Having Some Problems with My Falco 500 Watt Kit...

[Ottodog]

About 3 weeks ago I purchased a 500 Watt, 36V, Falco Kit for my Hybrid 21 Speed. The Dealer I bought it from had some trouble getting it to work and I ended up having to drive it back there (45 minutes each way) twice for various problems. Finally got it home and discovered that it cuts off after 20 mph in every mode including Pedelec UNLESS you put it into "Turbo" Mode. That is not how it's supposed to work. Turbo mode is supposed to be used sparingly in extreme situations, and is not a mode that is standard. I've been told by other Falco owners that they don't use it at all.

I emailed the company and the owner called me. I had to purchase a $50.00 Dongle in order to access the settings and I had it sent overnight to me at my expense. I Spent the better part of my Afternoon today with Cameron tweaking the settings. Made absolutely no difference. The owner and lead engineer Rakesh are supposed to call me tomorrow afternoon, but quite honestly, I'm losing faith this thing is ever going to work right. It seems as if they have changed it so that now it can't go faster than 20 mph in any mode other than Turbo mode. Maybe a Lawyer inspired CYA move? If so, that's very misleading. I paid a lot extra to get the unrestricted version and it seems that is either not what I got, or mine is horribly screwed up. Having to put my bike into this Turbo Mode decreases my range to about 10 miles if I'm lucky and I know that can't be right. I got so frustrated with it the other day I actually went to an e-bike dealer and rode some new e-bikes just to see if the way the Falco kit is behaving is normal. It is NOT. All of the 28 mph e-bikes I rode were able to get there easily and consistently without having to invoke any special modes.

So that's where I'm at. I thought I'd document it since very few people seem to actually own one of these kits. If you do own a Falco Kit I'd appreciate hearing your experiences with it. Needless to say, I'm not having a great experience so far, and it is my understanding it can't be returned once it's been installed.

I still have some hope that Rakesh will be able to do something and I'll definitely post a follow up if anything good happens.

 

[arkmundi]

I thought the Falco Warranty was for 5 years, one of the perks for the price?

 

[Ottodog]

I thought the Falco Warranty was for 5 years, one of the perks for the price?

Yeah, arkmundi. I have a bone to pick with you! I bought this partially on your recommendation. :wink:

The warranty won't do me much good if they can't fix it. I'm getting a sinking feeling they have disabled any speeds over 20 mph in all but Turbo Mode. Which nets you about 10 miles of range on a full charge... Not what I wanted and certainly not what I thought "unrestricted" meant. At this point I'm hoping it's all just a horrible mistake and somehow they've given me the wrong version. I'll know more tomorrow.

 

[wesnewell]

If you paid more than $250 for a 36V 500W kit less battery, you paid too much. Generally, 20mph is about top speed for a 36V 500W system. I'm not familiar with the falco system, nor would I ever buy one at the ridiculous prices they charge.

 

[d8veh]

Which Falco battery do you have? If you have their small bottle battery or their 36v 9ah one, you can't expect any more than 10 miles out of it at speeds up to 28 mph. That would be the same for any motor. If you go fast, you use up a your battery quickly. A 1000w motor would give about 28 mph and exhaust a 324wh battery (36v 9Ah) in 20 minutes, which is just under 10 miles. You would get about 30 miles if you stick to an average speed of 12 mph and pedal.

 

[neptronix]

I warned you guys about this motor long ago.. it is an intentionally extremely proprietary locked box and you could have bought motors that are more efficient for a fifth of the price.. sold on false pretenses that it was superior because of some of it's proprietary features.. which was a complete load of BS.

I almost got suckered into buying a bionx kit when i got into this hobby and didn't make that expensive mistake, thankfully. Chalk your experience up to a learning opportunity, enjoy the motor for what it is, or pass it on to another sucker..

 

[ambroseliao]

Ebikes have a U.S. Federal speed limit of 20 mph and anything exceeding that is legal only for off road use. It sounds as if Falco overcame this with a Turbo button. Simple enough. Any ebike that exceeds 20 mph out of the box is not technically street legal.

