Graph:What if Solar Got the Same Subsidies as Coal?

[MitchJi]

Hi,

http://1bog.org/blog/what-if-solar-power-had-fossil-fuel-like-subsidies-infographic/

 

[Gow864]

What if coal didn't burn when it got dark.

 

[MitchJi]

Hi,

What if coal didn't burn when it got dark.

Thats another reason coal is cheaper than solar and wind.

 

[boostjuice]

What if coal didn't burn when it got dark.

Photo-Voltaic power production for immediate grid consumption isn't the only form of solar....

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=how-to-use-solar-energy-at-night

 

[BenHarack]

The claims made in this graphic are incorrect. Solar is more expensive than coal. Transitioning to solar would be more expensive than going to coal (or almost any other energy technology for that matter). Solar photovoltaics are making great progress, but they are still very expensive. Solar thermal shows more potential, but even it is not beating coal yet. The fact that coal creates 40% of the world's electricity is not accidental. It is really cheap. This graphic cites the total subsidies for the fossil fuel industry. This includes oil and natural gas as well, two giant industries that receive huge tax breaks to encourage domestic development. The details show us that solar has great potential, but that does not mean that this graphic is an accurate representation of what is actually going on.
At Vision of Earth we wrote a response to this graphic, which people can find if they want at our site: Misconceptions spreading about the price of solar power

 

[dogman dan]

Germany's solar subsidy is pretty extreme. But it would be nice for me, if I could just get the govt to help with the financing of the 2kw that would fit on my roof. There has been some talk of a tax district type thing, but each county in NM has to fund it and implement it. So far lots of talk but no action.

The cost of a solar panel vs the cost of the same energy from El Paso Electric are about the same. What's different is I don't have to pay a bunch of interest on a home equity loan, or refinance the house to get the EPE power. Once you add that financing cost to solar, it is too expensive. Or was till last summers rate hike....

Some kind of low interest loan for the panels backed by the govt would do it for me, along with the 30% tax break already in place of course. I don't care who I pay $100 a month to. I do live in a place where the sun shines a lot. Unfortunately my roof design wouldn't allow me to put 5 kw up there and be completely self sufficient when the sun shines.

Already insulated the house and put in solar thermal panels that cut my house heating bill by 75% BTW.

 

[katou]

Here in Ontario, if households produce power, we can feed it back into the grid for $0.80 per kwh. We buy from the grid at around $0.13 per kwh.

So, delta is $0.67 per kwh available for repaying solar installation costs.

Not great, but not too bad either. No solar for me though, my location sucks.

Katou

 

[MitchJi]

Hi Ben,

The claims made in this graphic are incorrect. Solar is more expensive than coal.

The graphic doesn't claim Solar is cheaper than coal. Only that with equal subsidies it would be.

Transitioning to solar would be more expensive than going to coal (or almost any other energy technology for that matter). Solar photovoltaics are making great progress, but they are still very expensive. Solar thermal shows more potential, but even it is not beating coal yet. The fact that coal creates 40% of the world's electricity is not accidental. It is really cheap.

Its really cheap if you don't count the environmental and health costs of extraction (leveling mountains and black lung for example) and the environmental and health costs of burning it. Killing our oceans with Mercury for example (I have three friends that had Mercury toxicity issues from eating quite a bit of fish) and coal ash ponds for another.

The details show us that solar has great potential, but that does not mean that this graphic is an accurate representation of what is actually going on....

At Vision of Earth we wrote a response to this graphic, which people can find if they want at our site: Misconceptions spreading about the price of solar power

It shows that if we are willing to have a large number of people suffer from otherwise unnecessary health problems and don't mind killing our oceans and destroying appalachia we can save a few bucks in the short term by using coal?

Any propaganda about "Clean Coal" or the tooth fairy?

 

[dogman dan]

Nice, here where the sun shines, I can buy power for 13 cents, but If I sold it I would get 6 cents. Can't fit all I'd use on my roof anyway though. I just don't want to pay 10 cents a kwh for the panels, and then pay another 10 to sharks at some bank is all.

There are some pretty good size solar power projects in the works right now though, using solar thermal tech instead of photovoltaic. This is the place for it.

 

[x88x]

[..]using solar thermal tech instead of photovoltaic. This is the place for it.

Agreed. Too often people forget that there are other methods of solar power production besides photovoltaic.

Re the night time issue, A123 actually recently won a contract to supply AES Corp with systems to deal with exactly that problem. Imagine a big shipping container full of 2MW of A123 prismatic cells. Barring a roll-out of a new nation-wide electric grid, this may be one of the better options for balancing demand with supply at the plant level.
http://www.a123systems.com/a123/applications/grid-stabilization
http://ir.a123systems.com/releasedetail.cfm?ReleaseID=498155

 

[dogman dan]

Another reason for using solar thermal for the big installations. You can easily store heat, it's just not cheap. But depending on the fuel used you can turn on and off generators pretty quick. Not steam turbines of course, but using natural gas, or gas extracted from coal, you can use turbines that can be turned on and off on demand. Using the fossil fuel less in a 24 hr period is a start.

But yeah, integrating flaky supplies like solar and wind into existing generating setups is definitely hard, unless you can store enough to get you through till the plant gets up steam. So some storage is needed, like a traincar of lifepo4.

 

[TylerDurden]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compressed_air_energy_storage