Helmets Part 1,489,348 - To Wear Or Not To Wear

He's absolutely right about the selling of fear. Toddler helmets for the house, Puleeeese! And helmet laws are stupid, glad I live where it's MY choice. But.....

I'm here blathering on again about helmets because I had one on that day in 1982 and found a new washout in my favorite dirt bike road. Head plowed a furrow in the dirt at 50 mph for about 50 feet before I began to do cartwheels. Came up laughing from that one. Try that bareheaded sometime.

And more recently, I "tested" a regular bike helmet for side impact on a curb. Unfortunately for you folks, I'm still here blathering on and on. The guy is wrong, they do work real good at faster speeds, and with side impacts. My unprotected shoulders got demolished in the same crash. I never got a headache let alone a concussion, but the side of that bike helmet was crushed flat.

Do I crash more with a helmet than without? Maybe. But since I've spent a lifetime proving that I ride to the razor edge on everthing, I'll just wear my helmet.
If you never crash, then go bareheaded if you feel like it. Me, I'm just the next crash about to happen. My windsurfer buddies gave me the surf name Danger Dan immediately.
 
I've gotta ditto dogman about helmets being useful. My best example was also in 1982 in Colo. Springs, on a road bike when I missed a sharp turn going about 30 mph and slammed headlong into a 10-foot chain link fence. The helmet took all the scraping, not me. BTW, it was a MSA helmet, a lot like the Bell Shorty I wear now, not a "bicycle-style" helmet - didn't like them then, don't like them now.

The only way I can see helmets catching on is for riders to see their friends and relatives who don't wear them and have an accident get hurt. That puts the FOG into you, so you start wearing one and get used to it. Or have your kids wear one (obviously, you've got to, also, or it doesn't work) so they grow up with the habit. Legislating helmets leads to big pushback, look at the bikers in this country, they've gotten laws repealed, like the NRA does to gun laws. (no soap box here, just observing people's reactions to being told what is "best" for them, even if it might be). Or, maybe, make them so that they're functional without looking and feeling dorky (I did consider one with the Bluetooth speakers for my MP3 player/phone, but I'm not made of money).

Cameron
 
I quote myself here, as it says enough about what is my personnal opinion about it, and how I see those who want to tell me how to manage my own safety:

MadRhino said:
I have to admit that I don't wear a helmet most of the time. I have a downhill specific helmet, but even in the mountain, I wear it only when I'm gonna try at crazy jumps and race with the kids.

Once, when I was coming from a mountain trail and landed very fast on the first paved street, then had to brake real hard at the trafic light, by the side of a street bike waiting on the corner, the guy stared at me and said: You should wear a helmet. I looked at him and his baby that he had fitted tight in a baby seat on his bike, so I answered: And you should wear a condom. :mrgreen:
 
I never used a helmet, except on the freeway or when racing over 100 MPH. Sue wish I would have worn one when I needed it! :oops: I threw it back and said no thanks. :oops: Twenty minutes later my boss needed a new bike, and I needed a respirator. :lol: Today I would wear a bicycle helmet. I never did, not even when canyon carving on Portrero Rd, on a bicycle. With the advent of high quality helmet cams, dooring laws, and 50 MPH hardtail Ebikes, I'm already looking for one in blue metalflake. 8)
Brian L.
 
Science is great for averages, but what you should actually do depends on your situation. I wear mine most the time due to the speed, it usually being dark, and lack of cyclists on the roads where I live. Drivers just aren't looking. One helmet got crushed already. Didn't save my life but probably saved a concussion and an ambulance ride (expensive).
 
KO'd myself through a full face shoei motorcycle helmet in a dirtbike wreck where I ended up sliding under the back of my own racecar, and hitting the rear differential housing hard enough to break the top of the helmet.

Not even a scratch or bruise on my head/face.


1245814262776.jpg
 
Buddy wore a helmet, close friend.

Got hit (following the rules of the road) by a guy who borrowed his girlfriends car because he couldn't get insurance because he was legally blind.

Smacked the ground, wrecked the helmet.

Got brain damage.

Without a helmet, he'd be dead.

Do what you want, I'll wear a helmet thanks.

Katou
 
I gotta say, I don't agree with making it law, but anyone who has taken a hard hit with a helmet and walked away when they should have been dead will tell you why they still wear one.

My father would either be dead or institutionalized 3x over from wrecks just in the last couple years, but it's your head, your choice.

