Headway Group Purchase

bikeelectric said:
I have been using the 2 amp 48 volt charger that I purchased in the group buy and it has been working fine. I am curious - how high an amperage can you put into a Headway 48 volt 10 Ah pack ? Is the limiting factor heating of the battery pack ? Or what the BMS will handle ?
Click to expand...

Spec sheet says you can charge up to 2C, but I would be surprised if you didn't get some heating at that rate. I think DocBass said he was charging at 1C and didn't see any heating. So 10A or less should be fine. Closer to 5A if you want to be conservative.
 
julesa said:
bikeelectric said:
I have been using the 2 amp 48 volt charger that I purchased in the group buy and it has been working fine. I am curious - how high an amperage can you put into a Headway 48 volt 10 Ah pack ? Is the limiting factor heating of the battery pack ? Or what the BMS will handle ?
Click to expand...

Spec sheet says you can charge up to 2C, but I would be surprised if you didn't get some heating at that rate. I think DocBass said he was charging at 1C and didn't see any heating. So 10A or less should be fine. Closer to 5A if you want to be conservative.
Click to expand...

I looked at the link you posted for chargers but didn't see any prices on the webpage ? Did you order from them direct and what size charger ?
 
I have the Headway 10A cells with the female threading. They are M6 or 6 mm.

by dnmun » Wed Jun 03, 2009 4:38 pm
> i have lost track of the technical drawing of the 10Ah headway cell. can someone remind me what the diameter of the screw actually is. or can you measure one with a micrometer? i wanna order the lockwasher lugs from mouser and can't remember if they were 3.5mm in diameter or 4 mm diameter. the lockwashers are 3.55mm for the #6 screw and 4.34 for the #8 screw
 
I ordered the Tenergy 01307 24V 3.5A LiFePO4 charger from All-Battery.com through their ebay store. It is CCCV, has a fan and recharged my very depleted Headway battery in about 4 hrs. 45 min. Delivered cost was $42.50. I had used 15.6A out of the nominal 20A pack. I monitored the charging process via the Watts Up meter, and it also showed 425Wh with peaks of 3.77A and 101.7W. The beginning voltage was 25.84 and, with the green LED on it showed 27.27V.

If it is dependable I'll be quite happy.

It was May 24 that I sent my email to Victoria about my bad charger. I have had no reply. I used <chcj55@gmail.com> for her address . If someone has another email address for her please tell me.

I'm in the middle of replacing the masonry chimney for a double wall steel one, and my roof is 12:12 pitch. "On belay?" "Belay on!" I may be slow to reply for a few more days.

Dana
 
dnmun said:
they can't be that large, that's like 1/4", i thought they looked like #8 screw when i saw them, but can't find the technical drawing anymore
Click to expand...

The new blue Headway uses 6M1 bolts - 6mm with a 1mm pitch. These are the same that Thunder Sky uses, and the same diameter/pitch used on the PSI cells.

I use standard 1/4 inch crimp lugs - like the ones available from Lowes / Home Depot / or any hardware store - and they're a perfect fit. One can also use 1/4 inch washers. 6mm is .236 inches, quarter inch is .250 -- Couldn't get much closer if we tried. :)
 
Ya, I'm still waiting, sad to say. Poo happens.

I ordered 1 4820, 1 4810, two cases and two chargers.

It was a lot of money that I really can't spare, not to mention the investment in bike parts just sitting in the garage waiting for batteries.

Patiently,

Bob
 
I ordered a 4810, a 4820, a 48v charger, an extra case in addition to the ones that were included with the packs, and 4 individual cells.

I have received :

4810
4820
48v charger

Still missing:

4 individual screw top cells.
3 cases

It was my understanding that we had some bad cells and that my loose ones were used to replace the bad ones, until the warranty replacements arrived. Lost contact with Rob before those arrived.

My order was in the US portion. I contacted Victoria by email and she says the order has all been sent. Contacting Rob is impossible . . . phones are disconnected and emails don't come back . . . .

AVS
 
It is too bad that someone who actually ordered batteries didn't handle all the distribution. Someone who could respond. I think Josh thought he was reliable. Live and learn. At least you got the big parts of your order. Yes the cases seem to be a lost cause now - no one ever even saw a picture of them - just that they didn't fit. At least they were only $15 if I remember correctly but it sure would have been nice to have them. All the same, the paper and weird asbestos looking cardboard stuff that the packs came packed in is holding up nicely - ha ha !



avsmith66 said:
I ordered a 4810, a 4820, a 48v charger, an extra case in addition to the ones that were included with the packs, and 4 individual cells.

I have received :

4810
4820
48v charger

Still missing:

4 individual screw top cells.
3 cases

It was my understanding that we had some bad cells and that my loose ones were used to replace the bad ones, until the warranty replacements arrived. Lost contact with Rob before those arrived.

My order was in the US portion. I contacted Victoria by email and she says the order has all been sent. Contacting Rob is impossible . . . phones are disconnected and emails don't come back . . . .

AVS
Click to expand...
 
I had a BMS failure on my 4820 pack. Emailed Victoria and she said she would send a replacement. Not sure on the ETA though.

This week I also tried to order the remaining batteries I needed through Victoria for my 22s2p battery I am building for my RMartin EVD and she will no longer return my emails . . . After an $80 UPS quote for 14cells I asked her if there were any slower or cheaper shipping options, and things just fell apart from there. Started with her not returning emails unless I emailed a followup and now after asking for a price list to see if she had anything else a few cohorts might be interested in to help with the shipping costs, she won't even return my emails at all.

