reluctantsuburban
10 mW
Kinni420 said:
Just looked at Luna and priced it out, mine came closer to 1000...what battery did you go for and what's your top speed?
Help Me Build My Daily Commuter?
- Thread starter reluctantsuburban
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Just looked at Luna and priced it out, mine came closer to 1000...what battery did you go for and what's your top speed?
motomech
10 MW
reluctantsuburban said:
Oh, I missed that. Yes, good to go.
reluctantsuburban
10 mW
Hey MadRhino, thanks, this is helpful. I definitely don't know my MTBs. If I don't have plans to upgrade would you still say no the Fuel 80? Or if I went geared hub instead? Eager to hear your thoughts.MadRhino said:
At this point in time, I can't see myself comfortably riding beyond 30 mph. Seems like a lot of people get into hot rodding, but I don't think my wife would approve
reluctantsuburban said:
Am I looking at a different auction, or are you looking at this?
That doesn't really say anything about the rims. The closest I see to that is
The photos appear to show a machined rim brake surface - some of them do, anyway, while others show what appears to be a different rim that may or may not have a rim brake surface. I'd guess you'll get a rim brake surface, but I don't see them really saying that.
MadRhino
100 GW
They are telling this because of the brake cut-off. They don’t supply the switch for hydro brakes in the kit.
I’d say go with the Fuel if you will not want to go faster. Order the rear motor in a 24’’ wheel, that will improve the bike’s geometry by slacking the steer angle, and the rider’s weight transfered on the rear will help the shock slowing the rebound of the motor wheel.
The frame has room enough to fit the battery and controller. That is making a build simpler.
You will build another one sooner or later anyway. So it is not so bad that your first is not really suitable to upgrade. This one will make you realize what you like and don't, and the next will start to shape in your mind.
I’d say go with the Fuel if you will not want to go faster. Order the rear motor in a 24’’ wheel, that will improve the bike’s geometry by slacking the steer angle, and the rider’s weight transfered on the rear will help the shock slowing the rebound of the motor wheel.
The frame has room enough to fit the battery and controller. That is making a build simpler.
You will build another one sooner or later anyway. So it is not so bad that your first is not really suitable to upgrade. This one will make you realize what you like and don't, and the next will start to shape in your mind.
markz
100 TW
MadRhino said:
Isn't that the case for everyone here [strike]in[/strike] at E.S.
motomech
10 MW
I think I've told you, you will not be going 30 mph. 30 mph is superfast for an ebike. I was trying to get you to 25 mph. If you want to go 30 mph, double your budget, forget the Trek and buy the Frisbee sized DD motor and run 72 Volts. I'm not sure what the reason folks here are advocating an advanced build for a rank noobie. Now you are supposed to run two different sized wheels?? And what happens when the pedals hit the ground in the corners? You going to swap out the crank. I've been thru all that over the years, when you start changing one thing, then the next thing you didn't think about has to be changed. And on and on.
Anyhow, "too many cooks spoil the broth". Later
MadRhino said:
Hm, e-brake for mechanical disk brake: $16. E-brake for hydraulic disk brake: $209? or it would probably make more sense to provide a trip wire, which is only $39 - but I bet not one ebay kit supports hydraulic brakes either way.
MadRhino
100 GW
motomech said:
It is very common to run those older frames 24 on the rear to give them a more modern geometry. We do it without a motor, but with one it does improve them even more. As for hitting pedals on the ground, one inch lower on the rear could only do that to a bike that has a very low BB height. Obviously this is not the case with any MTB, old ones especially. The next generation of Trek after his one was one inch lower already, and the new ones another inch yet.
MadRhino
100 GW
donn said:
I agree that no ebay kits, and most kits anyway, are not supplying an inline switch for hydro brakes. 39$:by the way. For 150$ you hsve the complete Magura MT5e brake with switched lever.
wturber
1 MW
markz said:
Not quite yet for me. But I have collected two other motor hubs and I've used my experience to help a friend get his Chinese Hummer knockoff up and running again.
One thing I would suggest is that if you are on a truly tight budget, allow for an expected 10-20% for misc. expenses you didn't think of.
I would add that while I got my bike functional in a matter of a week or so, I spent most of a year learning what I really wanted it to do and making the appropriate modifications and additions.
reluctantsuburban
10 mW
Agreed to MadRhino's point that this will likely not be my last bike. I can imagine I won't know what I want until I'm regularly riding. That's part of the reason that I don't want to break the bank on this build. But, if that means selecting a frame with a clearer upgrade path later, I would certainly be open to suggestions.