 

[TheBeastie]

Yeah I agree with d8veh, you can't outrun the laws of psychics, speed kills range.
I watched a review on the Falco kit and it looks pretty cool to me. If your not into DIY ebike kits then it looks like a good quality kit if you got the spare cash.
I like how its got angled rim spokes holes, thats pretty premium quality effort to put into a bike wheel.
Its also says it supports cassette which is kind of unheard of in DD motors unless I haven't been keeping up with the news. The motor looks stylish as well.
If you really want to squeeze a good deal out of them tell them you demand a extra Falco battery pack at only cost so you charge at work because you had no idea that going faster would kill the range. Alternatively just put a chunkier battery in a pannier bag in the back.
I say just bare with Falco and get your issues resolved.

 

[ambroseliao]

...you can't outrun the laws of psychics...

:lol:

 

[Ottodog]

My main gripe isn't with the range but with the fact that it cuts off at 20 mph even in Pedelec Mode. It's not supposed to do that. I have the off road version. It simply runs out of power unless you put it into Turbo mode. Why isn't level assist 4 full power like Turbo mode? It makes no sense. I rode a Curry Izip Dash with a 500 watt motor and it cruised at 28 mph no problem with no special modes. Same sized Motor. I am thinking perhaps the Falco "500 watt Motor" is not as powerful as other 500 watt motors, or the specs are too generous.

This morning I got an email from Rakesh and he sounds like he's basically saying this is as good as it gets and that I probably need the 750 watt motor. Not sure I want to put any more money into this bike at this point. I probably need to upgrade to the 48V battery as well which is even more money. I have a conference call with Falco at 2:00 p.m. and we'll see what happens.

 

[999zip999]

Maybe the reason it cuts power off at 20mph it's the law.

 

[ambroseliao]

My main gripe isn't with the range but with the fact that it cuts off at 20 mph even in Pedelec Mode. It's not supposed to do that.

It doesn't cut off in Turbo mode, correct? Just put the bike in Turbo mode and then ride it that way all the time. What's difficult about that?

 

[Jonathan in Hiram]

My main gripe isn't with the range but with the fact that it cuts off at 20 mph even in Pedelec Mode. It's not supposed to do that. I have the off road version. It simply runs out of power unless you put it into Turbo mode. Why isn't level assist 4 full power like Turbo mode? It makes no sense. I rode a Curry Izip Dash with a 500 watt motor and it cruised at 28 mph no problem with no special modes. Same sized Motor. I am thinking perhaps the Falco "500 watt Motor" is not as powerful as other 500 watt motors, or the specs are too generous.
.

Have you put the bike in Turbo mode and then ridden it just 20 mph to see what the range is then?

Bear in mind that 28 mph takes close to twice the watt hours per mile that 20 mph does on a mountain bike type setup so even theoretically you are only going to get about half the range at the faster speed than the slower one.

Does the pedelec function work in Turbo mode or is it throttle only?

 

[Ottodog]

My main gripe isn't with the range but with the fact that it cuts off at 20 mph even in Pedelec Mode. It's not supposed to do that.

It doesn't cut off in Turbo mode, correct? Just put the bike in Turbo mode and then ride it that way all the time. What's difficult about that?

No it doesn't cut off, but Rakesh said it's not good for the Motor to run in Turbo mode all the time. Said I'd probably start blowing battery fuses etc. I just hooked the bike up to the computer and it definitely is saying in the settings that it's Speed Restricted to 20 mph instead of the 30 mph option. So maybe it's something as easy as that. I was told those settings have been disabled though...

It almost sounds like they are wanting me to upgrade to the 750 watt motor. Maybe I'm just expecting too much of the 500? All I know is the 500 watt motor on the IZip bikes can do 28 mph all day long. I'm willing to throw some more money at it I guess if they are willing to take back the 500 watt and exchange it. I guess we'll see. He is officially 10 minutes late for our conference call... I guess I'll call them. I will report back what happens. 8)

 

[Ottodog]

My main gripe isn't with the range but with the fact that it cuts off at 20 mph even in Pedelec Mode. It's not supposed to do that.

