Got wisdom for 10,000 mile ride?

epictrip said:
amberwolf:
-I will strongly consider your lighting ideas. Maybe also an Arizona Whip http://www.arizonawhips.com
-I will also have my SAG wagon tailing me in more dangerous areas, so that’ll help. But yes, the more visible the better!
-And a horn, too.
-I have a SMV sign on the back of my SAG and a sign that reads “CAUTION WHEELCHAIR BIKE AHEAD”
-Will moped tires fit on a 20” bicycle rim?
-Great ideas on the rims! I’ll look into it!
-I’m in Tucson, first stop is Phoenix!

I'd definitely like to meet up with you on your way thru. If you can say in advance about when that will be, I can make sure I have the day off from work to theoretically be available. (otherwise I can't be sure I won't have to be at work when you'd be coming thru, and that would suck). You can reach me here on the forum publicly or via PM, or via email (if you PM me for it).


I've seen those whips on the web before, but never seen one in person. I'm sure it will help on the road--just remmeber that it will also affect your aero some, adding to your cross section--and whips and flags and stuff that stick up high can really suck in high crosswinds like we get during desert storms. :(


Tires...it depends. There is a thread in the Reference section about them that lists and links to stuff like that. I'm still on the lookout myself for a local source for some tires like that (I haven't tried really hard yet, just casually keeping an eye out while riding). AFAIK there's a Pirelli tire that will fit many 20" rims (remember not all rims are exactly the same so some work and some don't). The ex-Zero rims I have from Ypedal definitely ought to work with at least some of them, cuz they *were* used with them on the Zeros. ;)

But what I'd do if I could (in your case or mine) is use motorcycle or moped *rims* as well as tires, cuz the rims are stronger and can be used with thicker spokes and still get the right tension, and make the wheel much more bulletproof than otherwise, ifyou're going to put heavy loads on it or put it thru "hell" on bad roads at speed (or both, like I sometimes have to). ;) There's arguments for not doing it this wya, too, such as weight overall, and unsprung weight for suspended wheels (like yours), affecting how well your suspension can actually do it's job. So you have to make a call on that one.



The signs on the SAG are good, but remember that they may not bother to *read* them, or it might not sink in even if they do.

I've seen trucks hauling those half-houses (mobile homes?) where they are filling a lane and a half with it, with the gigantic "wide load" sign across the whole back and sometimes side of the thing, and *still* seen cars and trucks just drive right up to the back end of it on the half-lane side before they suddenly notice it's in their way and watch them swerve farther left (or right) to avoid hitting it, literally at the last second, cuz they weren't really paying attention.

Many drivers only pay attention to the fact that there is something large in front of htem that they cant' plow over or thru without hurting their vehicle, and not to anything it actually is telling them...so the "bigger" your own trike "looks", the more it stands out from the road and background, the more likely they are to avoid it without thinking about it. If they have to think about avoiding it, they might not do that, as it's common for the mind to be very distracted from the road, especially on stretches of road where any other traffic would just be other car-sized (or bigger) vehicles all going the same way at the same speed, and not expecting any other kind of traffic on the road or anywhere near it (even though they should be aware of it anyway, they aren't).


I bring this up becuase I regularly see this situation: A car is towing another car, often by a rope or other cable, at a distance greater than a car length, often up to two. The rear car has it's flashers going (the front one might, too, but not always). A car behind them decides he's impatient and wants to go around the slower one that's flashing it's lights (even though often they are NOT slower than the rest of traffic--they see the flashers and automatically react as if they are being impeded by that vehicle; another reason I don't use flashing rear lights on my bikes). So they go around the towed car and immediately try to cut back in front of it, only to find that there's a tow cable/rope in the way, and on one occasion they didn't evne notice it, and swerved into the tow cable, jerking the towed car inot their rear end and themselves into the rear of the towing car, all of which then skidded to a stop and were in turn hit from behind by other traffic. :(

Similarly, I sometimes get very courteous drivers that instead of riding my rear tire stay a fair distance back from me in traffic where we are all going slow due ot construction, road speeds, or conditions, and that leaves a gap between us where another car could almost be, but not quite really big enough for one. When I was on just a not-as-visible bicycle, taking the lane instead of dangerously riding at hte edge of hte road, day or night, drivers would snap around that trailing car and try to swerve into the place I occupied, and/or the insufficient space behind me, and often not even react to my presence until too lat eto do anything but screech their brakes. As I improved the visibility of my bikes, with first DayGlo paint, then daylight-visible lighting systems, big boxes, and finally my "gigantic" CrazyBike2, this happens less and less and less (it's never completely stopped though).

