton if you have any slip also.

It supprises me that the throttle is not spring return. I would have thought it would be a safety requirment on a commercial product.

It looks like the drive roller is smooth aluminium. There is no way it will drive if the tire gets damp if that's the case. Will be interesting to see what you find when you test it in a bit of damp weather.

 

[damonjackson_spl]

WOW, 27,000rpm sounds quite amazing!!

weight is the clincher to open up an entire new market to sell e-bike-tech to! Not just commuters travelling to work, I can see these kits being sold to the downhill community for shuttles!! I recently bought my Downhill bike from a mate, RRP was $6450 for a Giant DH Team, so spending another $1500+ on a shuttle kit could be an option, however the $2000+ price tag wont appeal even to them.


kepler/
it is 3/11 degress with rain in Seoul tomorrow, surely they havn't paid $150,000 in R&D/patents to not have a kit work in the wet!!!!
will be interesting to see how it works, maybe I am naive but SURELY the alum roller works prefectly in the wet!

awesome kit!

 

[recumpence]

FWIW, I use a simple thumb knob (dial) with no return spring on my recumbent. I like it for relatively low power setups. You can set it and leave it. But, I agree it may be a bit of a safety issue.

Matt

 

[RayB]

Well, took my first ride in this morning. Overall I am happy with the power/performance of the kit. It is of course very noticeable coming from a 36v 500w hub motor, but, I think it is what it says on the box. An assist. It pretty much tops out at about 30 km/h which is find for the hills and windy/lazy days.

The one thing I was worried about was any drag on the bike from it always being engaged. But, I didn't even notice any drag at all. Best of all, I hardly noticed the kit was there.

Good idea about applying the rear break. I will post another video with the motor under some load.

I have to agree with Matt, I am kind of liking the non sprung throttle as it kind of suits the way in which I use it. i.e. I glide up to lights anyways so no worry about turning off the motor on expected stops. In terms of safety, I'm not overly concerned as my disc brakes can easily outpower the motor and the controller seems to shut down the motor at a certain torque, so maybe its a non issue.

 

[damonjackson_spl]

Any videos on the road yet??

it looks like it is a 1:2 reduction inside the gearbox!

very impressed with the motor size, what dia is it?

 

[RayB]

Sure, will get them up over the weekend. Been swamped at work preparing for holidays

My experience so far with this kit has been positive. It sure does make a difference when you dont have to fight against a hub motor and lug around a 9kg battery, it's great having my bike back to being a bike.

I've done up to 40km so far on one charge with about 30 percent remaining. I didn't use the motor full time during that test but gave it a good run. Plus, I'm a large cyclist at 240lbs and 6'5. So, was quite chuffed to realize I could probably get about 45 to 50 km of part time assistance out of this thing.

So far about 350 km on the kit with no mechanical issues noticed. I will measure the diameter of the motor for you later tonight.

Thanks

 

[deVries]

surely they havn't paid $150,000 in R&D/patents to not have a kit work in the wet!!!!
will be interesting to see how it works, maybe I am naive but SURELY the alum roller works prefectly in the wet!

Did they post the patent numbers online, or is it mentioned elsewhere?

Thanks!

 

[adrian_sm]

surely they havn't paid $150,000 in R&D/patents to not have a kit work in the wet!!!!
will be interesting to see how it works, maybe I am naive but SURELY the alum roller works prefectly in the wet!

Did they post the patent numbers online, or is it mentioned elsewhere?

Thanks!

Miles found the patents. Here is the oringinal post:
http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=21186&p=310800&hilit=hidden+power#p310831

Here are the 3 patents they have: http://v3.espacenet.com/searchResults?PA=hidden+power&DB=EPODOC&submitted=true&locale=en_EP&ST=advanced&compact=false

- Adrian

 

[deVries]

surely they havn't paid $150,000 in R&D/patents to not have a kit work in the wet!!!!
will be interesting to see how it works, maybe I am naive but SURELY the alum roller works prefectly in the wet!

Did they post the patent numbers online, or is it mentioned elsewhere?

Thanks!

Miles found the patents. Here is the oringinal post:
http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=21186&p=310800&hilit=hidden+power#p310831

Here are the 3 patents they have: http://v3.espacenet.com/searchResults?PA=hidden+power&DB=EPODOC&submitted=true&locale=en_EP&ST=advanced&compact=false

- Adrian

Thanks Adrian... Sheesh, I'm sleep deprived, as I had seen that post from Miles too! (Weeks ago! Brain cells need some caffeine after rest to improve recall.) :?

I don't know if these are EU issued patents, but are being published with the original filing in Korean language? But the patent filing is still pending, not issued? Anyone know?

I'll edit or post a diagram that might be useful... got to try and resize it first.

 

[adrian_sm]

Thanks Adrian... Sheesh, I'm sleep deprived, as I had seen that post from Miles too! (Weeks ago! Brain cells need some caffeine after rest to improve recall.) :?

I don't know if these are EU issued patents, but are being published with the original filing in Korean language? But the patent filing is still pending, not issued? Anyone know?

No worries.

Why do you care? If you are just using their content for personal use, copy away. The pictures tell most of the story. If you are going to make a commercial product, then you need to know.

 

[deVries]

No worries.

Why do you care? If you are just using their content for personal use, copy away. The pictures tell most of the story. If you are going to make a commercial product, then you need to know.

I'm curious. :wink: Someone stated there were 3 patents. I like to learn from reading patents.

These are type "A" documents, so these are not patents... just applications for patent.

"When the patent is granted, it is published as a B document."

8)

 

[deVries]

I'll edit or post a diagram that might be useful... got to try and resize it first.

 

[LI-ghtcycle]

Very nice set-up! I'm also very interested to see how it performs in the wet.

 

[jbond]

Couple of things I don't understand on that diag. Apart from a severe shortage of bearings!
- What does the belt casing rotate on? Is it just the motor shaft?
- How does the one way clutch work? The diag seems to show the roller held on with a nut, but the shaft has a collar ridge and no threads.

 

[RayB]

Any videos on the road yet??

it looks like it is a 1:2 reduction inside the gearbox!

very impressed with the motor size, what dia is it?

The motor has about a 35mm diameter. Add another 3 or 4mm once you put the heatsink on.

 

[RayB]

Couple of things I don't understand on that diag. Apart from a severe shortage of bearings!
- What does the belt casing rotate on? Is it just the motor shaft?
- How does the one way clutch work? The diag seems to show the roller held on with a nut, but the shaft has a collar ridge and no threads.

The one way clutch bearing and roller are held on with a snap ring. Not sure what that nut is doing there in the diagram. At least that is how my version is. The belt casing is attached to the motor and the entire motor will rotate within the mount as one combined unit.

 

[RayB]

@jbond, here is a quick recording of a close up while adding some load to the motor via the disc brakes. You can see how the motor turns with the pulley enclosure.

[youtube]5rqun559ZKU[/youtube]

 

[D-Man]

How much money does hidden power cost?

 

[RayB]

How much money does hidden power cost?

If your in North America not sure if they have dealers there yet or not. Here is a link to the Korean online store: http://www.hiddenpowermall.co.kr/

 

[D-Man]

Oh well. I can't read that language.

 

[RayB]

It is listed on their website for about 1100 USD

 

[adrian_sm]

How is the drive going?

- Adrian