Motomech, all I meant by the 30 MPH comment was that I don't see myself wanting to go that fast, so I can't imagine needing a bike that I can upgrade to hotrod status. I don't want to go 30mph at this point in time, topping out around 28 mph with hard pedalling and cruising mid 20s seems right for my temperament. This makes me think the Fuel 80 is a suitable frame, unless there are other upgrades besides speed that would make the bike unsuitable. This is really only a commuter for me, not for trail riding, off roading, going crazy fast, etc.
Wturber, do you have another build in mind as you're collecting? Or just picking things up on the side?
Sorry, Donn, in all of these posts I think sometimes I am not clear in what I am referencing. The ebay motor that said it was vbrake compatible is this one here: https://www.ebay.com/itm/ebikeling-...-Conversion-Kit/312058788232?var=610800250059
Motomech, all I meant by the 30 MPH comment was that I don't see myself wanting to go that fast, so I can't imagine needing a bike that I can upgrade to hotrod status. I don't want to go 30mph at this point in time, topping out around 28 mph with hard pedalling and cruising mid 20s seems right for my temperament. This makes me think the Fuel 80 is a suitable frame, unless there are other upgrades besides speed that would make the bike unsuitable. This is really only a commuter for me, not for trail riding, off roading, going crazy fast, etc.
Wturber, do you have another build in mind as you're collecting? Or just picking things up on the side?
Sorry, Donn, in all of these posts I think sometimes I am not clear in what I am referencing. The ebay motor that said it was vbrake compatible is this one here: https://www.ebay.com/itm/ebikeling-...-Conversion-Kit/312058788232?var=610800250059
The Trek has an aluminum frame, so plan on one or two rear torque arms. Why not consider a $200, 1000w, 48 V, DD rear hub kit and a mid-90's steel hardtail (dozens for sale where I reside for $200 or so). Then, with a 52V battery you'll have 33 mph or so available. I put a bike together for $600 plus donor three years ago and it still runs as well as when I built it. Also, look at similar builds on ES. Some have 15,000+ miles on them. The kit was YESCOM; I'd say where the battery was procured, but don't want to start a range war.
markz
100 TW
wturber said:
That is the way it always starts off.
Yes, you are well on your way.
2old said:
I like this, but not because of the 33mph potential - I don't know other people's experience, but in practice I just don't want to ride at the upper limit. The conditions aren't good. I'm not swaddled in armored clothing and a serious helmet, like I would be if I were riding my motorcycle. I'm on a light, flimsy contraption with narrow tires. The road isn't in perfect shape. The route is infested with motor vehicles that massively outweigh me, can go much faster and aren't expecting me. I get dust in my eyes. Whatever. It isn't fun, as a regular thing anyway.
But I do love to be able to pull out and be on my way, quickly if necessary, and that's when the dial can go up above 700W.
Aluminum rear triangle? Hm, hope at least the dropouts are steel?
wturber
1 MW
I picked up one motor simply because it was in town and was only $25. I figured I'd either find a use or run across someone else who could use it. The other was a Q100 that I bought from Motomech. At the time my thinking was to make a lightweight, low assist road bike in the vein of Chas58 and others. But I'm much less sure now. I road to work on my Trek 1400 to gain perspective on the real differences, and it kinda hit me how insane the road bike drop bar riding position and skinny tires were for the purpose of commuting. Frankly, my subjective feeling right now is that skinny tired road bikes are kinda silly. This, after riding that bike many thousands of miles over the years on that kind of bike.reluctantsuburban said:
So now I'm thinking I might electrify my old Dahon folder just for grins. But no real plans though. I've got my bike dialed in for commuting and I'm pretty happy with it.
Kinni420
100 W
reluctantsuburban said:
I shopped out the BBS02, 48v dolphin battery and basic charger. price came to 888.95. Of course, that's not including tax and shipping so $1000 is about right. Personally I'm riding the BBSHD with a 52v 14 ah battery. I can hit 36 mph when fully charged on flat, but I rarely exceed 28 just for legality here in CA.
IMHO there's nothing like the control of pedal assist, the shift-ability of having a mid motor and the complete and total lack of noise. My old 9c rear motor was a constant struggle with truing spokes, heavy on the rear end and a mess of wires on brick lipo. 18650 packs are just awesome. My kit, after what seems a hundred little purchases, has pushed me to about $2000 but I'm so in love with my bike, I get the best.
Going into the maintenance and wear issue, so far, at 1k miles, my only maintenance other than charging the battery has been general bike stuff (tires, tubes, chain lube etc.) Also I pulled reduction cover off to add grease (15 minutes). I figure that Ill pull the motor apart soon to re-grease the worm gear and add better water-proofing. (An hour or so. Lots of videos online to show how this is done and it doesn't look difficult). I expect the chain to wear more due to the amount of stress placed on it but chains don't cost much, same with the gear clusters.
