Genesis V2100 MTB build

[migueralliart]

Lol, i'm confused. You have the Aotema. edit:Thats sensorless. I also remember reading somewhere that you also have a yescomusa kit and that you are planning to run it with the Hua Tong? Did you end up getting two hubs?

This bike is running the Aotema sensorless kit. I bought a DH frame and a yescomusa kit and hua tong controller, but I just wanted to see if I could convert the hua tong controller to sensorless to swap it on different bikes

 

[cohberg]

ah. I've never run sensorless but i've heard that its pretty jerky at low/high speeds. Why neuter the yescomusa motor that does have halls?

 

[migueralliart]

ah. I've never run sensorless but i've heard that its pretty jerky at low/high speeds. Why neuter the yescomusa motor that does have halls?

I don't get that jerkiness from my kit but I bet @ 72V there will be a bit more of it. I just wanted to have a controller that is cheap and that I could swap on bikes quick, also @ 38 $ I can pretty much buy 2 and keep a spare. I agree with you I'd probably enjoy having the instant start up for mountain biking so... we'll see I am months away from finishing my second bike so I am focusing on this one for now. For the DH frame I'd go with good components and stuff.

 

[cohberg]

well since you seem pretty handy with a soldering iron you could probably make a hall sensor module that could be removed for the hua tong. That way you could run both the aotema and golden motor.

keep in mind your pack is going to need to be huge. Even if you run your 18650s at 2C you would need 8p at least, so a very under specified pack would be a 160 cell pack. I'd suggest investing in some high C lipo.

 

[migueralliart]

well since you seem pretty handy with a soldering iron you could probably make a hall sensor module that could be removed for the hua tong. That way you could run both the aotema and golden motor.

keep in mind your pack is going to need to be huge. Even if you run your 18650s at 2C you would need 8p at least, so a very under specified pack would be a 160 cell pack. I'd suggest investing in some high C lipo.

yeah I can probably do that. I am not considering running 72V on 18650 cells , that will require a LOT of cells like you said. I'd probably use either the 4s hardcase lipo or 5spacks.

 

[migueralliart]

Ok ran the bike for a while without charging. I managed to do 12.77 miles and the min resting voltage of all the cells was 3.73V . Plugged the charger in and charged to full 4.18V (balanced) using 7453 mah, so does this mean I was doing .58 Ah /mile which is not bad but then I was doing most of the heavy work myself. I pedaled each and every start and cruised until I got to a stop light.

 

[migueralliart]

Couple of pics of the bike with more light, upgraded the front disc and used andersons to make a battery harness that connects my 2 packs in series and without it I charge with a 2 - 5s parallel setup which is easy to connect to the charger, will post more pics of the setup tonight. Also ordered some braided split sleeving which will make the bike so much cleaner.

 

[cohberg]

any fork flex with the larger (180mm?) disk?

 

[migueralliart]

any fork flex with the larger (180mm?) disk?

Not at all... I gotta say having the heavy DD rear motor helps with the lifting. I had to break in the pads, after that the brakes are really good. I try not to overdo the front while pressing the back hard. Are you still running the oem rear brakes?

BTW the disc is 203mm

 

[cohberg]

excellent i'm going to get some 203 rotors. the 160 is fine and i can do stoppies with them but they are pretty worn from abuse.

the rear brake is disconnected currently: i'm using that brake handle for regen. if you want to run disks on the rear look into farfle's swing arm or just use the gmc topkick as a template and weld your own IS mounts.

 

[migueralliart]

excellent i'm going to get some 203 rotors. the 160 is fine and i can do stoppies with them but they are pretty worn from abuse.

the rear brake is disconnected currently: i'm using that brake handle for regen. if you want to run disks on the rear look into farfle's swing arm or just use the gmc topkick as a template and weld your own IS mounts.

yeah that rear arm is a bit expensive for me.... considering the bike costs like 150$ I think the rear brakes are good for now... the fronts are awesome!!

On a side note I want to combine this pack with a small Li-po pack in parallel to help with the discharge. I asked on another thread but I have not gotten a sure answer on this. The packs are

1 36V Li-ion 14Ah pack
1 36V Li-PO 3Ah Pack (2-5s packs) or perhaps 5Ah still trying to decide

The question is do I need diodes for two packs connected in parallel with this configuration?

 

[cohberg]

yeah that rear arm is a bit expensive for me.... considering the bike costs like 150$ I think the rear brakes are good for now... the fronts are awesome!!

same thought

The question is do I need diodes for two packs connected in parallel with this configuration?

