First DIY conversion kit with cassette integrated torquesensor

[stancecoke]

Yose Power has a new offer for a complete conversion kit. I was looking forward to find something like that, since I've startet experimenting with this sensor in 2022. I had to write my own firmware to make my Lishui controller communicate with the sensor .
There is just one cable from the battery to the motor, no wires for a display or PAS are needed.
For people who want a display and lights, there is a A3Pro set also.
The controller could be a Bafang? The display connector seems to be the same as in the Bafang CAN system.

E-Bike Conversion Kit 36V 250W 28" Rear Cassette Motor Kit with 36V Bottle Battery Samsung Cell and Integrated Torque PAS Sensor Model A3

1. Technical DescriptionMotor Type: 36V 250W brushless geared rear cassette motorWheel Size: 28" (pre-built with double-wall rim & 12G black spokes)Compatibility: Works with 8/9/10-speed cassettesMax Speed: 25km/hMax Torque: 56N.mBrake Compatibility: V-brake and disc brakeFork Spacing: Requires...

yosepower.com

Unfortunately, Yose seems to use a motor with a straight-toothed gearbox, which would be too loud for me.

 

[neptronix]

hmm.. is the controller in the battery then?
( this would be a way better place than inside the motor )

 

[chuyskywalker]

hmm.. is the controller in the battery then?
( this would be a way better place than inside the motor )

My kid's ebike has a kit kind of like this, and yeah, the controller is hiding in that fat bottom of the "drink holder".

 

[amberwolf]

A quick image search on "water bottle battery controller" finds a few including this one EBS, IPS non-sensor controller 36V 15A in water bottle cage - fast commutating

which is also available from ohter places, but I figured I'd just link the one that can probbably be trusted.

 

[stancecoke]

My kid's ebike has a kit kind of like this, and yeah, the controller is hiding in that fat bottom of the "drink holder".

The "Geeko" system is available for quite a long time already, but it has no torquesensor.

Battery holder integrated controllers are available for many battery forms, but for the KClamber sensor, you need a controller, that has a second UART. That's nothing special in principle, many cheap scooter controllers have one UART for the Dashboard communication and a second for the BMS communication, but there was no plug and play solution for an Ebike system before, that uses the cassette integrated torque sensor in combination with a battery integrated controller, to get a lean, stealthy, easy to install conversion kit.
Grintech offers the cassette integrated sensor for its all axle motor also, but not this smart combination with the bottle battery.

regards
stancecoke

 

[Elinx]

.....
There is just one cable from the battery to the motor, no wires for a display or PAS are needed.
For people who want a display and lights, there is a A3Pro set also.
....

Only with the display Pro version you can choose assist levels.
Without display I don't see that possibility.

Is it certain that straight gears are used?
Or is this an assumption based on the image and torque value.
I ask, because they advertise with "low noise operation".

 

[stancecoke]

Is it certain that straight gears are used?

We will know it, when someone from us opens the motor and posts some photos

I just interpreted the photo on the Webshop.

Only with the display Pro version you can choose assist levels.
Without display I don't see that possibility.

With a torque sensor there is much less need to switch assist levels, as you can get the full range of power on every level. Of course it is nice to have the possibility to choose the amplifying factor of your human power.
Geeko has the buttons to switch the levels in the bottle cap.

 

[Elinx]

....
With a torque sensor there is much less need to switch assist levels,.......
...

Yes, but I won't be happy if the default assist level will be the highest.

On this battery holder, there are only 2 connectors visible on the bottom, so imho no option to switch levels

 

[stancecoke]

Yes, but I won't be happy

We could easily add a Bluetooth module to the display connector and use a smartphone app to switch the levels, show speed, power ....

The purple 6 pin plug on the battery bottom combines the light and the display wire, there is a 1 to 2 cable that splits to the "normal" green 5pin Higo display connector (used for UART in most cases) and the red 2 pin Higo for the headlight. The
connector on display side seems to be male, so it't not Bafang, but Kingmeter / Key-Display standard.
The display looks similar to the SW102, but is different. The "M" button is in the middle between the "up" and "down" button, not above of them. It could be the Bigstone M200.

 

[nickytheshhaft]

We could easily add a Bluetooth module to the display connector and use a smartphone app to switch the levels, show speed, power ....

The purple 6 pin plug on the battery bottom combines the light and the display wire, there is a 1 to 2 cable that splits to the "normal" green 5pin Higo display connector (used for UART in most cases) and the red 2 pin Higo for the headlight. The
connector on display side seems to be male, so it't not Bafang, but Kingmeter / Key-Display standard.
The display looks similar to the SW102, but is different. The "M" button is in the middle between the "up" and "down" button, not above of them. It could be the Bigstone M200.

