Help me choose my first 1500watt kit please

[Martboy21]

Help me choose a kit please

OK so after endless searching, YouTubing and pretty much reading everything I can i have decided I want what's known as a 1500 watt rear hub kit

I wanted a 1000 watt kit initially however reading up on the controllers a lot of them are limited with the amount of amps/volts they can take. Seems the general agreement is that they have 12 mosfets and top out at around 60 volts

Now I'd like to try and run a 60-72v lipo setup

Range isn't a problem as this is more of a speed/fun project more than anything. Not for commuting and not to replace my work van

The problem I'm having is a lot of sellers are writing in thier description that the 18fet controller will only take 48volts not 60 or 72volt

So then I looked at the 3000watt kits with a 24 mosfet controller, only to find they only come in a 4inch wide fat bike tire and not on a normal bike rim

I have looked at

Www.theebikemotor.com
Www.uumotor.com
Www.leafbike.com
Www.pedalease.co.uk

And ebay and Ali express.

They only one with decent feedback is from passion e bikes but their 1500 watt kit (18 mosfet) again only takes 48 volt. I have asked the seller specifically aswell.

Please could somebody help me it's driving me mad and I want to settle on something

Postage on leafbike is a joke aswell

Please someone who has a decent kit in either 26" or possibly 20" please help me

 

[nutnspecial]

Huh, I thought most 18 fet controllers used 100v capacitors, which should be the limiting factor for voltage. Guys usually run up to 20-22s safely. I'd get seller verification before buying, just in case.

I had considered 'hallomotor' for a 1500w motor before I made my middrive.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/48v-1500w-26-Threaded-Rear-Wheel-Ebike-Conversion-Kit-Sine-Wave-Controller-/172146193553?hash=item2814b67491
They are saying 36/48v also, so I'd check with them if the higher voltages are possible too.

Otherwise, sellers like EM3ev, PowerVelocity, and Lein definitely sell 100v capable 18fet controllers. If they don't also sell the hub you want, and you don't want to put together a kit yourself, also checkout ES sellers like kinaye and eyebikesickle for full kits w/ 1500 and 3kw hubs.

 

[ScooterMan101]

It looks like you have searched the internet , and found many internet sellers,
However
You do not list the Very Place you want to go to and buy some/much of what you need from.....

Grin Technologies , in Vancouver B.C. Canada .
ebikes.ca

I mention them because of the following reasons ...

They have Engineers there that constantly Test and Push the Limits of Hub motors and other components.
They Develop their own Controller that will take the very volts and amps you are looking for.
They Have something they call Statoraid, which helps cool down high power hub motors just
like the kind you want on your bike.
They Engineered / Designed, and sell their own Charger that can charge the big volt & amp
type of battery that you will have to be using , since you want to run how power most of the time.


There are other places as well, and you can buy some of Grin's Products
like the Cycle Analyst, A Controller, the Satiator Charger, etc. at the following places
Em3ev.com, Luna , Re-Cycles in Nashville ( They offer a High Power Motor and something called Ferrofluid ), Grin Technologies .
I will just list the 4 above because those vendors have good products and good customer service.
I do not mean to leave out any other vendor , it is just that The 4 above are the ones I have researched the most.
You could buy some things from one place and other item/s from another, according what will work best for you.

 

[2old]

Inexpensive --- look at what wesnewell has done with a YESCOM kit or kinayemotorsports.
More expensive --- look at Dillenger's crystallite 72V kit

 

[Martboy21]

Thankyou for the replys

I should have said I'm in the UK, shipping and import from USA to UK is more than most kits

Have had a look athrough the links, kinaye has controllers that will take up to 96v however there whole kit cost 850usd without shipping

My question is that let's say we had a 1000 watt kit and 12 fet controller from a typical China seller and their 1500 watt kit with upgraded 18 fet controller on identical bikes

Both running a fully charged 48v battery, how exactly would there be any difference in performance if the voltage and Amp from the battery are the same??

I would understand if the hight rated kit allowed higher amps/voltage but none of the sellers can actually agree

Please somebody explain this

I ideally wanted a better than average Chinese kit, nothing from America due to price and import duty etc

Thanks again

 

[wesnewell]

Must have missed this, or can't follow instructions.
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=66302
If you want ot run a 72V system, you'll likely need a new controller. In that case it may be easier, and cheaper to just order everything separately. Or go with a 1000W kit and get a 72V controller separately.
https://www.aliexpress.com/store/313864

 

[daytonampco]

"Both running a fully charged 48v battery, how exactly would there be any difference in performance if the voltage and Amp from the battery are the same??"

A 1000w kit would draw ~21 amps from the 48V battery at full throttle. A 1500w kit would draw ~31 amps from the 48V battery at full throttle.

