Have you seen the Zombie 222 - Electric Mustang 0-60 1.9 sec

My dream would be a P90D with the actual battery replaced by the Lonestar true 100C battery witch would cut the weight of the car by half... then you remove every unnecessary accessories that add weight to the Tesla.. Then it would do under 10sec on the 1/4 mile for sure!

This mean a battery of just above 125 pounds to replace the 90kWh heavy battery. :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

Doc
 
Hillhater said:
Tc, it depends what you want your EV to do.
Most DIY folk are looking to build a low cost commuter or fun car that doesn't need gas to keep it moving.
If they had the money, and wanted performance they would probably all buy Tesla's
If you are set on performance then there are options even for a Leaf...
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=63982&start=0
And I'm sure there will be similar "hot rod" mods for Spark drive trains too.
Please be real, we all know Z22 can only do 50 miles at a steady, cruise. If he uses any of that potential performance, he would suck that 17 kWhr pack dry before he got to the end of the street !
...and if he put a Lifepo4 pack in Z22 he would not be able to get anything like the performance he has.
The only advantage Lifepo4 has is availability, and ease of construction. In nearly all other metrics of battery performance it has been superceeded.

Hey HH Lifepo4 are still fairly bomb proof and if you bottom balance off the bat you can run them without a BMS. You are right it really depends what you want from a EV car, speed or economy, I think once AC motors and controllers get more common the price will come down I really love my HPEV twin ACx35 at 165Hp and 190 ft/lb and 60Kg its not a bad package for direct drive and the Regen is awesome around town. I can go 0-100Kph in under 50 meters and take the foot and Regen a fair bit back into the pack. :D

Cheers Kiwi
 

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Chalo said:
Funny, I've never heard of it, even though it's right in my town.

I guess that's because it's just another ludicrously expensive, dangerous, socially irresponsible toy for rich guys who don't work for their money. That puts it outside my home territory, regardless of location.

debbie-downer-does-not-like.jpg
 
Hillhater said:
Please be real, we all know Z22 can only do 50 miles at a steady, cruise. If he uses any of that potential performance, he would suck that 17 kWhr pack dry before he got to the end of the street !

I'm aware of its ability to suck down its available charge in mere seconds. Still, 17 kWh / 50 miles range = 340 Wh/mi for the Zombie 222. This 340 Wh/mi is from a 3,500 lb pig of a Mustang conversion with thick, sticky, lossy drag radials, the aerodynamics of a brick, and a big, lossy differential designed to handle more than the 1800 lb-ft of torque this beast can put out. The 2,940 lb 1st gen Nissan Leaf still needs like 250-300 Wh/mile cruising on the highway at 60-70 mph with its economy-oriented tires. Intuitively, I can tell that the Leaf's aero drag isn't a whole lot better than the Mustang's given this comparison... probably no more than a 25% improvement for the Leaf in CdA value over this brick of a musclecar. The Leaf's CdA is probably around 7.0 sq ft versus roughly 9.0 for the classic Mustang(don't have the frontal area for either memorized but do know their drag coefficients for their stock forms), and their weights are close.

...and if he put a Lifepo4 pack in Z22 he would not be able to get anything like the performance he has.
The only advantage Lifepo4 has is availability, and ease of construction. In nearly all other metrics of battery performance it has been superceeded.

True, but 500 lbs of cheapo CALB LiFePO4 CA cells can still yield 200 horsepower reliably and repeatedly. That's plenty for an electric drive. The Leaf has roughly half of that amount of power and it can do 0-60 mph in 9 seconds. A light weight sub 2,500 lb conversion with dual motors could be made to run 12s in the 1/4 mile off of 200 battery horsepower(look at the AC Propulsion TZero). For any A to B commuter, this is more than enough performance, and still fares well for a sports car.

There exists even better batteries for a drag racing application than the Zombie 222 has in it at the moment, but I think that Mr. Medford and Mr. Wayland are at a point where they don't have enough controller or motor in that car to make use of all of that power a 200C battery can deliver, even though their system has plenty of power generated. A Soliton Shiva and THREE Netgain WarP 11 HVs might now be necessary to push this tech to its performance limits in a street legal automobile.

