Gear Sensor for Bafang BBS02 Mid Drive *+ other mid-drives?*

[tomjasz]

I have one left unsent, if Radim would like to follow up, and you are willing.

 

[GearSensor.com]

Dear all,

I am very glad that there is a big interest in our product.
I have to admitt, that sometimes I dont have enough time to check the new posts here.

So, I would like to ask you, if you could contact me through our e-mail address (info@gearsensor.com).

Please be sure, that we will try to recognise where is the problem in the review mentioned above. We did a lot of testing and we also supplied GearSensor to e-bike manufacturing brands in Europe and there was no any problem. But I have to mention that in this case the GearSensor was fixed on e-bikes with completely new shifting systems (it could be the reason). Also I have to mention, that all of our testing were done in hilly terrain, because the GearSensor function is very important if you are riding uphill and you need to change the gear to lower.

Also I would like to mention, that we are currently negotiating with potential distributor. If it will be sucessful, then the distributor will be mentioned on your website soon.

Radim - GearSensor team

 

[teslanv]

I have one left unsent, if Radim would like to follow up, and you are willing.

I'd be willing to try your other sensor, Tom.

 

[tomjasz]

I have one left unsent, if Radim would like to follow up, and you are willing.

I'd be willing to try your other sensor, Tom.

Sent, I'll try your failed on my ride.

 

[GearSensor.com]

Dear all,

I am sorry for my late reply to this discussion, but I was very busy in last few days.

We have asked TESLANV to send us the GearSensor sample back to Czech Republic, so we will test it.
I would like to ask all of you, if you need anything, please contact me through the e-mail address (info@gearsensor.com), because I am not online here all the time.

Generally I would like to inform you that we are currently negotiating with potential distributor in US. I hope, that we will agree and start cooperation soon. So, please if anybody else would like to test the GearSensor, then I would like to ask you to wait until we will finish this negotiating, because after that it will be possible the GearSensor directly from the US from distributor.

As it was mentioned here, we are currently compatible with the Bafang and MPF drive and we are woeking on compatibility with another central drive units - European, but I cannot mention any details. We are also able to supply the GearSensor without connectors, it means only wires.

Radim - GearSensor

 

[tomjasz]

Radim,
It makes more sense to take the time to reply on the two most active e bike forums with worldwide exposure than individual emails. This is likley where your product will be made successful by builders and users of BBS0x's. One post here can save dozens of emails, and significant time. Or create a blog. Hopefully you don't end up in the hands of a USA BAFANG distributor known for secrecy.
Tom

 

[izeman]

Radim,
It makes more sense to take the time to reply on the two most active e bike forums with worldwide exposure than individual emails. This is likley where your product will be made successful by builders and users of BBS0x's. One post here can save dozens of emails, and significant time. Or create a blog. Hopefully you don't end up in the hands of a USA BAFANG distributor known for secrecy.
Tom

+1. that's why i sent radim the link as well. i also got an offer for a sensor, and even though i appreciate that they sell those to individuals (as it's made for wholesale) the price was way to high for me.
i would like to see some price reduced (free?) testing samples. i'm happy to test them heavily but i won't invest in a product, post my findings, find out that it may not work, promote it and pay the full price.

 

[tomjasz]

Radim sent me samples and I distributed them, initially at my own expense, the testers then paid my costs. He was also frustrated by the negative review which I found understandable but misguided. Nowhere on the website is ay disclaimer indicating there may be a problem with older derailleurs. He did speculate that older systems might be the problem. But for many of us here that may be a very big failure. I also got the sense that the price many are choking on might be on the low side. But that won't be confirmed until the USA distributor is in place. Hopefully the distributor won't be one of those secretive guys. That secrecy does nothing to promote BBS0x sales, IMO. Thankfully we can, for now, depend on the folks like Kepler, Teslanv, Aushiker, Samsavvas, and others to give of their time and experience to sort through the chaff and bull.