The 1500w kit would accelerate faster than the 1000w kit. The top speed of both would be about the same.

 

[wesnewell]

Totally wrong. 1000w kit refers to continuous operation . Not the actual max wattage of the controller.
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=74403

 

[Martboy21]

Again thank you all for your input

I just wanted a kit that came with a controller that would allow me to put more than 48v through it to achieve better acceleration and possibly hit 40mph on my mtb.

Please bare with me, I am a newbie with e bikes. Voltages, amps, fets I'm learning about them all.

I guess if a seller is telling me that their 18 fet controller won't handle anymore than 48 volts I'll steer clear. Just wanted a complate kit minus the battery

Thanks

 

[spinningmagnets]

You seem to be trusting the posted power-ratings of these components by the sellers. This is a mistake. The biggest benefit of ANY web-based forum is the ability of the members to post the "true" power ratings of the components.

FETs are the "on/off" switch inside a common-style controller. The lower the max voltage that the component is rated for (the capacitors and FETs), the more efficient they are. "Efficiency" meaning that: more of the input watts are converted to work, and less are converted to waste-heat.

If you are planning on using 45A battery amps, and your system is either 12S/13S/14S (44V, 48V, 52V, respectively), then...your best bet is to use a controller with 3077 FETs and 63V max capacitors.

IF...you plan to use MORE than a 52V battery (60V, or 72V, nominal), then...the common upgrade is using FETs and capacitors (inside the controller) that can run 100V. In that case, you need to add more FETs to handle the heat. That means that: when it comes to the efficient 3077 FETs, The readily available and easily purchase-able controllers top out at 12-FETs. Once you specify "more than" 52V...the choices immediately jump to an 18-FET controller. Physically larger and also more expensive.

I would LOVE for some controller provider to have an option for a 12S/13S/14S controller using 3077 FETs, and also using 15/18 FETs...meaning...44V/48V/52V systems with the ability to provide 60A-70A.

Those don't exist yet, but...someday?

 

[tomjasz]

Inexpensive --- look at what wesnewell has done with a YESCOM kit or kinayemotorsports.
More expensive --- look at Dillenger's crystallite 72V kit

Sure wesnewell makes great claims but just hang out and watch the forums for those that bought the yescom and it didn't go so well...
Or the n00bs and the Lipo "events" when they didn't use good sense.

 

[Martboy21]

Thanks spinningmagnets

That clears up a lot for me, thankyou

The next question I have is if I order this kit, 1500 watts

With what's been said can't I use 2 x 6s turnigy lipos

I know the voltage will be OK but lipos have a higher amp rating

No way I could get away with 3 in series to make higher voltage ??

Here battery specs

TURNIGY 5000MAH 6S 20C LIPO PACK




Spec.
Minimum Capacity: 5000mAh
Configuration: 6S1P / 22.2v / 6Cell
Constant Discharge: 20C
Peak Discharge (10sec): 30C
Pack Weight: 765g
Pack Size: 145 x 50 x 50mm
Charge Plug: JST-XH
Discharge plug: 4mm Bullet-connector

PRODUCT ID: T5000.6S.20

And the kit

Look at this on eBay http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/191859703745

Will this work?

Thanks

 

[2old]

Inexpensive --- look at what wesnewell has done with a YESCOM kit or kinayemotorsports.
More expensive --- look at Dillenger's crystallite 72V kit

Sure wesnewell makes great claims but just hang out and watch the forums for those that bought the yescom and it didn't go so well...
Or the n00bs and the Lipo "events" when they didn't use good sense.

I'm one of those that drank the Kool Aid; my YES kit has functioned perfectly and with its 30 amp controller and Luna's 52V, 10 a/h battery is still pulling at 32 mph when i stop pulling. Can't overemphasize how great a deal this kit is.

 

[wesnewell]

Sure wesnewell makes great claims but just hang out and watch the forums for those that bought the yescom and it didn't go so well...
Or the n00bs and the Lipo "events" when they didn't use good sense.

There are many people here that bought yescom kits with great success. And I don't recall any that didn't. Not that it matters much, their kits are the same as pretty much everyone else sells. They all come from the same place. BTW, I don't make claims, I just state the facts of my experiences. I couldn't care less what someone buys. But, I don't like it when people here tell others they need to spend $1500 or more to meet there needs, when it can be done for $500. It's almost like half the people on the forum are shills for one company or another.

 

[tomjasz]

$500 shill $1500 shill. Still a shill. VBG.

As long as you're around and generous as you are with your time Yescom will do well.

Thanks for all you do.

 

[Martboy21]

A seller from theebikemotor.com has confirmed his 1500 watt kit has the option of having a 48v or 72v brushless hub motor.