Usually no collisions happen because of either of the above, but the possibility remains that drivers see a gap they can move into and they just do it, without ever looking *into* that gap to see what's there, if it's not blindingly obvious to them without *thinking* about it. I know not all drivers are like this, but often enough if it's not something big enough to hurt *them*, they aren't particularly concerned about running over something smaller than they are that isn't likely to hurt them or their vehicle--it's nto even a conscious choice, I think, it's just a reaction.



One other issue you're very likely to encounter at night (which you may already be used to) is that oncoming headlights on outside-town stretches of road are likely to be on high-beams, and very bright in your eyes, washing out the lighting from your own trike (and probably SAG, too if it's far enough behind you), making it very hard for you to see the road surface, markings, and hazards during those moments and right afterwards. The brighter your own headlight and ground lighting is, the less of a problem that will be for you, which is one of the reasons I have been using automotive headlights for a while now (couple of years? I forget).

Another reason is that side-street traffic is less likely to pull out right in front of me where I can't avoid them without crashing myself into something else if my lights are physically larger surface areas, making them appear closer to them. Point source lights like most bicycle lights appear farther away despite their brightness (evne if they're brighter than the car headlight), just cuz they're smaller. The bigger something is, the closer it looks, especially if it's a light source and is the only part of the vehicle you can see. With pair of headlights, the farther apart they are the closer it looks too. Try it sometime when riding, when all you can see is just the headlights of a single vehicle, and try to guess how far they are from you with no other referents to judge from. A hummer will look a lot closer to you than an old Jeep, cuz the jeep lights are not on the fenders but are in the grill, and are thus *at least* two feet closer together than otherwise, and up to four feet closer together than on a really wide vehicle that has headlights on the corners of the front end. So the jeep looks significantly farther away than it really is, unless you *know* it's a jeep already and can "fix" your judgment based on that. But your instant reactions will be based on the distance between them and their apparent size, and it takes more time for you ot process all the other info consciously and figure out it's really closer than you think it is.

I have had some people disagree strongly with me on all of that, but I've observed my own and other's reactions on the roads for all my life, and that is what I see happen, all too often.

And since going to physically larger headlights, I've had way less problems with people pulling suddenly out in front of me because they think I'm far enough away to be able to do so when I'm not. ;)
 
All the above is why my motto is,,, No car ever passes me from behind that I did not eyeball. Always ready to dive for life into a ditch if need be.

Looks like you have good mirrors already. It's possible that following your support car might work better than leading it. Screw it if drafting it is "cheating".
 
dogman said:
It's possible that following your support car might work better than leading it. Screw it if drafting it is "cheating".
It's more likely that someone asleep at the helm will take the support car as traveling in the lane, move over to travel there, and squash you in an auto sandwich when it tail-ends the support car. Too many police cruisers get hit during a stop for this reason. A 'blocker' car between you and the moving vehicles sounds good to me.....
 
Sounds like a lot of fun! If you can afford it, have at least a duplicate of most everything ie motor, controller, rims, tires, tubes, battery etc...I'm in the Phoenix metro area also and hope to ride a distance with you too. Has anyone mentioned having a really well padded seat yet? Also any parts that might be hard to procure on the road in a reasonable amount of time. Prepare for all types of weather for the season. Alright, have some fun!
 
Hummmmm....wisdom.

