Halled motor cogging on start up, what could be my issue?

[#boosted]

Its a hub motor (scooter, sorry) and i get a strong cogging on start up as seen in video. No load, no cogging, Light throttle = less/no cogging. Soon as the motor is spinning the cogging is gone but i feel as though its not running perfectly as it has a slight hesitation from a roll on.

What could be my issue, i ruled out the motor and wires with hall sensors, the only other problem i see is a bad controller or weak connection with the halls.

 

[fechter]

That happens when you lose one of the hall signals or if they are swapped. It could also be a bad controller.
Was it working before?

 

[#boosted]

That happens when you lose one of the hall signals or if they are swapped. It could also be a bad controller.
Was it working before?

Do you think i am losing power from this issue, or is it likely still putting out full power when rolling and not cogging?

Its a brand new controller/hub board setup on fairly new motors. Decided to just replace the motor as i got it cheap ($100) but turns out that did nothing. I will replace the 75$ controller and update! The hall sensors seem to be hooked up properly, they are the same for the front motor that works but that will be the next step if the controller doesnt work

 

[fechter]

Yes, it won't have full power and the controller will get hot if you are missing a hall signal.
Double check the connections between the motor and controller. Sometimes a pin gets pushed back in the connector body and makes bad contact.

 

[#boosted]

Yes, it won't have full power and the controller will get hot if you are missing a hall signal.
Double check the connections between the motor and controller. Sometimes a pin gets pushed back in the connector body and makes bad contact.

I triple checked all connections, one of them was loose when I tried putting it back together but I crimped and re connected everything to make sure all connections were secure. I havent ran into any obvious over heating issues but only rode it like twice ao far.
I hope the controller resolves this issue, I'll update when I swap it out.

 

[#boosted]

Im stumped on what is exactly going on here. I have brand new controllers, swapped the rear motor with a new one and no change, figured i got a faulty controller as its happened before in the past, but nope its still having this issue. Im not sure where to go from here as this controller/motor/display setup is designed to work together and the front motor works flawlessly, very smooth throttle with the halled setup.

Connections are solid from the motor to the controllers. What else am i missing?

 

[fechter]

Was it working before, or is this a new build? Some goofy things can happen when running two controllers off a single throttle. You might try disconnecting the front motor and see if this changes the rear motor.

 

[amberwolf]

I didn't see that you have swapped connection between front and rear motor / controller pairs yet. If you do this, what happens?

If the problem moves, it's probably a controller-side issue. If it doesn't, it's a motor-side issue.

Controller side issues can be the controller itself, or the wiring between motor/controller connector and controller, or any of the control signals going to the controller.

Motor side issues could be the motor, or the wiring between motor/controller connector and motor.


For single-throttle control of two independent controllers that use a single battery or other system ground, running 5v and ground only from one controller, and signal to both, will help reduce ground loop situations and undesirable operations.

 

[#boosted]

I didn't see that you have swapped connection between front and rear motor / controller pairs yet. If you do this, what happens?

If the problem moves, it's probably a controller-side issue. If it doesn't, it's a motor-side issue.

Controller side issues can be the controller itself, or the wiring between motor/controller connector and controller, or any of the control signals going to the controller.

Motor side issues could be the motor, or the wiring between motor/controller connector and motor.


For single-throttle control of two independent controllers that use a single battery or other system ground, running 5v and ground only from one controller, and signal to both, will help reduce ground loop situations and undesirable operations.

Did this once already but tried again today and it transfered to the front motor instead of the rear.....

But what gets me is that i have 2 brand new controllers and they are both not working but acting slightly different. One sems to cog a little more, the other seems to just full cut out and back in but both do not give full power. Tested the other motor and it works great, pulls strong front or rear doesnt matter if i have the "good working" controller on it.

I dont think its neccesary to buy a third controller.... what else could be causing this issue thats tied to the controller, the throttle? Thats also new but maybe it was faulty from factory im not sure.

UPDATE: see below post

 

[#boosted]

Was it working before, or is this a new build? Some goofy things can happen when running two controllers off a single throttle. You might try disconnecting the front motor and see if this changes the rear motor.

