Gonna get laid off... opportunities in electric land?

[fitek]

The startup I helped create and where I've spent nearly the entirety of my professional career will likely not survive Q1 2009. Our customers are succumbing to the downturn and we've cut back to minimal hours just to minimize the burn rate.

I am pretty sure I can go get another job in healthcare IT, but I'm not very much looking forward to it at the moment. It was tough being on the cutting edge of healthcare technology in an industry that doesn't want to embrace the inevitable (and that probably needs to be held to the fire like the US auto industry). For now I'm much more passionate about electric bikes and want to go on to building new and exciting things.

I've had a decent amount of interest in my home made bikes even at the Maker Faire last May (when I'd only been at this ebike thing for half a year), more than I expected for sure. And everyone that rides it seems to love the latest tandem serial hybrid, even if it's still pretty rough right now. I've been asked by a few people to build their burning man vehicles and get into the artsy realm. But my bikes sure are homely looking right now...

Can you really pay the bills by welding bikes together in your garage? With the cost of a decent battery pack being half a grand and all the other bits at least that much, it seems you'd need to charge $2k for a bike to make it work. With all the Chinese bikes out there costing a fraction of that it seems like the only way you could ever charge that is to hit a niche the Chinese don't. Good luck selling enough of the things when the market is small. I'm not sure I really have an interest in selling Chinese ebikes like every other ebike store out there.

No doubt there are also many gaps in what's available for DIY ebike builders, but these are mostly items of lesser value that you'd have to crank out somehow to make a living.

There's always the possibility of joining someone else's endeavour too. Living in the SF Bay Area I'm pretty well geographically situated and there are probably a hundred little companies in existence that I am not even aware of who could use someone with a software and engineering background and hands on experience with EVs. I've already been at the stage of a company when it's just a handful of guys with a wild idea they are looking to sell and I've taken the product to relative maturity from there. I know I can do it again. Just find me some good salesmen this time

Well, thanks for reading my rambling. Any thoughts? I've got plenty of free time now to listen hehe.

 

[gogo]

Ya, things are tough everywhere and it looks like things will keep getting worse. I dodged a 25% layoff this week and feel like I'm living on borrowed time.

I'm embracing the multiple-revenue-stream plan. If I were to include ebikes, I'd start small and part-time in my garage and see if I could expand. I'd only commit more time and resources after getting some cash flow from it.

It may be possible to inform businesses about the new $20/month tax benefit for employees who bike to work. Then, with your foot in the door, offer information about legal ebikes and promote your ebike services.

 

[fechter]

Being near the forefront of healthcare IT, I can say that it does suck. It also does pay the bills.

The e-bike business has never been a wildly successful venture for anyone that I know. This could change someday.

You might check with Electric Motorsport or Thunderstruck Motors (long commutes). They seem to be the only ones that have stayed in business for any length of time.

Good Luck...

 

[Jay64]

If I were you I would go check out all of the existing companies that are just coming big. Go check out the website for Tesla, zero, etc. A lot of them have an employment link on the bottom.

 

[safe]

"Follow the Money"

...watch for where the government throws money around. Government will be the bubble to profit from this time around. First it was dot.coms, then housing, now government subsidies.

It might be six months before the "pork" gets out there... but it does appear to be on the way.

The government is the only one with unlimited resources right now because they can just push the debt onto future generations. To get rid of the debt we will just have to accept higher inflation for a decade or two some time in the future.

For now the money will be in government subsidies... so just read the reports about who gets the "pork" and who doesn't.

Follow the smell of pork... :lol:

 

[pwbset]

Were I a betting man I'd focus my efforts on the core staples of necessity like food, clothing and shelter. I'm giving serious thought to growing a LOT more hops this season and getting a good couple of beer styles going. People will always find money or trade goods for booze. Booze is a "food" right? :wink: :|

 

[johnrobholmes]

I am also thinking of brewing more this season. What do people do in downtimes? Watch movies and get f-d up.

 

[fitek]

Oh believe me, I have 15 gallons of homebrew sitting around, and I'm drinking some of it right now Nothing goes better with DIY electric vehicles than a big bottle of DIY beer. I also grew hops this year (and the year before that, but they all died). They didn't produce anything yet though. I hear they'll come back next year with a vengeance.

I spent today searching the jobs sections of several companies like Tesla and Better Place and reading up on them. Will continue tomorrow.