View attachment 370567

View attachment 370566

Hi,

the description says it is the M200C so it is most likely this one

 

[stancecoke]

I was too curious and bought the A3Pro set. It holds a few surprises. The motor is a helical-toothed Aikema, so it is not very noisy, but far away from the announced 56Nm. The torque sensor is the expected cassette-integrated Kclamber. The controller is a Lishui.
The motor provides support at all levels up to 25 kph.
After a first test ride, I'm quite satisfied. Assist level 2 is OK for me, the higher levels are too strong already.

The only drawback is the rim, which is too small. A tire size 37-622 should fit according to this table, but it always slips off the rim when inflating. . I doubt that the sticker on the rim is correct, but I haven't measured it yet. A rim tape was not included either.
The Pro set contains the small plug to activate the system also, so you can use it without the display, if you want.

The set is really easy to install, no PAS, no throttle needed, I tested it on my old tinker bike.

 

[Elinx]

I was too curious and bought the A3Pro set. It holds a few surprises. ......

The only drawback is the rim, which is too small. ..... so you can use it without the display, if you want.

The set is really easy to install, no PAS, no throttle needed,.....

Thanks for the identification of the used components and your review.
If I look at Aikema's website. The AKM95RX.... is specified as 50Nm, so that isn't that "far away" of the specified 56Nm.
The strange rim size is a bit of a shame, especially since it refers to Etrto.

Just out of curiousity. Without display, which assist level is default in that case?

 

[qwerkus]

Interesting motors, thanks for the detailed description. I'm still not convinced by cassette TQ sensors: Over the last 5 Years I broke two eriders; one has an internal error which results in erratic torque values - I suspect a leaky sensor since the problem gets worse when it rains. The other as a broken wire, which sucks to repair because everything is glued/potted. Anyway in both cases I was happy to be able to quickly repair the bikes by swapping the BB with a new one. Not sure it would have been so easy with a cassette model... Also, those models do not work with IGH hub motors, which I really like!

 

[stancecoke]

Just out of curiousity. Without display, which assist level is default in that case?

I have not tried it yet. I have to find a tire that fits to the rim first.
Perhaps it's a "hookless" rim

 

[Elinx]

....
Perhaps it's a "hookless" rim

Looking at your picture of the rim you could be right.
In that case "tubeless only"
Maybe that's why there was no rimtape too.

If not, I know there are "tight fit" tires with tight wire bead, It depends of the brand.
Sometimes you read complains about these tires if some can't get the tire off, or back on, the rim

 

[stancecoke]

Looking at your picture of the rim you could be right.

I bought a new standard tire, now it works. Seems that my used tires that I tried yesterday are a little worn out.

Without display, which assist level is default in that case?

I tried it in a short test ride. With the little plug installed instead of the display, a quite high assist level is active. Too high for my taste, it's already close to pseudo-pedaling. But you can go slow speeds with this also, with very low force on the pedals.
I don't know, if you have to take the battery out to switch off the system, or if it goes sleeping after a while automatically and awakes, if the pedals are turning again. I've not tested that yet.

Here some more photos:

 

[neptronix]

Too fast to pedal? you just need a bigger front chainring

 

[stancecoke]

Too fast to pedal?

no, not to fast to pedal, the speed is limited to 25 kph in all levels due to the legal situation in europe, but with almost no power of the rider. The motor power is proportional to the riders effort. The assist level sets the amplifiying factor of the human power. If the factor is too high, it is no natural bicycle feeling any more. The motor gives full power with the slightest force on the pedal.

 

[Elinx]

.....

I tried it in a short test ride. ...... a quite high assist level is active. Too high for my taste, it's already close to pseudo-pedaling. ......
...

Too bad, but somewhat expected behavior. Thanks for testing.
In that case, the display option is imho the better choice.

 

[stancecoke]

In that case, the display option is imho the better choice.

It's not possible to find one assist characteristic that fits to all ride situations.
I've just built a new bike for commuting with a Kclamber cassette integrated sensor and I found, that my standard EBiCS setting has too much assistance at low speeds and too less at high speed for my daily commuting around Munich, where are no ascents at all.
So I added a speed dependent term to the calculation of the motor torque setpoint. Now I'm satisfied again (with the BB torque sensor I never corrected the bug, that the motor torque is directly calculated from the riders power, without the regarding the wheel rpm. This causes the speed dependend assistance accidently, but I like it ). This setup is nothing for riding hills. If you get slower because riding uphill, the power decreases, That's not what you want, when riding in hills
Therefore Bosch offers different "riding modes"