OK, some years ago I drifted across the country and back two summers in three years. And one day while driving on one of those trips, and I am not even sure what state I was in, but, I drove up to a highway construction vehicle in a center lane, moving slowly with a bunch of lights flashing. I had a lane to the right and a lane to the left of him so I started to change to the left lane to pass when the vehicle suddenly cut in front of me. I swerved to the right and so did the truck. We both swerved back and forth a few times until I had to slam on my breaks and really slow down to keep from hitting the construction truck. Eventually I was able to move to the right hand lane and pass. Once I was able to pass the construction truck I saw what he was up to. In front of him was a guy on a go-cart looking thing, by hand, placing reflectors on the stripes in-between lanes for cars to seen the lanes more clearly at night.

The long winded point of that is that I could not see the man in the low slung vehicle and could have easily run over him if his buddy in the construction truck had not blocked for him. :shock:

So +1 on making your self waaaaaaaaaay visible. I even say the flag should be under a highly visible flashing yellow warning light on a mast on your rig regardless how much distance it sucks out of you range. It would be hard to explain how loosing 10 miles per day was more important then keeping from getting munched under a car. Can't have enough lighting on your rig both day and night.

As for spare parts...tires, tire liners, some sort of flat prevention goop pumped into the tubes.

A 1kw generator will charge your battery pack just like a 110v wall outlet. Honda's are super quiet in comparison to others. I owned a Honda 2kw when I was driving across the country. It worked great.

Also, speaking of rims, the Left coast is the rim of this continent. If you are going to be anywhere around Los Angeles CA beaches, PM me for my phone number.

You have local support here in LaLa land!

:D
 
‪teklektik:
Thank you for your research and words of encouragement and suggestions! Your build is fantastic...I look forward to reading through your posts. I’ll definitely look closely at getting those tail lights and a motor temp.
It’s good to know that there’s not much difference between the 3540 and 3548 motors. I’m not sure if it matters, but my wheels are 24” rather than the simulated 26”.

dogman:
You’ve been doing a lot of touring! Fantastic! Yes, I wish I had the option to tow a trailer but the relocated gas tank on my adapted minivan will not allow for a towbar. But…I’ll definitely look at those Honda generators.
Interesting idea to follow rather than lead the support van!

amberwolf:
I’ll PM you! Do you know any DIY e-bike people in Tucson?
Yes, those pesky crosswinds. I’ll need to think deeply about flags and such. There are always trade-offs!
Tires and rims are sounding complicated…maybe I’ll stick with my awesome Schwalbe bicycle tires. I don’t seem to be abusing my rims (or bike) too much…but it would be good to investigate moped rims.
I like what you say about SAG, lighting, and safety. I have a lot to consider here! Thank you!

Evoforce:
I’ll PM you! I’m using an old $450 hi-tech wheelchair seat cushion. These things are amazing.

e-beach:
Yes, thanks to the good people at ES I’m designing a mast with lights and a flag. You are right, just can’t justify not having it.
I’ll keep in touch so we can ride together!

The fingers:
You too! We’ll ride. Looking forward to getting my Adventure Cycling Association maps!
 
epictrip said:
amberwolf:
I’ll PM you! Do you know any DIY e-bike people in Tucson?
Not by name, but I'm pretty sure there would be some down there. Probably are ES members down there, but I don't recall any by name ATM; not sure if a forum search can find by location, assuming they put that in there in the first place.

For fabrication, there are Freak Bike Nation people all over, and almost certainly some down there (there's a number here in Phoenix, though I have been unable to meet up with them for a few years now). They build custom bikes and such, often enough completely from scratch but usually hack-n-slash like mine. :lol:
 
epictrip said:
‪teklektik:
It’s good to know that there’s not much difference between the 3540 and 3548 motors. I’m not sure if it matters, but my wheels are 24” rather than the simulated 26”.
It does make a small difference. I ran the comparisons again using 24" wheels, but to be honest, looking at the picture the wheels look more like 20"... I tried using 20" wheels in the sims but couldn't get the bike to hit your top speed of 32mph, so I guess pictures can be deceiving... :)

Anyhow, here's another pair of runs. I ended up using an aero drag (CdA = 0.33) and rolling resistance similar to semi-wide ebike tires (Cr = 0.008). These made the sims hit your 32mph top speed. With only a single data point (32mph), it's a bit of a guess, but the Cda falls in line with recumbent figures, so I don't think it's too far off. I think the weight is a bit too high - maybe 300lbs bike+rider would have been more accurate, but this does not have a huge effect.