I like to imagine what a sub 2,500 lb AWD purpose built machine with a sub 3.5 sq ft CdA body, with 1,200 horsepower at the wheels and 5,000 lb-ft of motor torque would look like... If I had the money, I'd try to get something of that sort built...

With 200C batteries, it may now be possible now to build a street legal EV that matches the performance of the fastest street legal gassers, running 6s in the 1/4 mile with 200+ mile trap speeds and sub 1.0 second 0-60 times, for potentially less money than the fastest gassers took to build but still at least a six-figure sum none-the-less...

Currently, street legal EVs are flirting with the high 9s, and they aren't even using the best solutions available, but is still an expensive and heroic effort the same. If given the resources, I know Wayland and Medford could do much better than 9s, but they probably won't be doing it in a heavy tank of a musclecar.
 
I think DC brush motors are at there limits AC will be the go. :mrgreen:

Brett"S Radical is doing 9 second 1/4 miles and his biggest problem is traction he is wheel spinning the first 1/8 of a mile.

Cheers Kiwi

[youtube]RKKvN5ERw90[/youtube]
 
kiwiev said:
I think DC brush motors are at there limits AC will be the go. :mrgreen:

Brett"S Radical is doing 9 second 1/4 miles and his biggest problem is traction he is wheel spinning the first 1/8 of a mile.

This is why I like AWD. It's easier to keep traction when putting ridiculous levels of torque to the ground.

DC motors make the best torque per amp for a given size. I don't think they will fall out of favor any time soon with the drag racers, although more AC motors will be used in even sporty conversions as the price drops and accessibility improves. The brushes are ultimately the limit of today's series DC motors. The ones in the Zombie 222 and White Zombie glow red hot when pushed to their limits.

I prefer brushless AC myself, more for reasons of reducing maintenance, than acceleration. It's also easier to get a high rpm and wide power-band with AC. My conversion has a DC motor in it because I couldn't afford an AC drive when I designed it, and when I was finally ready to put a motor in it, HPEVS didn't have their drive units cheaply, widely, or readily available as they are today, otherwise, I'd probably have gone with a $5,000 80 horsepower HPEVS AC50 instead of modified Prestolite MTC4001 and Soliton 1, and took the performance reduction and slight price increase for the promise of a no-maintenance solution.

But there are reasons Wayland and Medford went with DC. His twin WarP 11" HVs with Zilla 2k EHV controllers can put out 800 horsepower and 1,800 lb-ft from 2,000A. I don't know of any AC setup of the same weight that can do this level of torque, even if you can get higher continuous and peak horsepower per pound out of AC today. Three WarP 11" HVs at 3,000A each with a Soliton Shiva could likely do 4,000-5,000 lb-ft of torque(depends on what their saturation curve looks like. a lot of weird and unpredictable things happen to a series DC motor's performance curves at high currents). At 3,000A, a WarP 11" HV is probably not doing much better than 50% efficiency and is at any given time about to turn into a fireball. :lol:
 
Hey Toecutter what vehicle did you convert????

I prefer brushless AC myself, more for reasons of reducing maintenance, than acceleration. It's also easier to get a high rpm and wide power-band with AC. My conversion has a DC motor in it because I couldn't afford an AC drive when I designed it, and when I was finally ready to put a motor in it, HPEVS didn't have their drive units cheaply, widely, or readily available as they are today, otherwise, I'd probably have gone with a $5,000 80 horsepower HPEVS AC50 instead of modified Prestolite MTC4001 and Soliton 1, and took the performance reduction and slight price increase for the promise of a no-maintenance solution.