I would, just because the discharge curves are different. Get a couple schottky diodes, they're a bit faster and run cooler


Why the addition of lipo? More juice? Its going to be a nightmare with the different cell sizes, different discharge rates and balancing the entire pack.

You mentioned building a dh ebike. Get the batteries for that now and use them on your current build and swap it over when it comes time. These will deliver 150A burst 100A continuously, no need to worry about the max c rate + you can parallel them with no issues of characteristic mismatches

 

[migueralliart]

Well the problem with getting those hardcase packs is that it'll get me to 12S and not 10S which is my current config... the main reason I want to add lipo is that I've been running the bike and monitoring what happens with the cells and cause these cells are 18650 they sag. I can still get a bit more than 20 miles with my current battery and moderate pedalling but by adding the small lipo pack I can smooth the sag on the li-io pack and therefore have even MORE range. This is my commuter bike after all. The DH build is gonna be my recreational bike... still haven't received the damn kit... got my 72 Hua tong controller ready to rock.!

The topeak bag I have on the rack is Empty I am not carrying anything so far. I think having a small lipo pack in there won't affect and just help the current pack. To charge I already have a plug and play solution for the main pack that I can have at the office and at home. The lipo added will be handled with my icharger 3010b.

What amperage/power rating do I use to search for a schottky diode on digikey? If you have any suggestions let me know. SO far thanks for sharing them with me, its good to have a common frame and share experiences.

 

[cohberg]

12s should be fine. Most controller that are 36V need to be rated for 42V hot, which means that they usually use 63V caps and 75V fets. Crack your controller open or look around for one that is similar to check. And if it comes down to it you could just cut a 4s pack into 2 2s packs. Easy stuff if you built your own 18650 pack. Just heat up the tabs and pull the cells free.

I dunno the only reason i push for the lipos is because i went through the exact same thing lol. I had a 24s6p pack that was a bitch to construct and balance + it sagged like crazy. My turnigy lipo 24s1p pack sags less now. Your call, just don't be anchored down by the 18650, its only useful for low amp stuff unless massively paralleled like the tesla (someting like 30p)

I personally used these for my really old 36V pack (dewalt A123) so it might not be quite what you need, but look around digkey lots of good stuff there

 

[cohberg]

Oh and jay was right, the rear is aluminum. Not so much a problem for you because of the amps you're pulling and lack of regen. I have a lot of miles on mine and so far its fine but aluminum fatigue is a concern. Might have to fab some torque arms

 

[migueralliart]

Got the kenda k838 tires for both front and rear. Also purchased avenir thorn resistant tubes, rear v brakes cool stop mtb shoes, rear fender, 1200 lumen bike LED light and everything is installed. The lbs did a bit of truing on the rear wheel for 15$. Now at 25mph there is no sense of wobbling AT ALL.

I gotta say these kenda tires are awesome , I'm glad I bough them. The feel is knight and day difference from the older tires.

BTW I think amazon does a really stupid job at choosing their box sizes I mean they sent these tires in individual boxes when they could've send them in one box.

PARTS TO UPGRADE NEXT,

BOTTOM BRACKET and PEDALS ORDERED....

NExt thing is to add a high discharge small pack to help the range a bit , probably two 5S lipos , still unsure on how to add them will probably do it with a momentary switch and a solidstate relay for those momentary uses but we'll see.

Comparison with the old cheap tires

 

[Rollodo]

migueralliart, sorry, a bit of a noob question here - I know sometimes I have vision problems. In your original post you mentioned you're running 10S6P, and I can see the 6P, but the 10S? How do you use those connectors again?

 

[migueralliart]

migueralliart, sorry, a bit of a noob question here - I know sometimes I have vision problems. In your original post you mentioned you're running 10S6P, and I can see the 6P, but the 10S? How do you use those connectors again?

10S is just the amount of cells in Serial. 6P is how many in parallel. So for example in the first post you see some of the bricks made of parallel cells. You notice there are 6 cells in each one, and then these are connected series. What I ended up doing is building 2 5S packs with its own 5S connector. That way I can use one of the cheap chargers like the imax B6 and charge both packs in parallel along with their balance connectors. I made a short plug that goes into the controller that takes both 5S packs and puts them in series config plug and play and the andersons are setup in a way you CAN't plug it backwards. Also by having 2 5S balance connectors I can put a lipo alarm in each one (while the pack is in series) and monitor each cell voltage. I currently have it setup to 3,5V so if ANY cell brick gets to 3.5V the alarm will sound (really loud)


Also the balance connectors I ordered from ebay. If you search A123 balance 5S or 6S there is a seller called vocanlo I believe. He ships high amperage balance connectors fast from china.

