Greentime controllers

kentlim26 said:
There are many guys do not own a CA, and there are many guys do not have two watt up meter . Im one of the guy do not own a CA, But I did try to buy another wattup meter from hobby king. Each watt up meter from Hobbyking cost USD23.+ x 2 = USD46 exclude shipping cost. I think methods is right about it when he talk about his controller he saw is only a 50amps output, he has CA to show. when I have One watt up meter, I never tell anyone " oh this thing gives more then 60amps output it will be very embarrassed if it gives only 42amps. One watt up meter can accept only up to 60volts or say max 14cells. 14cells = 58v+ .


im quite okay with this 45amps true output from a 18fets 4110, 60amps ... sorry. it should be call a 18fets 4110 , 50amps controller, greentime.

is not bad after all, 14cells a top speed fastly reached 55.5km/h !, and a 19cells it reached 72.3km/h which is not bad. my goal top speed to reached is 60km/h .
enjoy.
Click to expand...

does the watts up meter measure peak A? i do not want to shell out for a CA, the only thing i use is a voltmeter, so i have not confirmed that it can reach 60a in wye, it just feels more powerful than other controllers when i take off with WOT.
 
ian.mich said:
does the watts up meter measure peak A? i do not want to shell out for a CA, the only thing i use is a voltmeter, so i have not confirmed that it can reach 60a in wye, it just feels more powerful than other controllers when i take off with WOT.
Click to expand...

All of these power meters measure in the DC circuit, so measure DC current and voltage. They have a reasonable response time, but won't accurately read and display short peaks of less than around 1/2 to 1 second. Some do separately record and display peaks that occur within the normal sampling window of 1/2 second or so and display them as a peak value, but this is more of a way to be able to see the highest current pulled during a run than a means of measuring and recording very short duration peak current or voltage spikes.
 
ian.mich said:
pff7 said:
Got the 60V 1000-1200W 45Amax BLDC motor controller 15FET 4410 controller to replace stock controller on yescom kit, didn't have any custom setup done with it, what is default settings?
Click to expand...

what do you mean? lvc is 52.5v, max amps are 45, max volts are 100. solder some nice connectors on and start testing.
Click to expand...

Sorry,meant with the 3 speed connection.

Got 66.4 volts connected ,4 4s20chardpack lipo, thumb throttle connected, why does it light the thumb throttle telling me it's empty(lower light on only). With throttle connection connected, motor doesn't work.Tried adding another 4s hardpack,now it lights up saying full charge,but still motor won't go.( 48v 5000W motor) so now 5 x avg.15 volts=75 volts,indicator on thumb throttle lights fine but no juice apparently to motor.

I figured trying a diff./new thumb throttle but is their any voltages I could check on any connections?
(stock thumb throttle seems pretty cheap)maybe need hall throttle?

Hall sensor connection just like stock, throttle connected, though male-female are opposite---tried measuring voltage on phase wires-no voltage, which would rule out the motor.
 
pff7 said:
ian.mich said:
pff7 said:
Got the 60V 1000-1200W 45Amax BLDC motor controller 15FET 4410 controller to replace stock controller on yescom kit, didn't have any custom setup done with it, what is default settings?
Click to expand...

what do you mean? lvc is 52.5v, max amps are 45, max volts are 100. solder some nice connectors on and start testing.
Click to expand...

Sorry,meant with the 3 speed connection.

Got 66.4 volts connected ,4 4s20chardpack lipo, thumb throttle connected, why does it light the thumb throttle telling me it's empty(lower light on only). With throttle connection connected, motor doesn't work.Tried adding another 4s hardpack,now it lights up saying full charge,but still motor won't go.( 48v 5000W motor) so now 5 x avg.15 volts=75 volts,indicator on thumb throttle lights fine but no juice apparently to motor.

I figured trying a diff./new thumb throttle but is their any voltages I could check on any connections?
(stock thumb throttle seems pretty cheap)maybe need hall throttle?