 

[MitchJi]

Hi,

I think the Bay Area could support a company similar to a ebikes.ca (http://www.ebikes.ca/index.shtml) I think their sales are mostly online but I think they have a retail location. I'd use a little higher quality components than Xlyte. You might consider talking to some existing Bike Store owners about Ebikes and see if they want to branch into Ebikes as a partnership. Or rent some space in a bike store, or set up a small shop. I think a good marketing tool in the Valley would be free workshops on Ebike construction similar to those given by Ebikes.ca. I bet you can find companies in the Valley who would let you give workshops to employees during their lunch hours on company premises. His problems with Eberhard and recent price increases for customers who had locked in their options validate my concerns (IMO).


I'd have to be pretty desperate or get an incredible offer to consider working for or purchasing a Tesla. When the founder of Paypal took over I immediately thought I'd never purchase an expensive car from that company.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=tesla+eberhard+musk&btnG=Google+Search&aq=f&oq=

In addition to his problems with Eberhard:
http://www.autobloggreen.com/2009/0...ners-not-happy-about-price-increases-on-lock/

Prospective Tesla owners not happy about price increases on locked in cars

Along with the news that Tesla Motors is offering an array of new high-margin optional extras for the Roadster comes news that the company is looking at other means of increasing revenues. All of this comes with an eye toward reaching a cash flow positive position by the middle of 2009 as promised by CEO Elon Musk. Unfortunately, it appears that some of that profit is coming on the backs of early adopters. When you put down a deposit on a car two years before it hits the streets, it shouldn't come as surprise that the specs would change somewhat before it arrives. But when the actual build time comes close, customers have to lock in the options they want on the car such as colors, interior finish, etc. about three months ahead to give the company time to line up special parts.

It turns out that customers who already locked in orders recently have been unlocked and asked to reselect options. Some of the previously selected options are now higher priced and other previously standard features are now extra cost options. Among those are the wheels that we've seen on every Roadster up until now. They have been replaced by a new, presumably less expensive design with the original design now fetching an extra $3,000. Audio system upgrades are now also more expensive. Perhaps most annoying is that the cable that allows the car to be plugged into the high power home charger for a three-hour charge has become a pricey add-on. Until now, these have been included in the cars. Drivers who want three-hour charges going forward will have to fork over an extra $3,000 to get this hefty extension cord.

http://www.autobloggreen.com/2009/0...ry-list-of-new-options-12k-prepaid-battery-r/

One is a $5,000 extended warranty that covers everything but the battery for an extra two years or 24,000 miles. Considering that the mechanical simplicity of electric drive systems is considered one of the big selling points of EVs, one might be surprised that the original warranty on a Roadster is only two years to begin with. An extra two years of coverage for five grand seems rather steep.

 

[MitchJi]

http://www.treehugger.com/files/2009/01/careers-renewable-energy.php

Careers in Renewable Energy and Clean Tech: Advice from the Experts

 

[fitek]

Well the hammer came down today. Shutdown is tomorrow. Blowing what's left on beer.

Thanks everyone for your input. I think I'm going to try it all. Apply for full time positions, part time, and throw some things on craigslist and see what sticks. I will also contact local niche bike shops and see how things are working out for them. It will likely take a while to spin a "real" job up anyway so I might as well have something to do on the side. I suppose if there is any advice I try to give to myself, it's to avoid half measures. Pick a direction and... Let's go!

 

[pwbset]

Your positive attitude will go a long way! It's all too easy to get down in this economy. Best of luck to you!

 

[Patriot]

A123 will be building a new battery plant in Michigan very soon. Maybe you can contact them, and get into the building of the plant and stay on from the ground up. people who do that, and are dedicated, tend to end up as management, and make major bucks.

 

[MitchJi]

Good Luck!

 

[MitchJi]

Hi,

Just in case you missed it and are qualified:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=8359

Howdy Everybody,

I'm the Production Manager for Zero Motorcycles and we are in dire need of some qualified battery technicians. Must be familiar with all common chemistries, BMS/charging systems, and assembly of large packs. We are rapidly expanding and working on a number of cool projects and I need people to help build, prototype, and diagnose/fix battery packs.

If a 2kW/h pack pushing 20kW excites you give me a shout.

Gabriel DeVault
Production Manager
Zero Motorcycles
http://www.zeromotorcycles.com
gabe@zeromotorcycles.com
1 Victor Square
Scotts Valley, CA 95066

 

[mvadventure]

As an indefatigable optimist I almost envy you your position. Mind I said “almost” . It’s difficult for me to imagine the horror of bills coming in and no money to pay them but on the other hand they can provide a great incentive to come up with something.