On my old, cheap DD rear I was constantly messing with the spokes. Having a massive rear hub puts the spokes at extreme angles to the rim and due to their shortness caused weird bends and cross-overs. I rebuilt the wheel completely twice and broke at least 8 spokes during its life.
Tires are going to wear faster just due to acceleration on either style of motor, live with it
I helped my friend build his electric. He was impatient and wanted something cheap and NOW! We found Cyclotricity and his kit came out to $550. 36v 16ah on some random 750w controller and rear hub. https://www.cyclotricity.com/. He's happy but not really enjoying the 21-22 mph top speed. Now he wants to upgrade his controller and battery for more speed.
Kinni420
100 W
markz said:
Yup, my off-roading takes me up some pretty gnarly stuff. I could climb a wall if gravity wasn't an issue :lol:
Kinni420
100 W
donn said:
https://www.empoweredcycles.com/collections/performance-e-brake/products/tektro-dorado-hd-e710-e-bike-hydraulic-brake-203mm-front
$150 per brake for top-o-the-rainbow hydraulic e-brakes
markz
100 TW
Kinni420 said:
Not worth it, not at all. Some oil splashes up and your pads are gone.
Have a leak then what do you do. Tear a cable/hose on a trail, then what.
Agree with this. The small rear wheel is bad advice. OP wants a pedalec of modest power, not a motorcycle. Rear suspension on a commuter is not required even at 30 mph and rear suspension corrupted by the wrong rear wheel is a move you may regret and for certain you will never appreciate. Keep it simple.motomech said:
wturber
1 MW
craigsj said:
Keep in mind what the OP said at the outset, " If I were to deviate to all bike paths, it would be 20 miles one way. Both routes would be very flat, on paved roads with a fair amount of bad quality cement and potholes (more on the road than the paths)."
Required? No. Perhaps worth considering? Certainly. A suspension seatpost might be a compromise option worth considering.
MadRhino
100 GW
Yep, my recommendation was a hard tail DJ. I find for those speed averages and low budget, a robust hard tail with a good front suspension is making the best build.
I have found an old Santacruz Chameleon for 500$. This bike can crash 3 times a day, yet last 20 years. It is easy to make custom dropouts for it, and its frame shape is making for easy geometry tuning. There are many old DJ’s that are still in perfect shape, because very few riders are abusing them to the extreme stunts they were built for.
I have found an old Santacruz Chameleon for 500$. This bike can crash 3 times a day, yet last 20 years. It is easy to make custom dropouts for it, and its frame shape is making for easy geometry tuning. There are many old DJ’s that are still in perfect shape, because very few riders are abusing them to the extreme stunts they were built for.
Sure, but if he slows down on paths then it's less justified and it's not clear that his paths are rougher than the streets. We can talk in hypotheticals but we don't really know, you may be right.wturber said:
My bike easily does 35 mph using PAS but conditions really don't allow those speeds. I have a 40mm travel gravel fork and a Cirrus seat post on a hard tail and my next bike will be ditching the seat post. I commute in Austin and FS would be of no benefit to me at 30 mph. I have a converted FS bike as well and I've commuted on it so I'm aware of the differences.
I am absolutely convinced that a properly functioning hardtail can be counted on whereas who knows about a 15+ year old used FS bike. MTB equipment is not meant to be cornered on pavement at 20+ mph, my previous ride's fork shuddered and buckled under side loads present due to the grip and speed that pavement + electric provides. If it needs to be cheap, only get what you need. That fork, BTW, was brand new and quite expensive but was not intended for pavement use, just like these bikes being recommended.
Lost in all this is that MTB suspensions are not made to provide a smooth ride on pavement at high speeds plus older, used MTBs are primitive by today's standards and their shocks will be old, poor and possibly worn as will their pivots. When building a first commuter on a budget, the goal should be to maximize the likelihood of success and taking pot luck on an old used suspension and modifying it blind for questionable reasons is really not the way to go about it.
There is merit to DD hub drives from a standpoint of low maintenance, but there's really no doubt that a Bafang mid-drive on a hardtail is the easiest and most likely successful conversion for a first timer while meeting budget and performance objectives. No external controller, less complex wiring, no worries about dropouts or torque arms, no problems fixing flats on the road, no concerns over wheel build. It's a no-brainer even considering maintenance. A successful project is better than an unsuccessful one.
I'd say find a hardtail THAT FITS properly and is serviceable, perhaps even with a rigid fork, and that takes at least a 40mm tire and disk brakes. Then add a BBSHD and a good battery. That will do it, provided he invests some time fixing the terrible stock PAS programming. Then after using it a while he will better understand his needs and what he really thinks is best long term. Then he'll know if he needs FS and more/less power.