This is a "new build" basically updated controllers and display/throttle swap that is 100% OEM for these motors on a different scooter frame.

The cogging switched from the rear, to the front now when i swapped controllers, although i have 2 brand new rear motor controllers so i got to test both and they are similar in symtoms.

Im not sure whats going on here because it is 100% not the motor and it pulls strong with the healthy controller but im wondering if i should purchase a third controller, however im doubtful the 2 i have both came faulty brand new.

Even though the symptoms are following the controller, what else could this be? Throttle and display are brand new as well.

UPDATE - I got it to work perfect but only in reverse orientation (swapping the 3 phase connection's), why is that, and how can i fix it because the brake rotar wont allow for an easy swap....

Another note: The motor has a slight hesitation/brake effect with throttle onset, but quickly disappears. If i dont let go completly of thwe throttle and get back into it, it wont do this.

 

[fechter]

If the motor is running backward, you can make it go forward by swapping two phase wires and swap the hall sensor wires. You may have to go through trial and error on the hall sensor wires to make it run properly. It seems like the new controllers don't have the same wire color matching as the old one. Sometimes you can open the controller and see where the wires are attached to the board and compare to the one that's working. There seems to be no standard for the phase/hall wire colors and they can be randomly assigned.

The hesitation issue may be some kind of braking feature. I have one scooter that does something like this. I was never able to get rid of it and just had to learn to work the throttle around it. If I'm coasting along and barely give some throttle, it goes into a braking mode.

 

[#boosted]

If the motor is running backward, you can make it go forward by swapping two phase wires and swap the hall sensor wires. You may have to go through trial and error on the hall sensor wires to make it run properly. It seems like the new controllers don't have the same wire color matching as the old one. Sometimes you can open the controller and see where the wires are attached to the board and compare to the one that's working. There seems to be no standard for the phase/hall wire colors and they can be randomly assigned.

The hesitation issue may be some kind of braking feature. I have one scooter that does something like this. I was never able to get rid of it and just had to learn to work the throttle around it. If I'm coasting along and barely give some throttle, it goes into a braking mode.

I think you are right on all accounts from what i can see. Swapping the phases i can get it to rotate forward but it has a cogging issue every time, with both motors. I tried every possible combination of the 3 phase wires. This will be an issue because the rotor is on its intended side so not making it easily swappable.

These controllers dont allow for zero regenerative braking and i think this is whats causing the hesitation/slight motor brake before throttle kicks in but it could also be my (newly released) trigger throttle, instead of the highly praised thumb throttle variants.

At least i made some head way, i appreciate the help from this forum it surly has helped!

PS: To see the increased performance see this thread, post 15

Dragy 0-54mph, Mantis 10 pro, 96v with modded stock controller

9-F-ZCO7_xE

endless-sphere.com

 

[fechter]

If you can make it run smoothly backwards you should be able to make it run smoothly forward.
Swap the phase wires once then you may need to try every combination of hall sensor wires to get it smooth.

 

[#boosted]

If you can make it run smoothly backwards you should be able to make it run smoothly forward.
Swap the phase wires once then you may need to try every combination of hall sensor wires to get it smooth.

Thats what i thought, but i tried every combination of the phase wires multiple times with both motors and i could only get it to run smoothly in reverse so i swapped motors and eventually just ran with it. Swapping halls may be the answer but thats 5 wires and they are a lot smaller and more of a pain to work with.

 

[amberwolf]

If you don't also swap halls after swapping phases, you probably won't be able to find the right phase/hall combo. There are only three hall wires to swap (you never want to swap the power and ground wires unless you like replacing blown parts ).

If you have done both, trying at least the 6 complete possible combinations, and possibly the 36 total rotational combinations (which are just six rotated sets of the 6 combinations, so not normally necessary to try), and it still doesn't work, then perhaps they didn't place the hall sensors neutrally (centered) relative to the phases, so it has advanced or retarded timing depending on the phase/hall wiring order, and so behaves differently (if the controller doesn't know about the timing, and doesn't have a timing angle setting to compensate for it).

 

[TommyCat]

This chart may make it easier for a (relatively...?) painless reverse of direction... use the instructions on the lower right-hand box.

Regards,
T.C.