GT i-drive 2.0 Build

[kfong]

Greg, looks like your already having fun with that bike, the stanchions should be kept clean. You can put some oil on them to keep it running smooth. The top seals can be popped off. The foam pads probably need to lifted out, cleaned and soaked with oil. The dents on the bottom usually don't mean much as long as they are smooth. I've got a couple on my Kona. I'm sure you will get the bike running like new. I survice all of my bikes. The only thing left that I haven't done is wheel lacing, but will be doing that this winter. Go on YouTube for any service how to vids.

 

[grindz145]

Sweet! Dibs on your old bike...

 

[GCinDC]

Sweet! Dibs on your old bike...

lol. sorry. i think i'll be keeping it as my non-jumping, heavy, all-weather commuter... besides don't you already have 50 bikes? :lol:

for the giant, i'd started to think about a 1200W cyclone, and now the bighit thread may be sealing the deal.

looks like most folks mount it below the tube, but why not put it in the triangle? i should have enough room.

here's the 1200W cyclone kit i'm looking at. or if i can figure out just what partsi'll want, getting them separately... any advice welcome.

the stanchions should be kept clean. You can put some oil on them to keep it running smooth. The top seals can be popped off. The foam pads probably need to lifted out, cleaned and soaked with oil.

thanks, kfong. i'll look into this. special oil?

 

[kfong]

I would check what the company recommends. I thought lithium was ok for most stuff, but learned recently that it does damage certain seals, so now I try to go with what is recommended. Most of the time it's the same oil you use to fill the shock.

The cyclone motors 600-1200w are all the same. They only increase the voltage and provide a controller to handle the higher wattage. I am running the original 600W motor on 12S Lipo's. It has tons of torque and easily goes to 30mph on 2nd gear. The only issue I have with it is the gear setup. I can't really help with any pedal effort. I really need to change my setup to 2 crank gears. Currently my motor output is in series with the cranks. This locks me into a gear that is useless for pedaling at higher speeds. Having 2 cranks, one for the motor and one for pedal will give you better options for gearing. Get a 44 or bigger for the pedal cranks and go with something smaller for the motor output like 32 tooth.

I'm actually using the original 24volt controller with no mods at the higher voltage. I been running it for a while now without any problems. For all I know they might be all the same as well but with different labels. You just need to verify the input cap rating and fet. I did neither. You can go to my build thread on that bike to see what I did for the motor mount, but I would change the whole setup for trail riding. If I were to do it again, I would put the motor on the bottom parallel to the down tube and enough clearance for the front wheel. As long as the motor is higher than your cranks, you will not have any issues. The mounting hardware for the cyclone is useless, throw it out. It won't last for what we do. You will have to come up with your own mounting setup, this will make things a bit more difficult if you don't have any equipment to make it. If I have time this winter I might rebuild the setup, but it's not a priorty since it's so damn reliable for errands and such.

If you keep the batteries in the triangle and the motor parallel to the down tube. The balance will be kept centered for the bike. For crashes, batteries in the triangle works best.

Sweet! Dibs on your old bike...

lol. sorry. i think i'll be keeping it as my non-jumping, heavy, all-weather commuter... besides don't you already have 50 bikes? :lol:

for the giant, i'd started to think about a 1200W cyclone, and now the bighit thread may be sealing the deal.

looks like most folks mount it below the tube, but why not put it in the triangle? i should have enough room.

here's the 1200W cyclone kit i'm looking at. or if i can figure out just what partsi'll want, getting them separately... any advice welcome.

the stanchions should be kept clean. You can put some oil on them to keep it running smooth. The top seals can be popped off. The foam pads probably need to lifted out, cleaned and soaked with oil.

thanks, kfong. i'll look into this. special oil?

 

[GCinDC]

thanks, kfong. good tips. i meant to ask, is your cyclone noisy?

A word of caution - is that torque arm you posted only on one side ? I had my HT motor rip itself from the drop outs...

as with most advice i ignore at the time, it tends to stay there in the back of my mind. and with this weird pulsing sensation when regen activates.... i thought it was particular to the motor, but methods didn't know what i meant... so, uh, yeah. glad to be able to be here to write this post! the right side nut was not very tight, and the worm clamp hadn't even been tightened. i removed everything and the axle had been working it's way out...

i think this is all from my having not properly tightening it rather than it loosening but the situation will be watched. it's good to know the left side one will hold it as long as it will.

after tightening, there is no regen activated pulse - ie, axle shift in dropout...

hyena scores another one. A BIG ONE. i could have had a rather shitty monday morning, and messed up the rush hour commute to boot.

hit 49mph going thru the tunnel when i happened to look so mighta been faster.