Hall sensor connection just like stock, throttle connected, though male-female are opposite---tried measuring voltage on phase wires-no voltage, which would rule out the motor.
Click to expand...

Oh usually default 3 speed is 100 percent, actually using the 3 speed i dont know. As for your problem, have you turned on the controller by connecting the small red and purple wires? have you touched the green and red wires together on the controller to yield WOT? try a different throttle. which model of controller did you get? all of the controllers work with+without sensors (very useful for testing) EXCEPT the 18fet, which is a great controller imho
 
Jeremy Harris said:
ian.mich said:
does the watts up meter measure peak A? i do not want to shell out for a CA, the only thing i use is a voltmeter, so i have not confirmed that it can reach 60a in wye, it just feels more powerful than other controllers when i take off with WOT.
Click to expand...

All of these power meters measure in the DC circuit, so measure DC current and voltage. They have a reasonable response time, but won't accurately read and display short peaks of less than around 1/2 to 1 second. Some do separately record and display peaks that occur within the normal sampling window of 1/2 second or so and display them as a peak value, but this is more of a way to be able to see the highest current pulled during a run than a means of measuring and recording very short duration peak current or voltage spikes.
Click to expand...

Then likely the watts up meter is not sampling fast enough to see the 60A, that's a lot of power so it is definatelly maintained for a very short period of time.
 
ian.mich said:
Then likely the watts up meter is not sampling fast enough to see the 60A, that's a lot of power so it is definatelly maintained for a very short period of time.
Click to expand...

You can definitely see the set max controller current on one of these though. All you need to do is climb a hill at full throttle and watch for the current settling out at max - that will be the controller current limit. For example, my display updates about every 0.4 second, but clearly shows when the controller is limiting, as the current just stays at a pretty constant number at full load. You only need to run for a few seconds up a hill, starting at a low speed to see this.

There's a deliberate current overshoot for a short time, above the current limit setting, to aid acceleration (the time duration of which can be user programmed in the case of the Xiechang, and can probably be programmed by the vendor in the case of Wuxi Technology controllers like the Greentime), but this current overshoot is relatively uncontrolled and will be above the controller current limit setting by maybe 20 to 50%. In my case I have the overshoot time set to only 0.1S to help tame a twitchy throttle, but we have no way of knowing if the Wuxi has a similar setting option or what its setting range may be, unfortunately, so we can't really guess what effect that might have on instantaneous current measurements. Nevertheless, this won't affect the fairly steady state reading taken when climbing a hill, all it may mean is that the current may be seen to fall back to the controller set current a short time after peaking at a higher level.
 
my area doesn't have hill but some simple slops. Mostly flat. I run with 100% WOT all the time whenever is possible trying hard to see at least 50amps, but nothing had passed over. Without a Watts up meter = nobody will know either is >40amps peak, or >50amps peak or >60amps. I will try Jeremy methods, really thank you .. My last test I got 43.61 amps on my 14cells 58.43v , I got a surprised good top speed. 58.6Km/h flat ground. it had been very rarely Per volt = 1km/h
 
kentlim26 said:
my area doesn't have hill but some simple slops. Mostly flat. I run with 100% WOT all the time whenever is possible trying hard to see at least 50amps, but nothing had passed over. Without a Watts up meter = nobody will know either is >40amps peak, or >50amps peak or >60amps. I will try Jeremy methods, really thank you .. My last test I got 43.61 amps on my 14cells 58.43v , I got a surprised good top speed. 58.6Km/h flat ground. it had been very rarely Per volt = 1km/h
Click to expand...

You can always apply the brakes at the same time to load the motor up for this check, but this only works if you haven't got the ebrake switches connected to the controller.
 
It was the on/off switch, thanks Ian, motor goes, was giving me a nervous breakdown,lol.