I have asked if his 35-40amp 18 mosfet will allow a 72v power supply so just waiting on his confirmation

Somehow got to get a 72v 20ah battery as he said that's the minimum to run a 72volt brushless hub

See I thought that amp hours determined the length or range or battery you had. Maybe the bigger pack puts out more amps than a 72v 10ah does

Also some 1500watt kits have around 35 nm torque versus his 76nm so think he maybe the better seller. Although his kits are restricted to 50kmh which is a little annoying

 

[wesnewell]

$500 shill $1500 shill. Still a shill. VBG.
As long as you're around and generous as you are with your time Yescom will do well.
Thanks for all you do.

I don't know why you sat that. I don't specifically recommend any one company. And I have never recommended to anyone to buy direct from yescomusa. On the contrary, I've recommended they don't. All my recommendations are to search for the best deal. It doesn't matter to me who that is. That's pretty much spelled out here.
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=66302

 

[wesnewell]

A seller from theebikemotor.com has confirmed his 1500 watt kit has the option of having a 48v or 72v brushless hub motor.

I have asked if his 35-40amp 18 mosfet will allow a 72v power supply so just waiting on his confirmation

Somehow got to get a 72v 20ah battery as he said that's the minimum to run a 72volt brushless hub

See I thought that amp hours determined the length or range or battery you had. Maybe the bigger pack puts out more amps than a 72v 10ah does

Also some 1500watt kits have around 35 nm torque versus his 76nm so think he maybe the better seller. Although his kits are restricted to 50kmh which is a little annoying

You're in a bad spot. You don't understand much of this and you're getting fed a lot of crap. You can run any brushless motor on any voltage from 12v to 150V. The controller determines the voltage that you need to use. Any 48V controller can use a battery pack up to 63V fully charged. It doesn't matter if it's 6 fet or 36 fet. The more fets usually means the controller is rated to continually provide more amps. Most 72V controllers have 100V caps and fets, so are rated to run up to 100V max battery packs. And you can run a 72V system on as little as 1 ah, as long as the battery pack can provide the amps required by the controller. The motor size doesn't matter one bit. It can be 200W or 5000W. AH is a relative term depending on voltage. Without a voltage, it's pretty much a useless number. You only need a 20ah battery pack if it's cromprised of weak ass battery cells like many lifepo4 and 18650 packs. Constructed with strong cells, many people could get by with a 5ah 72V pack as long as they didn't need a lot of range. I run a 10ah 88.8V pack on my 15 fet 40A controller and on motors rated for 1000W to 3000W. Personnally I wouldn't trust anything a dealer told me. Most are just out to make a sale, and don't really have a clue wtf they're selling. I find this to be the case no matter what you're buying, but especially true when it come to electronics. Buyer beware.

 

[Martboy21]

Thankyou wesnewell

That makes perfect sense. Really appreciate you taking the time and the others to help people like myself out. Yes you are correct this is all new to me. Bloody confusing I tell you that lol!

OK I will order the above kit unless you say other wise. Or should I order the 1000watt kit with better controller?

Will be running lipos

Don't really want 20kg of battery on my frame and distance isn't a factor

Would you use 4x 5 cell lipos or 3x 6 cell lipos

Thanks

 

[wesnewell]

Hard to say. The cheapest thing to do would be to buy 48V 1000W kit for ~$200 and then buy a couple of 6s packs to run in series for 44.4V nominal. That'll get you close to 30 mph. Then after that when you know more, decide if you want more speed you can get a 72V controller and add another 1 or even 2 more 6s packs in series. for 66.6V or 88.8V nominal. 18s works perfect with 72V controllers. If you go over that, you'll likely need to adjust the controllers LVC for regen to work. To run 24s I had to change my LVC from 61V to 84V so regen would work with higher voltages. But for anyone just starting out, I'd suggest stay cheap and keep it simple. As you learn more, you can do more, and spend more money.

 

[Martboy21]

Thanks again wes

Having trouble at the minute. The donor bike has only 110mm rear drop outs. The kit is 135mm , want to be able to peddle. So unless I can figure out a way of using a front hub on the rear with a sprocket somehow I'm a little stuffed.

Has that been done before do you know?

I think I'll get the 1500 watt kit. It works out 20-30 pound more so may invest now. Lipos will be 2 6s to get me up and running. If that's not enough power I'll add a third

Cheers

 

[Martboy21]

Have found this



Just need to source a cover plate ffs

 

[Martboy21]

Leaf bike have confirmed they can make a front hub motor with rear threaded motor plate to attach to single sprocket .

$175
But including shipping is $416. Ridiculous

They are missing out on business

 

[Martboy21]

The shipping itself is more expensive than most e bikes kit!

 

[Martboy21]

That looks like a excellent kit. Out of my price range when you add the shipping etc

But thankyou though