The idea here is to adjust the System A throttle then 'simulate' until the throttle setting gives the desired speed. 'System B' does not have a speed indicator, so the throttle there is adjusted until the System B Power curve intersects the load line at the same point as System A.

HS3548-HS3540_wheel=24_Grade=0_Speed=20.png

HS3548-HS3540_wheel=24_Grade=7_Speed=15.png

As you can see, things remain about equal on the flat with the HS 3540 is giving a small but measurable advantage on the 7% climb (4% improvement in Wh/mi). Still - not enough difference that I would be thinking about a retrofit.

This did get me thinking though about using a gear motor. This is perhaps not a 'first choice' for a 10000mi trip because of moving parts and reliability, but in the big scheme of things, a second laced wheel would be a small expense compared to the overall undertaking. There are several to choose from, but I went with the newest eZee V2 models from ebikes.ca for two reasons: they're in the simulator, and they are claimed to have the highest efficiency for gear motors (82%). The results are interesting:

HS3548-eZee20V2_wheel=24_Grade=0_Speed=20.png

HS3548-eZee20V2_wheel=24_Grade=7_Speed=15.png
Running on the flat, there is no appreciable difference between the eZee and the present HS3548 as far as energy rate and range are concerned. There is the expected torque advantage for the eZee at the low end (blue oval) which would give much more powerful getaways. But, since getaways aren't much of a consideration for long distance running, the eZee advantage there is of little consequence.

However, on the 7% grade, the eZee does very much better, giving substantially better efficiency and range. The business of overheating is a little slippery - the HS will not overheat on a 5% grade, while the eZee will not overheat up to a 9% grade. So - for 'typical' roads with grades 5% or less, overheating is no issue for either - but the eZee might be nice in some places.... Backing off the throttle will cure overheating, but speed suffers. Again, the eZee has substantially better getaway power on grades, which may be worth considering.

Anyhow, I leave it to you to think about, although I do wonder if having a second wheel/motor to swap in for mountainous areas would be a good idea to extend range and assist with getaways - just have the mechanic bolt it up after dinner for the next day's running. This might get you the reliability of the DD for the bulk of your journey, and somewhat better performance in areas where 'flat and level' and nowhere to be found...

I am sure you are getting more experience with your bike and will be more familiar with performance at different speeds by the time the journey begins, but I ran another set of estimates regarding headwind. This seemed like it might be useful in the midwest (or elsewhere) to help get the most range from a charge. These estimates are straight physics and don't have the advantage of the simulator modeling which is based on actual motor testing (the simulator doesn't do headwind). As a result, I just used a mean motor efficiency of 74% instead of the variable values that the model can provide. I also used an 80% depth of discharge for your Xalt battery, although you may be planning on a more aggressive regimen to increase range.

Anyhow - the figures may not be accurate because of the parameter guessimates, but the Wh/mi and range rates should at least suggest trends that may help adjust speed to get most mileage per charge. Dropping your speed with a 6-9mph headwind has a dramatic effect on range. (Apologies for the A-E headings instead of something more detailed, but this is a generic calculator - look in the upper left table for the associated curve parameters.)

JourneyBike_Headwind4.pngView attachment XALT_SpecSheet_75Ah_HP.pdf
 
Some of the Wh/mi rates under more adverse loading conditions makes me wonder if it would not be a good idea to have a second pack that you could slide in to eliminate the need for daytime charging. This would also serve as a backup for less motor-taxing traveling ensuring that BMS or other battery maladies did not interrupt the trip.

In this situation, the second pack might even be charged from the chase car while it is underway - using a 12 or 24v alternator source to drive the balance charger. This also replaces strategies involving a generator.
 
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