One of the most serious shortcomings of MOSFET's is the fact that they are easily destroyed by electrostatic discharge. When circuits containing metal-oxide-semiconductor devices are built or serviced, techs must use special equipment to ensure that their hands do not carry electrostatic charges that might ruin the components. If a static discharge occurs through the thin,fragile dielectric layer inside a MOSFET, the damage is permanent.

My first controller was destroyed being that it got wet(bike was locked on a tree outside and at the time it was dry outside,then later I didn't notice it started raining,not very hard mind you,but it rained) , are these geentime controllers just as sensitive to being out in the rain?

I wish someone warned about this.
 
In my quest to find a way to mod Greentime controllers, I've found this :
http://x8m06-c.13ic.com/
http://407.13ic.com/seller/X8M06-C.html
I don't know if this information could be useful to understand the protocol that is used to program the X8M06-C chip but I think that it's a step int the right direction.
Hope this is not one piece of a bigger puzzle...
 
PeeHell said:
In my quest to find a way to mod Greentime controllers, I've found this :
http://x8m06-c.13ic.com/
I don't know if this information could be useful to understand the protocol that is used to program the X8M06-C chip but I think that it's a step int the right direction.
Hope this is not one piece of a bigger puzzle...
Click to expand...

why would you need to mod it? shunt and LVC are easy to change. all the other programming and features are worthless unless you want ugly handlebars or a scooter. i design my systems with 4 things annd only those: on/off switch, throttle, battery, motor. ebrake lever optional.
 
ian.mich said:
why would you need to mod it? shunt and LVC are easy to change. all the other programming and features are worthless unless you want ugly handlebars or a scooter. i design my systems with 4 things annd only those: on/off switch, throttle, battery, motor. ebrake lever optional.
Click to expand...

The shunt mod isn't a good or even a clever way to increase the current, for reasons that have been debated before (essentially it desensitises or even disables the controller fault protection circuit). Programming the current allows the controller to work just as it would have originally, and retains the fault protection functionality at the higher programmed current. Programming would probably allow the same degree of tuning that's available with the Xiechang, and is invaluable for doing things like getting a better throttle response at high overall power levels (by adjusting the battery/phase current ratio, for example). With access to the programming tool we would almost certainly find that there a lot of features in the controller that can be adjusted a tweaked to improve performance in particular applications.

Right now these Wuxi Technology controllers are cheap, but not at all flexible; we're stuck with whatever (unknown) settings the vendor has chosen to programme in. We don't know for sure the programmed current limit, neither do we have a clue what the current overshoot period is, or the battery current to phase current ratio. We know, from playing around with the programming on the Xiechang controllers, that changing these settings can make a big difference to the feel of a bike. For example, a bike I recently built turned out to be very twitchy on the throttle, making it virtually either on or off at low speed (not something I'd noticed on other builds with different motors). A few minutes with the laptop plugged in and the phase current to battery current ratio changed and the bike was transformed, making a lot nicer to use at low speeds on the local cycle paths, but retaining the same high speed performance for the roads.

If a way could be found to uncover the programming protocol for these controllers, a protocol that is probably fairly similar to that used by the Xiechang range, then it really would make them a great choice, rather than just a reasonable choice.
 
Thanks Jeremy, that is exactly what I think about these controllers. The lower price and the sensorless function is a plus value compared to Xiechang. In the meantine, we're stuck at hardware mod as described here :
http://www.avdweb.nl/solar-bike/electronics/ku63-motor-controller.html

I'll try to do the reverse engineering of the 12 fets and 15 fets from Leo to better understand the working principles of those.
 
PeeHell said:
Thanks Jeremy, that is exactly what I think about these controllers. The lower price and the sensorless function is a plus value compared to Xiechang. In the meantine, we're stuck at hardware mod as described here :
http://www.avdweb.nl/solar-bike/electronics/ku63-motor-controller.html

I'll try to do the reverse engineering of the 12 fets and 15 fets from Leo to better understand the working principles of those.
Click to expand...