EBiCS_Firmware/Src/main.c at b2a17302af76ae00c76d2cf8f8b3f48aa582a43b · EBiCS/EBiCS_Firmware

Free FOC firmware for Lishui E-Bike-Controllers. Contribute to EBiCS/EBiCS_Firmware development by creating an account on GitHub.

github.com

 

[stancecoke]

I found no manual for the Bigstone M200C display, but the items in the setting menu seem to be quite the same as in the known Lishui compatible displays of KeyDisplay or Kingmeter. I have no idea, if the controller makes something from the settings, or if they are ignored to avoid illegal manipulations. Normally, Yose has a quite good documention, but for this new A3Pro set, it is still missing. The set is sold out meanwhile....
I've activated bluetooth in the display, but I found no new BT device with my smartphone. So maybe the GUI shows this option, but the BT hardware is not present in the display...

 

[stancecoke]

The
connector on display side seems to be male, so it't not Bafang, but Kingmeter / Key-Display standard.

I checked the communication between controller and display, it's the well known 5S UART protocol at 9600 BAUD

I'll sell the set now, as I have enough E-Bikes already

Display to controller:

3A 1A 53 07 02 40 01 8A 9E 32 7F 90 02 0D 0A
3A 1A 52 02 14 00 82 00 0D 0A
3A 1A 53 07 02 40 01 8A 9E 32 7F 90 02 0D 0A
3A 1A 52 02 14 00 82 00 0D 0A
3A 1A 53 07 02 40 01 8A 9E 32 7F 90 02 0D 0A
3A 1A 52 02 14 00 82 00 0D 0A
3A 1A 53 07 02 40 01 8A 9E 32 7F 90 02 0D 0A
3A 1A 52 02 14 00 82 00 0D 0A
3A 1A 53 07 02 40 01 8A 9E 32 7F 90 02 0D 0A
3A 1A 52 02 14 00 82 00 0D 0A
3A 1A 53 07 02 40 01 8A 9E 32 7F 90 02 0D 0A
3A 1A 52 02 14 00 82 00 0D 0A
3A 1A 52 02 14 00 82 00 0D 0A
3A 1A 52 02 14 00 82 00 0D 0A
3A 1A 52 02 14 00 82 00 0D 0A
3A 1A 52 02 14 00 82 00 0D 0A

Controller to display:

3A 1A 52 05 00 00 0D AC 00 2A 01 0D 0A
3A 1A 52 05 00 00 0D AC 00 2A 01 0D 0A
3A 1A 52 05 00 00 0D AC 00 2A 01 0D 0A
3A 1A 52 05 00 00 0D AC 00 2A 01 0D 0A

 

[Elinx]

I checked the communication between controller and display, it's the well known 5S UART protocol at 9600 BAUD

I'll sell the set now, as I have enough E-Bikes already .....

Thank you for willing to research this kit.
I have always appreciated your valuable way of researching.

So it looks that this AKM/Kclamber/Lishui combi from YosePower is the single option for now, but gives possibilities for other sellers.

 

[qwerkus]

Yose Power has a new offer for a complete conversion kit. I was looking forward to find something like that, since I've startet experimenting with this sensor in 2022. I had to write my own firmware to make my Lishui controller communicate with the sensor .
There is just one cable from the battery to the motor, no wires for a display or PAS are needed.
For people who want a display and lights, there is a A3Pro set also.
The controller could be a Bafang? The display connector seems to be the same as in the Bafang CAN system.

E-Bike Conversion Kit 36V 250W 28" Rear Cassette Motor Kit with 36V Bottle Battery Samsung Cell and Integrated Torque PAS Sensor Model A3

1. Technical DescriptionMotor Type: 36V 250W brushless geared rear cassette motorWheel Size: 28" (pre-built with double-wall rim & 12G black spokes)Compatibility: Works with 8/9/10-speed cassettesMax Speed: 25km/hMax Torque: 56N.mBrake Compatibility: V-brake and disc brakeFork Spacing: Requires...

yosepower.com

Unfortunately, Yose seems to use a motor with a straight-toothed gearbox, which would be too loud for me.

View attachment 370417

Hey Stancecoke, since you seem to be the only one around here having a closer look at the Kclamber cassette torque sensor, can you tell me if the freewheel inside the freehub is reversible ? I'd like to swap sides on a hub motor acting as mid drive. I know some freewheels are just pawl sitting inside a groove, and sometime that groove is even large enough to just flip the pawls in the other direction.

 

[stancecoke]

can you tell me if the freewheel inside the freehub is reversible

I never disassembled one so far, so I can't say. But as a middrive, this concept would not work anyway, as you would measure the torque from the motor, not from the rider...

regards
stancecoke