 

[kfong]

Yeah, it's noisy. Not as bad as an RC drive I think, but I have yet to build one on a bike. I have flown quite a few of them on rc planes. People do notice sometimes when I trail ride with it, and it's very obvious when I'm blasting down the street at full throttle. It was one of the main reasons I went with the BMC on my trail bike. Very little gear noise and lots of torque. It allows me to stay stealthy. Versus will get the same BMC setup. The latest BMC's are pretty much the same V2 motors, but with thicker phase wires and better clutch/gears. If kept under 2000w I think they will be tough to break. Easy to change out parts if you mess up. Mac motors can use the same parts from what I read, so that would be a cheaper alternative. You would probably go with the speed version if you went this route. The motor is around 8-9 lbs. light compared to all the DD hubs putting out similar performance. You can't over amp these like DD hubs though, or they burn out. No place for the heat to move. Both Cyclone and BMC at 12S are very close. Cyclone has a slight advantage by being able to go to low gear, but I can help with the BMC since motor drive and pedal drive are separate. I'm also usually on my highest gear as well. Both are fun, but I'm still biased towards the BMC.

 

[Alan B]

How about a mid drive BMC?

 

[GCinDC]

How about a mid drive BMC?

ignorance on full display here, but that never stopped me... what does a hub motor mid drive look like? like a hub motor in the middle of the triangle (if it fits?) the axle somehow secured and and a single gear on the side....?

from kfong's description, i'm thinking a bmc is a pretty good compromise! three years ago i was about to buy one after months of research, but cheaped out at the last minute and bought a GM kit. :lol:

 

[Alan B]

I think someone has a thread around here about a BMC mid drive. Recently.

 

[Alan B]

Here:

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=34158

Note - may not be a BMC, but a torque type geared hubmotor.

 

[newb]

here is another example of a hub mid drive

http://www.fortunehanebrink.com/

 

[Hyena]

hyena scores another one. A BIG ONE. i could have had a rather shitty monday morning, and messed up the rush hour commute to boot.
hit 49mph going thru the tunnel when i happened to look so mighta been faster.

I could save the world if I got online more often huh ?
Glad it didn't let go on you at those sorts of speeds!

I found on mine one side held on fairly well, skewing the wheel's mount and jamming the tyre up against the chain stay and very quickly bringing the bike to a halt. It was only at low speeds off road though - twice in my driveway as I gunned the throttle to test it.

Nice work on the new bike too, looks prime for conversion!

 

[kfong]

For lower cost cell man carries the Mac motors. From what I can tell, they are pretty much the same. They even come in black now. I jump mine all the time and it's held up. I do let off on the throttle before I land, but not always. Each year I have been less concerned how I ride it, and pretty much treat it how I would normally ride. I think it's when you push too much power through them that you run into trouble. I have more breakdowns with the bike than the motor or controller. I only need gearing on the bike when I'm out of power. Most of the time it's on the highest or one gear down. The motor has held up well for 3 seasons. I had to tighten all the spokes recently, but should be checking more frequently with the increase 12S voltage. The last two years was only at 40volts with a 35amp limit. So the motor was not really taxed at all. It's now at 48v at 35amps. knoxie would be the person to ask about pushing this motor. I'm just getting started.

dpearce was one member who really pushed the BMC, I think he is still running it. He did some nice jumps with it as well.
http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=24253

How about a mid drive BMC?

ignorance on full display here, but that never stopped me... what does a hub motor mid drive look like? like a hub motor in the middle of the triangle (if it fits?) the axle somehow secured and and a single gear on the side....?

from kfong's description, i'm thinking a bmc is a pretty good compromise! three years ago i was about to buy one after months of research, but cheaped out at the last minute and bought a GM kit. :lol:

 

[Whiplash]

Hopefully ill have some brackets made up this weekend so ill post pics if you like. I assure you, 3000ish watts through the gears is a big deal! I had just over 1500 before and it did 40MPH and dam near climb a rock face! However, for your type of street riding, a single gear may have its advantages.

 

[GCinDC]

awesome photo, newb! that looks sweet.

but i was just playing w/ a 9C and:

nevermind w/ the axle popping thru! :lol:

i certainly remember dpearce's jumps. he really pushed that. looks like there are high torque and high speed versions. is that diff for real?

oh hey whip, i didn't know what you're talking about, but i need to check out your thread...

 

[Whiplash]

Here:

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=34158

Note - may not be a BMC, but a torque type geared hubmotor.

Sorry, I should have said this is my thread...

 

[veloman]

i certainly remember dpearce's jumps. he really pushed that. looks like there are high torque and high speed versions. is that diff for real?

.

Yeah, there is a 6 turn (high speed - what I ride), 8 turn (normal) and 10 turn (torque). Neptronix knows a lot about them, and pushing them hard. I pretty much baby mine at the most 48v 23 amp so far. I'm told they have a wider power band than a DD and therefore more efficient at lower speeds. I'm not sure you want to be putting 4000w through them all the time though.

I still think you should go to an RC drive since you want to do lots of jumps. The weight of a hubbie (even the Mac at 10lbs) just kills the bike characteristics.