The Xiechang is also available sensorless, has been for a while. There are two versions, one with a very similar sensorless zero crossing detector circuit to the Wuxi Technology controllers and one that is sensor only.

The 12 FET and 15 FET controllers seem to use the same core circuit as the 6 FET controllers, and like the Xiechangs, the Wuxi's share the FET drivers (which are virtually identical to the Xiechang FET drivers).

If we could get the software and protocols for the Wuxi Technology controllers then I personally would be very happy, as it would make them my preferred controller for sure.
 
It would be great if it would be possible to do something like the XPD software with the information from the link above (byte read/write protocol). Has anyone got Leo to tell more information about anything related to software ?
 
PeeHell said:
It would be great if it would be possible to do something like the XPD software with the information from the link above (byte read/write protocol). Has anyone got Leo to tell more information about anything related to software ?
Click to expand...

My understanding is that Leo point blank refuses to release the programming software, but there are several other vendors of these same controllers, like BMS Battery, Green Bike Kit etc, so perhaps we might have more luck with them (although I doubt it, as those two vendors would be that helpful, either). What we really need is to find a vendor that's as helpful as Keywin.
 
anyone want to try xiecheng program on a greentime? its a long shot
 
Jeremy Harris said:
PeeHell said:
It would be great if it would be possible to do something like the XPD software with the information from the link above (byte read/write protocol). Has anyone got Leo to tell more information about anything related to software ?
Click to expand...

My understanding is that Leo point blank refuses to release the programming software, but there are several other vendors of these same controllers, like BMS Battery, Green Bike Kit etc, so perhaps we might have more luck with them (although I doubt it, as those two vendors would be that helpful, either). What we really need is to find a vendor that's as helpful as Keywin.
Click to expand...

Jeremy,

Have you dealt with Leo? I have for 10 months now, and my understanding is that they aren't the ones who load the program settings. That's why we're lucky to even be able to order custom settings at all. As evidence that's true on one order I wanted to change some settings just before it was ready for shipment, and that was going to be a very difficult and time consuming process. I believe I'm a good enough customer that if it was just a matter of sliding the board out of the case and re-flashing new settings, my change request would have been a non-issue.

Comparisons of Leo to Keywin aren't valid. Keywin is a technical guy and Leo is not. I don't think Leo has ever assembled a controller.
 
John in CR said:
Jeremy,

Have you dealt with Leo? I have for 10 months now, and my understanding is that they aren't the ones who load the program settings. That's why we're lucky to even be able to order custom settings at all. As evidence that's true on one order I wanted to change some settings just before it was ready for shipment, and that was going to be a very difficult and time consuming process. I believe I'm a good enough customer that if it was just a matter of sliding the board out of the case and re-flashing new settings, my change request would have been a non-issue.

Comparisons of Leo to Keywin aren't valid. Keywin is a technical guy and Leo is not. I don't think Leo has ever assembled a controller.
Click to expand...

I'm only going on what has been posted here, John, where someone said that Leo wouldn't let them have the programming code. Maybe the "wouldn't" should have been a "couldn't" and the difference got lost in translation. These Wuxi Technology controllers have a very similar programming port to the Xiechang controllers, and are vendor programmable in the same way, I'm certain. Wuxi Technology send them out unprogrammed, according to the info I've managed to sort of decode so far, with the end user/manufacturer of the ebike programming them as required for the particular application. Looking at the board and circuit, reflashing the controller looks to be just as easy as it is for the Xiechang controllers, which makes sense, as the ebike manufacturers have to have an easy way of quickly programming them.
 
MOQ 20 pieces..... They also have a 9 pin port on the controller to plug into the computer- we'd need to see inside the controller and see where the pins go to.
 
Doesn't seem to be any of the controllers I can see on the Wuxi Xichen Micro-Electronic Co web site, here: http://www.xcmmcu.com/ , although it's hard to tell without a photo of the board that's inside the case.
 
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