It doesn't cut off in Turbo mode, correct? Just put the bike in Turbo mode and then ride it that way all the time. What's difficult about that?

No it doesn't cut off, but Rakesh said it's not good for the Motor to run in Turbo mode all the time. Said I'd probably start blowing battery fuses etc. I just hooked the bike up to the computer and it definitely is saying in the settings that it's Speed Restricted to 20 mph instead of the 30 mph option. So maybe it's something as easy as that. I was told those settings have been disabled though...

It almost sounds like they are wanting me to upgrade to the 750 watt motor. Maybe I'm just expecting too much of the 500? All I know is the 500 watt motor on the IZip bikes can do 28 mph all day long. I'm willing to throw some more money at it I guess if they are willing to take back the 500 watt and exchange it. I guess we'll see. He is officially 10 minutes late for our conference call... I guess I'll call them. I will report back what happens. 8)

Okay. That was the problem. My motor came from the Factory with the Speed Restriction turned on. We turned that off and now it works perfectly. I knew it had to be something easy like that... I'm glad I persisted. It feels like a completely different bike now. So smooth, and so powerful. I'll give it a good run tomorrow and I'll report back, but it's looking really good right now.

Note: Props to Rakesh and Falco for being willing to do whatever it takes to get this right. He said I could still upgrade to the 750 motor and 48V battery, but I'm not so sure I'll need to now. This thing is flying now.

 

[arkmundi]

Glad you worked it out and that its performing the way you expected. I'm waiting for more first hand reports on the Falco before tweaking my Top 10 list. I believe there is much opportunity for improving eBike tech and Falco is one company that is trying. Albeit as a new company, there can be growing pains. Best.

 

[Ottodog]

Glad you worked it out and that its performing the way you expected. I'm waiting for more first hand reports on the Falco before tweaking my Top 10 list. I believe there is much opportunity for improving eBike tech and Falco is one company that is trying. Albeit as a new company, there can be growing pains. Best.

Yeah, I'd keep it there. You can't judge it by how it has been performing. Once we got it into Cruise Mode it's like a whole new bike. The thing is amazing and very smooth. Great power. The Torque sensor is very sensitive now that it's not being harnessed by software restrictions.

Unfortunately, it appears there's still a problem with my Motor that won't allow it to stay in "Cruise" mode, so every time I turn it off it reverts back to Non-Cruise mode. Rakesh is going to update the firmware next week to make sure it stays in Cruise Mode permanently. They are shipping me the USB to Serial converter as we speak. Until then I'll need to connect up to the software and put it into cruise mode manually each time I want to ride it. So, still have a couple of problems to work out, but in the mean time I have a workaround.

 

[Ade]

Glad you worked it out and that its performing the way you expected. I'm waiting for more first hand reports on the Falco before tweaking my Top 10 list. I believe there is much opportunity for improving eBike tech and Falco is one company that is trying. Albeit as a new company, there can be growing pains. Best.

Yeah, I'd keep it there. You can't judge it by how it has been performing. Once we got it into Cruise Mode it's like a whole new bike. The thing is amazing and very smooth. Great power. The Torque sensor is very sensitive now that it's not being harnessed by software restrictions.

Unfortunately, it appears there's still a problem with my Motor that won't allow it to stay in "Cruise" mode, so every time I turn it off it reverts back to Non-Cruise mode. Rakesh is going to update the firmware next week to make sure it stays in Cruise Mode permanently. They are shipping me the USB to Serial converter as we speak. Until then I'll need to connect up to the software and put it into cruise mode manually each time I want to ride it. So, still have a couple of problems to work out, but in the mean time I have a workaround.

So the firmware restriction isn't just limiting top speed but tweaking other parameters that determine motor behavior as well? I mean, if was just a top speed limiter it shouldn't make a difference how "smooth" the bike is.

 

[arkmundi]

You're in a good position to coax some changes from Falco, from the ES perspective that open is better. An all proprietary approach is not good for either the company or its customers. Take the Tesla approach of making it open. In particular, the controller needs to be programmable by the customer - everything you've been discussing. And it should be straightforward to do, and relatively easy.