But there are reasons Wayland and Medford went with DC. His twin WarP 11" HVs with Zilla 2k EHV controllers can put out 800 horsepower and 1,800 lb-ft from 2,000A. I don't know of any AC setup of the same weight that can do this level of torque, even if you can get higher continuous and peak horsepower per pound out of AC today. Three WarP 11" HVs at 3,000A each with a Soliton Shiva could likely do 4,000-5,000 lb-ft of torque(depends on what their saturation curve looks like. a lot of weird and unpredictable things happen to a series DC motor's performance curves at high currents). At 3,000A, a WarP 11" HV is probably not doing much better than 50% efficiency and is at any given time about to turn into a fireball. :lol:[/quote]

Bretts Radical is only 300Kw and it is not too far behind the Zombie 222 in performance I think big horsepower and torque is only part of the mix :idea: And Radical is a street car in the USA and Europe.

Cheers Kiwi
 
kiwiev said:
Hey Toecutter what vehicle did you convert????

I purchased, restored, and converted someones unfinished orphan gasoline-powered 1969 Triumph GT6+ resto-mod project, fitted onto a sturdier Triumph GT6 Mk III chassis with a TR6 differential:

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=67321

I'm going for acceleration, top speed, efficiency, AND range, for not a whole lot of money, hence my choice of donor. I designed this conversion more than 10 years ago and acquired the donor in 2005. It was originally intended to get 70+ miles highway range on AGM lead acid batteries, but the only lead pack that was ever used in it was a 48V test pack of worn out flooded Trojan golf cart batteries ready for the scrap heap(they sagged to 20V at a 200A load and the slippery featherweight still reached 35 mph in a half of a mile like that...), and now it has a much lighter and more powerful 208V 100AH CALB CA100FI pack in it. I've got less than $15,000 invested in it, the LiFePO4 batteries being the biggest expense, restoration the second biggest expense, but it now runs and drives and peels out in all gears, and I just need to get it legal. The problem is that I only get 2 weeks a year to play with it.

I can see dual Netgain 7" motors, a removed transmission, and 12s at the drag strip in this car's future using my cheapo CALB batteries, but for now, I just have to get everything in order. Current setup probably will mean 14s at the drag strip, but I won't be stopping there.

Bretts Radical is only 300Kw and it is not too far behind the Zombie 222 in performance I think big horsepower and torque is only part of the mix :idea: And Radical is a street car in the USA and Europe.

Cheers Kiwi

I wasn't able to view that video. The one I found, linked below, had the Radical pulling a 10.9 compared to the Zombie 222's 10.2.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKKvN5ERw90

More than a half of a second of difference in a quarter mile drag race means that figuratively, someone's doors got blown off.

Don't get me wrong, that Radical is a thing of beauty, but to MATCH the Zombie 222 in straight-line performance, judging by power to weight ratio and performance in the video I was able to find, while assuming traction is not the car's limiting factor in that video(which it may have been), I can tell he's going to need about 450 kW assuming a motor curve that stays proportional in shape to the curve of the current AC setup, just to match the Zombie 222...

That extra 0.7 seconds makes a significant difference in power/torque requirements, and 300 kW of AC motor/inverter and 300 kW of DC motor/controller are not created equal...
 
Yes you are right Toecutter

There is a sub 10 second video around some where just can't find it right now sorry

But bear in mind the radical is set up for circuit racing with no gearbox and Zombie can have muti gearboxes added. I know the cost of the 2 cars is very similar,
as you have said DC motors are good for high torque but no good for any long runs even with air blowers.

Once the AC controllers drop in in value I think they will become more popular, I have driven my Sonic for 2 1/2 hours up and down my dirt road range testing and it never got above 120 C motor and 52 C controller.

Thats a bummer you only get 2 weeks a year to play with your GT6 (Nice car by the way :D )

Here is another Video note still no gearbox

[youtube]FTU8eGYTiPA[/youtube]

Cheers Kiwi
 
It is the embedding of the videos that is making it impossible for me to view them. I keep browser plug-ins to a minimum for a variety of reasons. A link would be appreciated.
 
riba2233 said:
Press quote and you'll see it.

Already tried that, but the link given wasn't a usable url. Thanks anyway though, because you telling me this made me try again and think to go to youtube and put the value listed in the post as the end of a url to any random video I clicked on, and I was able to view them after that.


That Radical is fast... but the Zombie 222 would eat it for breakfast and crap it back out before dinner. AC conversions are catching up, that being said.
 
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