I'd be really interested to see the studies sited in the presentation and most of the time when something crazy comes out from a study (helmets for cars anyone?) it's usually the study that is skewed or too small of a test group.

Usually when you are looking for one outcome or another, there is always a study or statistic to support it, just comes down to personal experience and common sense. :wink:
 
My sister tried to convince me once that seatbelts were dangerous, especially for the driver. She thought it was some government conspiracy that had us all wearing seatbelts.

She learned the hard way in a low-speed crash in which the steering wheel busted her spleen and almost killed her. She said she was fine and waved off help. Then, because of internal bleeding, got worse quickly.

She spent weeks in the hospital.
 
If we look to the Dutch, we'll see they don't have helmet laws. In large cities like Copenhagen, almost half the city commutes by bike. Yet the rate of head trauma for cyclists is less than that of America. Why? Because they ride safe cruiser bikes. Not only do these slow bikes have big cushy tires, but an upright seating position that makes it hard to fall off. A road bike, with it's skinny tires, high center of gravity, and flat back posture is dangerous compared to these bikes. Also the cycling infrastructure and education in that country is superb.
[youtube]n-AbPav5E5M[/youtube]
Notice no one is wearing helmets? But also notice how they are separated from traffic, and they travel very slowly.

Now, helmet laws would hurt the cyclists in these situations. Yes. But for ebikers and people riding bikes for sport, a helmet really should be a no brainer.
It gets annoying when people discuss helmet laws with out context. Yes they keep people from commuting by bike, but don't use that argument to justify riding a DIY bicycle at 30mph with out a helmet.

On a personal note, a friend of mine has a narcolepsy from a fall off a road bike. I wish people would stop suggesting vintage road bikes as a good choice for commuters. They're unsafe on cracked, pot holed roads. Especially when loaded with school books or groceries. I wish I could've told her to throw some slicks on a old mountain bike. :cry:
 
liveforphysics said:
KO'd myself through a full face shoei motorcycle helmet in a dirtbike wreck where I ended up sliding under the back of my own racecar, and hitting the rear differential housing hard enough to break the top of the helmet.

Not even a scratch or bruise on my head/face.


1245814262776.jpg

Just wanted to say :yonk: thanks for the lovely clear detailed picture Luke i am sure you will see that face appear on many a bodies in weeks/months to come LoL ;-P

Oh...helmets...your mad not too wear one IMHO its no big drama too wear one and could save your life
if an accident happens... be prepared for a crash sometimes you don't know when its going to happen.

KiM
 
Here in nanny-state Australia the cops enforce helmet laws with great zeal. In fact, the best evidence for a decline in cycling to to mandatory helmet laws were seen here in WA.

I had my helmet stolen in Vancouver, so rather than pay $50 for a new one I just rode without one.

All I want is the freedom to choose to wear one, and not get a fine for making that choice.
 
Enforcing these things on adults is kind of stupid, interferes with survival of the fittest (or smartest) :). Same thing with drugs and other fun stuff :)
Seriously though, we should simply use common sense. When I ride leisurely and solely on a dedicated bike path I do not put the helmet on, I really see no need to. But riding on the streets with traffic or MTB singletrack my helmet is always on. My friend crashed in front of me, head first against the solid rock at 20+mph on MTB singletrack in Moab, completely breaking the helmet yet we were able to walk over 10 miles to the trailhead (he broke his wrist, had bad bruises on his face and other minor nasties). I am pretty sure believe the helmet saved his life then.
 
It's easy to quote dozens of "I fell off and might have had brain injury if I wasn't wearing a helmet" stories, we all probably know somebody, who knows somebody else to whom this happened.

Does this mean that bicycle helmets make you safe? No, in fact the guy in the film is right, it doesn't.

Now, before all the howls of anguish start up, I will say right out that anything that protects your head from damage is a good idea. I am not anti-helmet use, if that's what people choose to do. What I would like to try and bring in to the discussion is a bit of balance. Right at the start of that video the guy mentioned fear and risk. These are really, really important factors.

Some of my ex-colleagues in defence research have spent years studying risk and fear, and protective clothing, too. There is one human attribute that is hard-wired in that needs to be taken account of, it's something that we've inherited through evolution as a means to keep us safe. Each and every one of us has a "personal acceptable level of risk". By that I mean that we will all feel happy to accept some risk but will have a point where we decide a risk is unacceptably high and will refuse to accept it. This varies from individual to individual, has evolved to be higher in men than in women (hunters need to accept greater risk than carers) and is something we can't get rid of as it acts at a sub-concious level.