 

[knoxie]

Hi G

Glad you spotted the wheel nut! that might have been scary at 50mph? this is the issue with regen, it will loosen the bolts if all is not well with torque arms and the nuts arent tight enough, the torque arms need to be snug on the axle else the torque will be shared or held mainly on the drops and the nut and hence it will loosen.

New bike looks really nice though, kind of a shame to do anything to it other than ride it really however once you go electric peddling seems so last year doesn't it! ha ha.

BMC motors are great but I fear your riding style and the for sure the voltages you use will cause much heartache, I think an RC drive if you can live with the extra care setup and attention would be a good call, however you may want to go sensored if you do.

The BMC motors are fine up to about 2.5KW of power, I wouldn't run past 60V either as the old school xlyte controllers never liked the speed that high, Maybe neither would the Lyens? and it would regularly blow controllers, keep the RPM lower and things will be fine, I run mine at 50V 35A on the BMX and the main work bike, all have been fine in 4 years, never had any issues, I am careful on acceleration not to stress the gears and one way bearing, nice and smooth on the throttle, the gears and one way bearings are in great shape in both motors. However my power levels would seem pretty tame to what you are used to.

I think RC would be a good experiment, you have done the heck out of hub motors and I think you will love the power from an RC setup, I wouldn't use one as my daily rider but for an off road screamer its got to be worth a go. See Pauls bike in the Death Race, a great example of what I mean.

See what santa brings, I have always wanted to do a sensored RC rig, my experience with Deecs rig didn't put me off entirely.

Keep checking your nuts...ahem!

Knoxie

 

[GCinDC]

thanks all.

sure, i wanted it all, but am resigned to having two bikes for now. it's such a pain to change the tires on the GT Idrive (partly cause my torque arm situation, which must be fixed mind you) that i don't bother with the hassle of swapping the street tires w/ nobbies. so whenever i got in the woods, it's like bringing a knife to a gun fight. so, the GT idrive/hs3540 soon w/ snow/ice tires will be the all weather commuter.

and the giant with the loosey goosey, saggy, floppy bottom, lol, will be the high torque, low speed, big nobby bush-whacker. i don't need it to go 40mph. 30 would be plenty, and then mainly to shuttle me to the next obstacle course, or what have you.

noise has always been an issue, so if the MAC has torque, i'm happy to keep the voltage under 60 or whatever range is good for me to beat on it.

if i want to climb steep dirt hills, you'd recommend the high torque MAC i suppose? what would it's top speed be at the highest reliable voltage?

etard, here's a mini fishtail for you, at 0:09:
[youtube]aZGewD-HkYA[/youtube]

 

[ambroseliao]

Hi Greg,

The video is "Private."

 

[kfong]

To confuse you even more Greg, have you looked at the Magic pie III. A little heavier but has the torque. The internal controller can be replaced with an external one and you would be able to bash on it as well as run high voltages. I've reached my bike limit so it won't be a motor I would be playing with unfortunately. You get stealth as far as noise but loose out on it being larger but skinnier, torque, high wattage and some weight savings compared to X5 or 9C.

I had some time during Thanksgiving to work on my Kona. You wanted some pics of that build. Here is the motor setup I will use with the gear box. Unfortunately, I've already changed the design. This setup is only good for a left side drive or if on the right side, it would have to be in the triangle. I want it under the bottom tube on the right side, so I will be making another set of mounts. I originally wanted it on the left side but the chain length gets changed for a full suspension. It ended up being more of a hassle to deal with. If I come up with a better strategy, I will still have that option at least. I need to cut the shaft down on the motor, but I might attach a fan for cooling and will wait till that gets figured out. I'm using #25 chain for the fist stage. Not sure how it sounds yet, but I do plan to put a cover over the first stage. I will eventually start a full thread on the build when I get more done.

 

[chroot]

You would want get 8T MAC, They are so torque and pretty FAST about 35-37mph and you can able run uphill at 30mph no time. The 8T gives about 360 RPM, 6T is speedy good for flat road and it run at 400RPM. The 10T is monstrous torque but very slow in speed - I can't remember how fast RPM output on 10T.

I rode ilia's BMC v2t almost same as 10T and this thing is so monstrous cuz easy lose traction. I almost crashed on ilia's surly longtail ebike. :lol:


BMC and MAC are look same alike but bit different the gearbox. I am getting 8T MAC kit for my girlfriend's new ebike. 8)

 

[bandaro]

Oh frock the hanebrink design, sure he may be a brilliant designer, but 600 watts with wheels that small and fat, it would weigh a ton, have a huge amount of resistance, and be rather slow. Sure, it may go well on soft surfaces and offroad, but how often do you ride on sand? What happens when the battery is flat? We want bikes not mars rovers.

I'm with whiplash, 3kw through the bb is powerful, even 1 kw can get you going easily, the hardest part is fitting the gearing needed into the frame.

 

[GCinDC]

[youtube]heo7Ki0GeHY[/youtube]

 

[grindz145]

Your riding easier these days eh.... :lol: