Help choosing complete eBike

[jrb CO]

Hello,

I have spent quit a bit of time perusing past threads, but I am a bit overwhelmed. I want a reliable ebike that I can ride off road here in Colorado and Utah. I do not want a kit as I am not very mechanical and there is no one locally that I can find that has dealt much with eBikes or kits. I am thinking that it will simply be easier to purchase a complete bike.

I am not looking for extreme speed, but it would be nice if it has some torque to help with the mountain trails around me. I also probably only need 25 mile range give or take a little.

I am in pretty good shape, but that is for a 50+ year old. I weigh 170# and my extreme top end budget is around $3000.

What bikes should I look at that fit my niche? Thanks in advance

 

[dogman dan]

Off road riding is tough on e bikes. It's the steep hills that kill hubmotors. I couldn't imagine going out into the wilds with only a vague idea how the bike motor and battery works. If you built it, you can fix it. Maybe just get an enduro 250 motorcycle.

It will be $$$. Optibike comes to mind, as does the much faster stealth bomber. But you might look at the Hanebrink. It's a real climber. Some nice bottom bracket drives exist, but I don't know who is marketing them here. That entire list is likely over 3k.

That's far from a complete list. Look also at people selling bikes based on Mac and BMC gearmotors. In the slower windings, they climb good too.

This website has some information about ready to ride bikes. http://www.electricbike.com/ I would hazard a guess than 90% or more of pre built bikes are not really suitable for steep trails. Above 10% grade, most ebikes choke horribly.

 

[Drunkskunk]

Dogman named the only viable offroad choices for that kind of terrain, but you need to quadruple your budget. Or go for a Zero Motorcycle. Anything less in a pre-built bike is only going to be suitable for the off road foot paths in nice flat Kansas prairie land, and none of them will do 25 miles unless you do most of the pedaling your self.

 

[mark5]

Short of an Optibike or Zero motorcycle, maybe ebikes sf could provide you a BMC-motored (like dogman mentioned) ready-made ebike that would suit you.

(edit I wrote "There are a couple Hannebrink pictures there too" but there are not)

 

[wesnewell]

Well, I'm almost 67 and 270 lbs, in lousy shape, and my under $1000 bike would work fine. But I built mine from a kit. One of these might work for you.
http://www.hi-powercycles.com/category.sc;jsessionid=24C86EFEFC563A29FB1297AEB5294767.m1plqscsfapp04?categoryId=8
Might find something better on ebay, but I didn't look.

 

[neptronix]

I live in Utah and spent a good amount of time in Colorado.
Yes, you are going to need something above and beyond the average setup.
A mid drive is what you want to look for if you are going to be climbing some crazy stuff.
Look at what optibike has to sell. Maybe go test ride one. Sometimes they have used bikes for sale, and at that point, then they are reasonably priced.

Other than that, there are not a lot of suitable prebuilt bikes for you. Mid drives are a rarity in prebuilt bikes in the USA. Maybe a lower powered mid drive would be fine for you though? if so, perhaps follow the bafang crank drive threads on the forum. Stay away from cyclone and GNG though, they are known to be problematic. But bafang is a good company and they probably have a good product for sale.

p.s. dogman, the BMC and MAC motors are not suitable for offroad use, the gears inside will die a short death. A BMC or MAC motor can die going up steep hills too, i demagnetized mine a little climbing some really big, really long hills in Colorado Springs. Off road is tough on any motor anyway.

 

[dogman dan]

I've melted the crap out of my dd motors on "real" trails too. I'm talking about the crazy slow 2812 9c, which can climb 15 degrees for a short hill. ( mile or so)

A long hill of 15 degrees just saturates the shit out of it, and when the heat builds up, any kind of hubmotor just melts. 15% is easy, but 15 degrees no. Normal ebike hubmotors just start to choke and die at above about 10%. Listen to us who live in the rockies about riding in the rockies.

It just depends on what kind of riding you are proposing to do. We's suggestion of HPC is about the only one in your budget pre built that's the one I was groping for the name of. But for a real grind up the rocky mountains, you need through the gears drive. That's available in pre built, but not for cheap. The hpc bike will do some nice trails, but you need to keep it short enough to not melt down. Get a temperature probe inside that motor!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bite the bullet and learn to build a bike, then get the slowest hubmotor you can find, such as a mac 12 t. Ask Paul at EM3 ev if he can get a muxus motor in an extremely slow winding. my 2812 works pretty good, till I take it to the real mountains and melt it. Another affordable option is a less powerful but through the gears GNG kit.

As I usually do, here is some vid of what my crazy slow hubmotor can do. But on this ride, the motor did melt the halls, It also shook most of the hub cover bolts nearly out of the motor. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VF2QoL-VnrQ&list=UUOtLHO2wx3K3LfH4Wo2dZCA&index=1

The problem was the trail dropped about 1500 vertical feet into a canyon, and then I was screwed trying to climb back out to the street again. Climbing out, I could have made it, but the rocks wouldn't allow me to run fast. Slowing down just to hang on, I got to running inefficient and melted er down. It took an hour of riding, but only about 30 min riding uphill.

It's not like riding other places, where hills might be steep, but they don't go on for miles and miles like they do in the rockies or sierras.

 

[jrb CO]

Thanks for the advice. I like the look of the hi power cycles, but they quickly exceed my price range as you add options. Realistically, what is the minimum power package one should consider with this bike as you can equip the bike with anything from 1000w - 4000 w?

What about the Prodeco Outlaw SS http://prodecotech.com/bikes/outlaw-ss/ or the BH Emotion bikes http://www.bh-emotion.co.uk/bikes/cross/offroad-650/ ? Any opinion of these 2 bikes?

 

[docnjoj]

Here is one that could be what you need. They seem to be having growing pains at first, but the bike quality looks quite good. The great engineer Hal9000 had a big part in it.
otherDoc

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=42010

 

[Drunkskunk]

It really depends on how the bike is set up. If it has an appropriate offroad wind on a hub motor, a 4000 watt peak might be enough for the mountians. Some geared systems can make do with a little less, but the more power the better. 10,000 watt systems are not unreasonable for the kind of terrain you'll have in Colorado, and those must be hand built.

Of the two bikes you listed, the offroad 650 is the only one worth not immediately recycling. But a 250w geared hub will be useless on anything except flat trails, and only as pedal assist. That other bike may look neat, but its junk for offoroad purposes. A motor wound to go that fast at that voltage would melt in minutes on any hill or trail. The rest of the parts on that bike are pretty craptastic too.

 

[mark5]

Thanks for the advice. I like the look of the hi power cycles, but they quickly exceed my price range as you add options. Realistically, what is the minimum power package one should consider with this bike as you can equip the bike with anything from 1000w - 4000 w?

It doesn't look like there are any custom-made ebike parts that one could only get from HPC on those HPC bikes. They look like ready-made ebikes made from a mountain bike with a motor kit installed and a frame bag to carry the battery.

jrb, you write that you don't want a kit because you're not very mechanical. Does that mean you don't think you can understand how to install a kit but otherwise wouldn't mind. Or does it mean don't have time or don't want to get into it for whatever reason. On a regular bike If your back tire got punctured and went flat or you needed to change its brake pads would you fix it yourself or take the bike into a shop?

 

[mabman]

These guys are in CO and may be able to help you out:

Pete's Electric Bikes
2710 Pearl St
Boulder, Colorado, USA 80302

T 303.586.1544

info@petesebikes.com

 

[jrb CO]

Mark5,

Probably a little of both, little mechanical talent and subsequent little inclination. My biggest fear is going with wrong parts and doing a hack job. Unfortunately, the local bike shops are fairly naive about e kits and installation.

Obviously, I probably could come closer to budget with a kit install on my local bike. I just am not confident that I can do the install. I am comfortable with simple tire / brake repair, but this seems like a lot more. I do have a couple of buddies that are top notch bike mechanics that I could likely bug for help.

I have an older Giant GT I drive bike. What would I need to make the conversion on this bike?

 

[mark5]

Probably a little of both, little mechanical talent and subsequent little inclination. My biggest fear is going with wrong parts and doing a hack job. Unfortunately, the local bike shops are fairly naive about e kits and installation.

Obviously, I probably could come closer to budget with a kit install on my local bike. I just am not confident that I can do the install. I am comfortable with simple tire / brake repair, but this seems like a lot more. I do have a couple of buddies that are top notch bike mechanics that I could likely bug for help.

I have an older Giant GT I drive bike. What would I need to make the conversion on this bike?

If it'll help any the excellent Hyena Electric Bikes installation tutorial video is below. It's a 13-minute video that shows how easy it can be to install a kit. Mainly it's replacing the rear wheel with a motored one. Same as changing a tire. Whether you can get enduro 250, Optibike, or Zero motorcycle power as has been suggested you need out of a hub motor I don't know and not my interest. Just saying that installing a kit doesn't have to be real hard to do. Having little inclination might change if you see that it can be easier than you might imagine.

[youtube]WwIp3GC5F_c[/youtube]

 

[mark5]

I have an older Giant GT I drive bike. What would I need to make the conversion on this bike?

Hey look jrb, there are already at least a couple of GT i-drive build threads. Now all you have to know is if it's feasible to put a 4-10 kW motor in it as was suggested. Or you might settle for less power.

GCinDC: GT i-drive 2.0 Build
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=14842

migueralliart: GT i-drive 4.0 Build
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=42215

migueralliart has some nice one-piece torque arms that might fit your bike here.

 

[ilovehotshot]

I am in the same boat as jrb. After reading all the threads a kit is the way to go but it is so overwelming. Which kit, which batteries, which frame, which forks, which tire, the list goes on and on. Changing the wheel is the least of my worries/decisions. If some one has a list of parts needed of a tried and true bike that would be very helpful. Like jrb, I too want an offroad bike.

 

[sabongi]

kit
http://em3ev.com/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=36&product_id=138
use a 12 fet controller and a 12t motor!

Battery
http://em3ev.com/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=35&product_id=123

and a v3 CA
http://em3ev.com/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=41&product_id=126

 

[ecowheelz]

You might want to take a look at the BH Emotion Neo Xtrem and 29er:

BH Emotion Neo Xtrem - $2699



BH Emotion Neo 29er - $2999



Besides being great electric bikes, these are both extremely high-quality, well-built mountain bikes. They include top-of-the-line components and you'll get many great features you won't get from a conversion kit, such as:

1.) Centrally located, frame-mounted battery provides excellent balance and handling characteristics (great for mountain bike trails). The battery is also very discreet -- they look just like traditional bicycles.
2.) Torque-driven PAS (pedal-assist) system is extremely efficient and in-tune with the riders pedaling. Most conversion kits do not provide PAS, which is a great feature if you actually enjoy pedaling and just want to go faster and further -- with less strain. The PAS provides excellent range and basically makes you feel like Superman as you pedal along.
3.) Throttles are also included (if you don't feel like pedaling), along with digital LCD display, hydraulic disc brakes, etc. etc. etc.

I know many people here prefer kits, but from your description, I thought these would be a great and fit. Lots of options to consider, but these are definitely worth checking out

 

[ilovehotshot]

Thank you. I have been looking at the Neo Jumper and have been in contact with a Neo Jumper owner. I have not really looked at the models that you recommended yet, but I will. I also am looking at the Torque bikes and have sent emails to them to get more details. I love the look of their bike best. (Even more than the Bomber) But I realize that they are just in the beginning phases and are probably way out of my price range. I have looked at the build websites that were posted and am considering adding to one of my other bikes. Still wanting more details and am enjoying the search. Thanks for all the input.