In modern life this "personal acceptable level of risk" shows in different ways to when we were living in less civilised times, when the environment, attack from predators, or other humans, was an everyday threat. A good example is driving a car. Most of us will have an open road cruising speed that we feel comfortable with. What we're subconsciously doing is driving at a speed where we're happy to accept the risk of losing control, collision or whatever. Some of us will drive faster than others, because we have a fair variation in that "personal acceptable level of risk" from one individual to another. If we exceed our acceptable level of risk we start to feel uncomfortable, we may grip the wheel more tightly, need to concentrate harder and find it difficult to do other tasks at the same time, like having a conversation or tuning the radio. Most of will have felt the "in the groove" feeling you get when you're in that risk comfort zone at some time, I'm sure.

OK, so what's this got to do with wearing a bike helmet? The answer is a rather bizarre phenomenon called risk compensation. In its basic form this tends to make us want to maintain the "personal acceptable level of risk" at a personal set point for the activity we're engaged in. One odd side effect of this is that if you make the perception of risk lower, you change behaviour to increase risk-taking and bring the "personal acceptable level of risk" back to its set point. The best proven example is car seat belts. In this country the use of 3 point seat belts were made a legal requirement around 27 years ago. The immediate effect was as expected, deaths and serious injuries to car occupants was reduced. However, over the next few years statisticians started to see a big increase in the number of deaths and injuries occurring to pedestrians and non-car driving road users. What had happened was fairly simple, if not at all obvious at first. Car drivers were bombarded with information that seat belts made them safer, so they started to feel far more safe in their cars than they had previously. This then subconsciously caused them to take more risks in order to get back to that infamous "personal acceptable level of risk". As we've gone on to add more and more safety systems to cars, pedestrian and other road user injuries have continued to climb. Some wags have suggested that the way to get car drivers to be more risk aware is to mandate the fitting of a 6" steel spike to the centre of the steering wheel and remove the drivers seatbelt. There's no doubt that most drivers would slow right down and drive more cautiously if this were mandated, again because of this bizarre risk compensation function we all seem to have to some degree.

My major concern over bicycle helmets is that, whilst some are pretty good, the majority are little more than a fashion statement. Most urban cyclists around the world travel at speeds little different to a jogger, so logic suggests that if we are going to mandate the wearing of helmets it should just be for cyclists, but for joggers and runners too. I used to ride a motorcycle without a helmet, when it was legal here to do so. I joined the Motorcycle Action Group here (once chaired by my ex-wife, as it happens) to protest against the helmet law 40 years ago. I wouldn't even dream of not wearing a motorcycle helmet now; as I've got older my "personal acceptable level of risk" has dropped to a lower level than it was when I was a teenager. I choose not to wear a bicycle helmet, although that may change as I get older. At the moment, riding around a fairly quiet rural area at modest speeds I don't feel any need to wear one, plus I think the current drop of designs are fairly unattractive and of dubious protective value (a view shared by my ex-colleagues who designed soldiers head gear). The majority seem to be a masterpiece of fashion marketing and are simply a way of trying to extract money from consumers with over-stated risks and protection factors.

As long as we have robust and honest information on both relative risk and helmet protection qualities, together with the freedom to choose, then I'll be happy. If bike helmets are mandated then I am certain that it will put some people off the idea of getting a bike.

Jeremy
 
Jeremy Harris said:
At the moment, riding around a fairly quiet rural area at modest speeds I don't feel any need to wear one Jeremy

In such situation as this i wouldn't either Jeremy, its the people with high powered e-bikes on the forum doing near freeway speeds that
speak out about not wearing helmets that i worry about, or i should say the effects it might have on younger members here
that already have an extremely high "personal acceptable level of risk" that will be influenced to not wear a helmet
when they take to the road on their hi powered e-bikes..would you travle 50mph on a e-bicyle
on busy roads without a helmet Jeremy? I'm thinking its a safe bet you wouldn't now,
I know i would want a quality helmet gloves and quality shoes at least
at those speeds. I would like to hear from anyone here thats fallen off on the road above 50mph
wearing shorts t-shirt thongs (flip flops) and no helmet and the injuries they suffered...AND if they still think
not wearing a helmet is a good idea... I can tell you from experince at those speeds your
for most part a passenger if you think your going to be stopping your head from hitting pavement your sadly mistaken.