 

[teslanv]

Radim sent me samples and I distributed them, initially at my own expense, the testers then paid my costs. He was also frustrated by the negative review which I found understandable but misguided. Nowhere on the website is ay disclaimer indicating there may be a problem with older derailleurs. He did speculate that older systems might be the problem. But for many of us here that may be a very big failure. I also got the sense that the price many are choking on might be on the low side. But that won't be confirmed until the USA distributor is in place. Hopefully the distributor won't be one of those secretive guys. That secrecy does nothing to promote BBS0x sales, IMO. Thankfully we can, for now, depend on the folks like Kepler, Teslanv, Aushiker, Samsavvas, and others to give of their time and experience to sort through the chaff and bull.

I haven't seen any other review (positive OR negative) Has anyone else review or even tried this out?

 

[izeman]

as i said i would test it and write a meaningful and fair review if i get one to test. i think they should invest in some free samples to a small audience and book it under d&r or marketing.
no secrets and they will get more back then they invest.
the community waits for some device like that and free testers should be used imho.

 

[tomjasz]

Radim sent me samples and I distributed them, initially at my own expense, the testers then paid my costs. He was also frustrated by the negative review which I found understandable but misguided. Nowhere on the website is ay disclaimer indicating there may be a problem with older derailleurs. He did speculate that older systems might be the problem. But for many of us here that may be a very big failure. I also got the sense that the price many are choking on might be on the low side. But that won't be confirmed until the USA distributor is in place. Hopefully the distributor won't be one of those secretive guys. That secrecy does nothing to promote BBS0x sales, IMO. Thankfully we can, for now, depend on the folks like Kepler, Teslanv, Aushiker, Samsavvas, and others to give of their time and experience to sort through the chaff and bull.

I haven't seen any other review (positive OR negative) Has anyone else review or even tried this out?

One on the way to Ypedal. Since you were so willing I sent the second of three to you. Now I wish I had gotten it back to test before it went back...
Mine works very well on my new bike and is MUCH easier than coordinating with a light tap of the brake lever to shift. My review isn't really a very relevant test bed for this group since I'm a tame rider and on 99% flat ground. But on a BBS01 36v 350w, for a mellow city rider, it's a nice smooth shift and welcome accessory. Not sure I'd spend $30+, but the price seems to be a guarded secret for now.

 

[teslanv]

I tested the second unit. Things are getting interesting here...

Second unit had the same problem as the first, so I started experimenting:

1. Switched cables from the head unit. One cable goes the my front (Left) brake handle, and the other goes to the gearsensor. Switching did not affect the issue. It occasionally fails to restore motor power on either lead.

2. I tried tapping the brake lever when the gearsensor fails to restart the motor. This tripped the controller to restart the drive, which leads me to believe it's not a sensitivity issue with the gearsensor, but perhaps something wrong in the programming of the Bafang Drive.

3. I also stopped pedaling following an occurrence of the sensor not restarting the motor. Then upon resuming pedaling, the drive restarts. Again - seemingly a problem with the drive programming.

It's as if when the sensor kills the motor, the controller is not releasing the drive to restart until it gets a new signal. It doesn't happen every time, but it happens enough to be problematic.

So instead of answers, I have more questions.

Is it MY DRIVE that's the problem? Is it the fact that I have custom-programmed my drive? Is there some setting in the programming that isn't responding properly to the gearsensor's signal?

Perhaps my bike is not a good candidate for this sensor because of the custom programming I have performed???

I think more testing is called for to determine if this sensor works with a "stock" BBS02 kit, which I now have another local ES member I might be able to install one on.

What DOES suck for gearsensor, is that they had to find this out in a public forum like Endless-Sphere, instead of in their in-house testing phase. I can understand how they are frustrated by this review. It is not my intent to trash their product. It is my intention to help them either correct any flaws or bugs that may be present, or to inform subsequent purchasers that the product may not be suitable for their particular application. I do believe it is a worthy accessory to the BBS0x kits.