 

[Rollodo]

10S is just the amount of cells in Serial. 6P is how many in parallel. So for example in the first post you see some of the bricks made of parallel cells. You notice there are 6 cells in each one, and then these are connected series. What I ended up doing is building 2 5S packs with its own 5S connector. That way I can use one of the cheap chargers like the imax B6 and charge both packs in parallel along with their balance connectors. I made a short plug that goes into the controller that takes both 5S packs and puts them in series config plug and play and the andersons are setup in a way you CAN't plug it backwards. Also by having 2 5S balance connectors I can put a lipo alarm in each one (while the pack is in series) and monitor each cell voltage. I currently have it setup to 3,5V so if ANY cell brick gets to 3.5V the alarm will sound (really loud)

Also the balance connectors I ordered from ebay. If you search A123 balance 5S or 6S there is a seller called vocanlo I believe. He ships high amperage balance connectors fast from china.

I see . I really want to understand this. Is there more material I could read on these connectors, balance connectors, controller re-configurations, and Anderson's? What I want to do for my setup may involve dealing with these connectors and such - heavily - so I figure I'd like more info on their theory and practical use. I'm used to parallel and series as they teach in schools - anything more or less advanced makes me scratch my head, anything more than scratching makes it spin. Anything more than spinning - well, look at overcharged LiPo's.

 

[migueralliart]

I see . I really want to understand this. Is there more material I could read on these connectors, balance connectors, controller re-configurations, and Anderson's? What I want to do for my setup may involve dealing with these connectors and such - heavily - so I figure I'd like more info on their theory and practical use. I'm used to parallel and series as they teach in schools - anything more or less advanced makes me scratch my head, anything more than scratching makes it spin. Anything more than spinning - well, look at overcharged LiPo's.

I learned a lot from this website about balance connectors and such.
http://scriptasylum.com/rc_speed/lipo.html

I am with you, I understand that lipo is the best bang for the buck when it comes to raw power but I don't wanna mess up something and setup a fire specially since I live in an apartment. The best way for me to understand about balancing and stuff is to build a simple 3S battery and go from there. I ended up using the battery for a bike headlight anyway but once you do a simple 3S battery 5S is a breeze. If you don't really want to mess up something and you don't want crazy speeds or amps you could go with a small A123 pack and get more once you need more range. If you have questions pm me or any of the forum members, we'll help you out. Except the pedantic ones that don't really care what you think or know.

 

[Rollodo]

I learned a lot from this website about balance connectors and such.
http://scriptasylum.com/rc_speed/lipo.html

I am with you, I understand that lipo is the best bang for the buck when it comes to raw power but I don't wanna mess up something and setup a fire specially since I live in an apartment. The best way for me to understand about balancing and stuff is to build a simple 3S battery and go from there. I ended up using the battery for a bike headlight anyway but once you do a simple 3S battery 5S is a breeze. If you don't really want to mess up something and you don't want crazy speeds or amps you could go with a small A123 pack and get more once you need more range. If you have questions pm me or any of the forum members, we'll help you out. Except the pedantic ones that don't really care what you think or know.

Although with an overcharged LiPo I was actually referring to my own head being overwhelmed with information and school homework, I do thank you for the link, I will read that page and any other relevant material I come across.

 

[boppinbob]

The rear is steel. Another member named cohberg has this frame with a much more powerful setup without torque arms with no problems so far.

I'll try to confirm this later, right now for the power I'm putting it is not a concern.

I have a v2100 build and I can confirm abso-freekin-lutley that it is soft aluminum. I took a dremel tool to deepen the dropouts so the axle of the motor would sit at the bottom expecting some hard grinding but it cut though that aluminum like butter.
I would get some torque arms on them before the axle twists in the dropouts or breaks them off. You may not need DoctorBasses torque arms at 36v or even 48v but you need some kind of torque arm. Cheap insurance.

 

[migueralliart]

I already contacted the doc for a pair but not for this bike. This bike doesnt have regen and the controller pulls max 18 amps sensorless which makes for soft starts. This build is not for torque but to be efficient at cruising. It just picks up speed very linearly until it hits top speed.

 

[maydaverave]

I love those tires. I have them on an electric bike and a 26" single speed bike I ride like a bmx bike lots of curb hopping and stair jumping. I have put about a thousand miles on both with these tires and no problems so far. They roll great at 65psi. I wouldn't trust that rear swingarm without a torque arm though.

 

[maydaverave]

Looks like a great bike for the money.