Looks like we can get batteries cheaper through EV Components now anyway since they are direct from Headway, and hopefully much less hassle. I'm glad someone stepped up to be a local distributor.

AVS
 
can you explain what is wrong with your 48V BMS?

have you measured the individual cell voltages yet and what charger are you using and what voltage does it pump up to?

thanks to victoria for agreeing to give you a new one. that was nice of her.
 
Well the BMS was working fine one day and appeared completely dead the next(no output). I unhooked the BMS and charged the battery directly(watching it with a meter attached) and the charger cut out at exactly 58.4 and the cells were all evenly balanced. They all settled to 3.4v.

AVS
 
could you measure all the cell voltages down the shunt resistor ladder? was each cell present or did it have an open in the sense wire plug somewhere to cause one to be low and shut down the output?

the 12S BMS seems to be different from the 16S BMS and this is the first problem we have seen in these 16S that i know of, but maybe fritz has a bad 16S BMS but we don't know yet.
 
After I contacted Victoria, she advised me make sure the cells were charged and wait for the new BMS. I already disconnected the BMS so it could not discharge my batteries, and I don't feel comfortable reconnecting a BMS with an issue to my good batteries for testing since it is being replaced.

I thought I remembered reading somewhere that Headway was changing to another BMS as well.


AVS
 
the current BMS won't damage your batteries. even if it has the output shut down, it will still charge through the BMS.

or did your charger not push charge into it while the BMS was connected? that is interesting if that happened.

sounds like a bad contact in the sense wire plug, may actually start working again if you can establish which pin is not making contact and wiggle it some more.
 
Splitting pack
Well I guess I am a little late to this party but I finally am getting around to my 24V-20AH pack. The battery charger appears to work but once the green light comes on the individual batteries have charges ranging from 3.63 to 3.37. I want to split the pack into two 8 cell groups for easier mounting on the trike I am building.
topofbattery.jpg

Here is the top of the battery

I plan on cutting the long bar on the left and reconnecting with some wire and Anderson connectors, For the BMS wires can I do the same thing? Just extend the wires and use power pole connecters to reconnect everything? Is there a better connector to use that will accept multiple wires?

I will be building a couple of fiberglass boxes to put the batteries in.
startbatterybox.jpg

I started out by glueing some MDF together to make the male molds. Once the glue sets I will round the edge and then lay several layers of fiberglass to make the boxes.

Thanks
Rick Wianecki
 
I think your previous statement about 'splitting the pack' might lead one to different assumptions on how you want to split; by puttting 1/2 the current or 1/2 the voltage in each of the sides of the split.

If you were going to split by putting 1/2 of the current on each side, you would have a very complicated, possibly impossible split.

But, if you wish to put 12v on each side, maintain the correct charging wires and have a heavy interpack interconnect, it might be Ok.

Have you road tested your pack yet? Some folks report a low current cutout on the load output of the Headway 24v BMS.
Should load test before modifying, from my experience.

tailwinds

d
 
it seems that several of the people who split their ping packs like that ended up having LVC problems because the extra voltage drop on #7 when the connecting wire was added to the top of #6. try to use 10G wire minimum and see if you can do that. the best ways is split into two 8S1P packs, which would require using something different than the 4 hole connector plates.

but worth a try if you wanna spread the pack around. or buy another 8 cells and go directly to 36V with 12S1P on each side.

dick is not the only person to have problems with that BMS pcb. someone else also had LVC problems but with the 12S version of that 10S pcb with little 2S daughterboard on the side, which may have had bad connections, but may also have been the same thing that plagued dick.

wish we had been able to isolate the cause of these board's failure. you can use the ping v1 signalab BMS too. i paid $36 plus shipping for a 12S ping v1 signalab. the leds on the v2.5 are worth the extra money if you can get ping to sell you one, but he tries to restrict sales of them only to pack sales.
 
Thanks for the replys guys
deardancer3
I have not run the trike under load yet, I was hoping to split the battery up to fit the trike better. I could place the battery in my lap and take it for a spin.
motormounted.jpg

Here is the motor mounted to the frame, Because of the rear suspension I do not have a rack to mount the batteries. I was planning on mounting 8 bateries low on each side of the frame.

dnmun
Good tips, I was reading in the earler posts about the low voltave issue with the BMS, I was hoping for better luck, but I will test it like dd3 sugested first.
If I split the pack into 2-8S1P packs I can make some 2-hole copper connectors that I have seen others make.

Rick
 
dnmun

Ok This is what I am planning to do after the testing goes well.
BatteryTop.jpg

This is how I will modify the top of the battery.
BatteryBottom.jpg

This is what the battery looks like on the bottom.

I will also have to lengthen the wires that go to the BMS

Rick W
 
ok, makes sense, if you keep the length to say 6", double up the 10G, that is 1/4milliohm between the top of 6 and the bottom of 7.

at 30 amps, that will be 7.5mV. so put your sense wire connection right in the middle of the jumpers and there will be 3.75mV more on each of the 2 cells, 6 and 7. should not be too serious
 
Hello,

I'm looking into getting some headway cells through Victoria from Headway. She is very nice and receptive and I understand people here have acquired cells this way in the past. However, the method she instructed me to pay her is by sending money to a bank account in NYC. I just wanted to know if anyone else has done this and if they have had any problems. I would guess everything is fine, but I would like to hear a testimonial first if I can to build up some confidence.

Thanks!
 
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