KiM
 
AussieJester said:
In such situation as this i wouldn't either Jeremy, its the people with high powered e-bikes on the forum doing near freeway speeds that
speak out about not wearing helmets that i worry about, or i should say the effects it might have on younger members here
that already have an extremely high "personal acceptable level of risk" that will be influenced to not wear a helmet
when they take to the road on their hi powered e-bikes..would you travle 50mph on a e-bicyle
on busy roads without a helmet Jeremy? I'm thinking its a safe bet you wouldn't now,
I know i would want a quality helmet gloves and quality shoes at least
at those speeds. I would like to hear from anyone here thats fallen off on the road above 50mph
wearing shorts t-shirt thongs (flip flops) and no helmet and the injuries they suffered...AND if they still think
not wearing a helmet is a good idea... I can tell you from experince at those speeds your
for most part a passenger if you think your going to be stopping your head from hitting pavement your sadly mistaken.

KiM

To be honest, that picture of Luke in shorts worries me more than the helmet. I came off a motorcycle once wearing a T shirt and no gloves (although I was wearing a helmet) and still have a lovely crop of scars on my right hand, arm and shoulder now, 35 years later, as a consequence, plus the still bitter memory of the pain of gravel rash.................

I'm comfortable up to around 20mph riding around the local lanes without a helmet. I start to feel uncomfortable (that "personal acceptable level of risk" thing unconsciously kicking in.........) at speeds over this, particularly down hill, in traffic or on rough surfaces. I don't consciously notice much, but know that I grip the handlebars just that little bit tighter, watch the road more carefully and generally feel just that bit more tense. I've no doubt that if I was wearing leathers and a helmet I'd feel fine and happily go a heck of a lot faster.

I've had a couple of motorcycle accidents, both times I was wearing a helmet and the second time the helmet may have saved me having a serious head injury, judging by the scars it picked up. I'd not ride a motorcycle again without one, although I used to all the time when I was a teenager and feeling invulnerable.

Jeremy
 
My County mandated bicycle helmets. The enforcement is casual so you still see helmet less cyclist. One of the promoters was a Dr at a regional hospital that specializes in trauma emergencies. He said that he could tell if a cyclist was wearing a helmet or not by their condition. He was tired of the brain damage done to kids. I am with Jeremy for the most part on this. But people always personalize statics. If 1 in a 1000 will die in an accident then a person will say "I've rode my bike for 20 yrs and never had an accident". The 1 in a 1000 is still good, but no one can pick out who will die.

Bikes are inherently unstable, two wheels. Plus being in traffic, traveling at speed, the conditions of roads... I will be wearing a helmet.
 
We do have a helmet law in my state for those under 18. Since it's so stupid, I've never heard of anybody getting a bicycle ticket. Cops have real laws to enforce. They do enforce the motorcycle helmet law for minors. Typically you see helmets on lots of clumsy 5 year olds on bicycles, and maybe some girls to a bit older. Then the kids start "losing" thier helmets till the parents give up. :lol:

FWIW, the crash a few years ago that crushed a hemet, broke both shoulders and destroyed all my shoulder ligaments happened at 15 mph, on a dry pavement, brand new perfect road surface, and not a car in sight. My personal comfort level was so high, I decided to get a drink and next thing I knew I was flying when the bottle got into the front forks. Ya never know when I'll try to kill my self again. It's why they call em accidents. When I lay down the dirt bike fooling around though, it's no accident. I've chosen to risk a crash then.

Jeremy is right about the comfort level. I have a lot of experience with it, in thrill sports, and construction work. I'd do stuff all day on an 8 foot wall I'd never try on a 16 foot wall two stories up unless tied off. Untied two stories up , suddenly the wall moving around while you walk gets noticeable. You do up the ante when you feel protected, or feel like your comfort level is high.

For sure, at the races I feel like superman wearing a armored jacket, kevlar gloves, and a motorcycle helmet. But I don't dress like that for the 20 mph commute. In summer, it's shorts and a tee with a bike helmet. No matter how I dress though, I don't get totally stupid. Always pass behind the car, not in front of it, duhh. Being predictable to the cars out in traffic is much more important than helmet or no helmet.


Mopeds allowed on the bike lane. Right on!
 
The only thing that I can add is that as we get older we tend to follow our insticts as we have better judgement the more experiences we encounter. This is not true with a younger crowd who tend to go with the flow - sometimes following the lemming crowd. So to the experienced riders = look cool and dress fast and check your nuts and don't use a leash on your dog while riding a bike.
P.S. - Dogman where is your helmet.
 
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