 

[tomjasz]

What DOES suck for gearsensor, is that they had to find this out in a public forum like Endless-Sphere, instead of in their in-house testing phase. I can understand how they are frustrated by this review. It is not my intent to trash their product. It is my intention to help them either correct any flaws or bugs that may be present, or to inform subsequent purchasers that the product may not be suitable for their particular application. I do believe it is a worthy accessory to the BBS0x kits.

I think you did a fair and reasonable review. I was surprised that the sensor wasn't, apparently, well tested for use on conversions. Radim should have realized that would be what happened here. I think some of the perceived negativity is more a matter of misunderstanding do to language differences. I'm still disappointed that he isn't addressing the issues here. I was clear on where I would find people to test. I also tried to get a unit to spinning magnets, but he didn't have a BBS0x, and gearsensor knew he would be an independent reviewer and would publish here and perhaps on electricbike. The units were distributed with full disclosure on this end.

 

[GearSensor.com]

Hi to all,

I am sorry for late reply, but I have had holiday.

I would like thanks to TESLANV that he tried to test another unit. Thank you for your comments from this second review, I have already sent your comments to our engineer who will read it and he will think about it. Approximately in 5 weeks starts the biggest e-bike show - Eurobike show. I have a meeting with Bafang there, so we will try to discuss this problem with them. But probably the problem is, that you have custom programmed drive unit. We tested the GearSensor only together with drive unit which has a SW directly from Bafang - it is normal in Europe. So, we think, that this is the problem. I would like to ask you, the adjustement of SW was done by you? And what exactly have you adjusted?

Thank you

 

[tomjasz]

It might be easier to ask the engineer which settings would affect the operation. Perhaps if the unit were reset to default settings and tested again?

Every unit sold in the USA, from dealers that I am aware of, and every motor sold by EM3ev, are custom programmed from factory settings.

I need to get on my test bike and ride it harder to see if I can replicate the problem. But until my cables are made up I can't confirm programmed settings.

T

 

[tomjasz]

Teslanv, Going back and reading Keplers post. Have you made the adjustments he spoke of or am I missing that bit?

T

 

[teslanv]

Yes, I checked the cable for proper routing, both on the original sensor as well as the replacement one, and continue to have issues with both. I now have a second BBS02 kit, but unfortunately, the connectors are the old style, so the gear sensor isn't compatible with it. Think I have to throw in the towel on this one, and send both sensors back to the manufacturer, for them to test.

 

[tahustvedt]

How does it work, exactly? If it works by sensing a certain pitch of cable movement, then different gear systems will give different results, because there are lots of different cable pulls between systems.

 

[teslanv]

As far as I can tell it just senses shift cable movement by means of a pulley and hall sensors. Any shift cable movement will effectively tell the controller the brake signal has been triggered.

 

[tomjasz]

Yes, I checked the cable for proper routing, both on the original sensor as well as the replacement one, and continue to have issues with both. I now have a second BBS02 kit, but unfortunately, the connectors are the old style, so the gear sensor isn't compatible with it. Think I have to throw in the towel on this one, and send both sensors back to the manufacturer, for them to test.

B, My clumsy, as usual, post was meant to refer to Keplers suggestion about the controller setting and it's effect. That seems to be what Radim is alluding to with the engineers and custom programing? No?

"The better way to interrupt power is by pulling down (or pulling up) the throttle output to around 1.15V. This kills both the PAS and throttle and then recovers power after the change with only a minor delay. Other good thing is that the minor delay is actually tunable with the Bafang software."

Is there a relationship here?

 

[teslanv]

I don't think the sensor is compatible with the throttle connector. This would require a redesign by the manufacturer.

 

[tomjasz]

DOH!

 

[tomjasz]

OK, my Gear sensor is now off after getting really odd and inconsistent responses from it. I tried it on my backup bike so It hasn't been used much. So far 3 tested units are frustrating failures. Still waiting for Ypedal to report...

 

[Ypedal]

Got the " Before " video done, am currently soldering the required extension to the GS unit as the stock wire was too short for this shift cable and will have test results today.

 

[tomjasz]

Dude your work is impressive!