 

[Ottodog]

You're in a good position to coax some changes from Falco, from the ES perspective that open is better. An all proprietary approach is not good for either the company or its customers. Take the Tesla approach of making it open. In particular, the controller needs to be programmable by the customer - everything you've been discussing. And it should be straightforward to do, and relatively easy.

I think it's a good company and I'm happy with the after the sale support I'm getting. So much so, I've toned down the Title of this thread. I'm feeling a lot more positive about it all now. I'm very impressed with Rakesh. I think they'll do whatever it takes to make you happy.

On the other hand, I shouldn't have had to jump through so many technical hoops to get this to work right. I daresay a lot of people would probably have given up and just lived with the 20 mph limit. The very people in this thread who are passionate and highly knowledgeable about these things were basically telling me it was that way "because of the law" or to "just leave it in Turbo Mode all the time", "you can't outrun the laws of physics". If I'd listened to those people I'd still be screwed. Even Falco didn't believe me at first. It really makes me wonder how many non technical people bought these kits and returned them out of frustration.

I hope they get it together because when it works it's a great Kit. On par with any of the expensive e-bikes I've been auditioning lately. Might even be slightly faster at the top end and slightly Torquier at the low end (except for the Emotion Nitro which has a geared motor). I like that you don't lose throttle with Pedelec like you do on many e-bikes. There is a lot to like about this Kit and I'd probably have bought two of them if this first one had worked great out of the box. Now I'll admit, I'm wary to go through this again. I'm leaning towards a fully built and tested e-bike for the next one. Probably the iZip E3 Dash. If I do, I'll be sure to post a comparison between the two.

 

[miro13car]

Don't you think it has a lot to do how FALCO dealers are trained /or lack of training/
It is the second time I am reading FALCO dealers/sellers clueless about how to set up FALCO.
Ottodog
Please, report here about your rides on FALCO.

 

[arkmundi]

Again, new company and there are going to be startup issues. I'm sure that over time the quality of product coming from the company and its dealers will improve. Falco does train its dealers in the the tech. They've got a good product at a fair price and have established procedure to insure a safe, fast & fun ride for its customers. They're responding to issues. Ottodog's issue seems resolved for the moment. But.... where was your dealer in this? Seems you were talking directly with Falco. Did you abandon the dealer or what?

 

[miro13car]

Exactely,
what help did you get from your bike shop dealer?

 

[Ottodog]

Again, new company and there are going to be startup issues. I'm sure that over time the quality of product coming from the company and its dealers will improve. Falco does train its dealers in the the tech. They've got a good product at a fair price and have established procedure to insure a safe, fast & fun ride for its customers. They're responding to issues. Ottodog's issue seems resolved for the moment. But.... where was your dealer in this? Seems you were talking directly with Falco. Did you abandon the dealer or what?

Exactly,
what help did you get from your bike shop dealer?

Yeah. I kind of felt bad for the dealer to tell you the truth. He didn't charge me anything to install it and he seemed a little out of his depth once things started going wrong. He's not an engineer. He's not even a bike shop. They sell Ski's.

The biggest problem is, I got tired of schlepping my Bike to San Mateo in the back of my Car. I've already made 3 trips and it's a 45 minute drive each way. With all the tweaking we've been doing, it wouldn't have been practical to have to drive over there every time we do a new change. Rakesh sent me the Dongle they use to program it and now we are working directly with each other. It's a lot easier. Rakesh, the owner is extremely easy to work with and I'm happy to just do it myself.

I thought you guys might like to have a look at it in it's current state (pun intended). Just ordered some Schwalbe Marathon Tires and an 11-32 Freewheel.

 

[Ottodog]

Ottodog
Please, report here about your rides on FALCO.

As far as the ride goes, it's very, very, fast. I can do 35 mph with it on a slight downhill and then my bike runs out of gear (I'm upgrading to an 11 tooth freewheel soon). It'll definitely do 30 mph easily under hard pedaling.