Switching careers means a lot of the past networking has lost relevance but not necessarily all. It’s the imagination that put you into a position of leadership to start with which will prove the most valuable. Capitalizing on that imagination and leadership will be the key to future success regardless of the path you choose.

I have no idea if the folks at Optibike make a decent living building their custom ebikes but they can provide a model. They market on a shoestring, host a decent website and use ambassadors to demo their product.

It’s time to get the old yellow legal pad and a few #2’s out and start brainstorming. One of the things you’ve already learned is that most people suffer closed minds. All it takes is to visit a LBC and ask about ebikes. Once you decide on a product to develop you’ll wind up spending time on development and generating ideas on how to overcome the LBC attitude often held by the general public.

But, if you get a design that will work in San Francisco think about how that product will work on college campuses all over the country. I recently spent a month in Athens, GA. This is a town blessed with hills around the campus of the University of Georgia. While I did not have my bike with me I grew quit curious as to how it would perform on those hills and how they would effect range. (5304 w/48 V 20 AH LifePO4)

There is a market, a big giant untapped market out there serviced by a lot of folks with their head up their butt unwilling or unable to develop the various niches necessary to fill it.

Good luck, best wishes and above all, make money and have a good time doing it. Make no apologies for making a profit.

Mike

 

[safe]

Gabriel DeVault
Production Manager
Zero Motorcycles
http://www.zeromotorcycles.com
gabe@zeromotorcycles.com
1 Victor Square
Scotts Valley, CA 95066

Surfing heaven...

 

[fitek]

Well after attending NAHBS it became quite clear that it would be a very trying experience to start making handmade bikes full time. The fastest anyone went full time was about 1-2 years and most took 3-5 years. SOOO, having no interest in going poor, I've started applying to jobs half the day and working on bike stuff the other half with the intention of 1) not losing my mind scouring job boards 2) and making good progress while I have time.

First up: a home made frame jig (for recumbents of course). I've already got it halfway done and, for added kicks, semi-smashed my right hand by knocking my drill press over. Having achieved my historical injury to project ratio, I now lack the fear for my safety that slowed my progress and hope to have something to show later this week (j/k of course-- I'll put the safety equipment back on).

 

[gogo]

Are you thinking of specializing in ebike creations?

 

[fitek]

Specialization would be either recumbents or ebikes or both. There are already enough human only powered upright bikes out there that I wouldn't be adding any value. I'd probably get bored. Most ebikes seem to suck though (either cheapo Walmart class or messy DIY builds-- I know many people on this board have really slick bikes but there's not that many of us). I've also got a thing for recumbents, electrically powered or not that I can't seem to shake.

 

[MitchJi]

Hi,

Something that might be a good business oportunity and would be great to do would be to either distribute these in North America or produce something similar:
http://www.teamhybrid.co.uk/

We produce a range of hand cycles, both manual and powered that are designed to be used with an existing wheel chair using a lightweight docking mechanism.

http://www.teamhybrid.co.uk/viper.htm

The VIPER offers performance on the flat and is powerful enough to ride the hills with ease.

* Aircraft grade aluminium
* State of the art electronics
* Ni-MH batteries
* Microprocessor controlled charger
* Heavy duty cables and connectors
* V brakes
* 20” wheel for fast acceleration

http://www.teamhybrid.co.uk/quadviper.htm
http://www.teamhybrid.co.uk/vipertagaxle.htm

 

[TylerDurden]

A very good design basis for a crank-forward ebike might be Dee-Jay's Giant Revive... it seems to combine elements of scooter and recumbent in a manner that both cyclists and metropolitans can dig.

 

[Dee Jay]

A very good design basis for a crank-forward ebike might be Dee-Jay's Giant Revive... it seems to combine elements of scooter and recumbent in a manner that both cyclists and metropolitans can dig.

Cheer's TD !

It's the low 20" wheels and the step-through frame that gives it the scooter element and the backrest and pedal forward gives it the semi recumbent element.

It's been dark, cold and wet in the past several weeks but was sunny and bright today so I cleaned her up and took pics.

The Revive is indeed a city dweller's bike.

To gain more speed with the 408 I wanted to convert the rear wheel to 26" with an xtracycle kit (leave the front 20") Unfortunately I won't be able to fit it in our elevator.. so I plan to fab a folding extension on the swing arm. Will make a photoshop illustration soon.

Like so:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3035&p=140695#p140695

J