999zip999
100 TW
I seen a working rear hub one with a 9c going 40mph on lipo. Everyone love it.
Help me pick some parts (please!)
- Thread starter Arethosemyfeet
- Start date
Golyo
100 mW
I know it is out of your budget range, but there might be others like it out there: http://www.ebikes.ca/product-info/stoke.html
You can reverse the clutches in all the Q-series motors, so no problem with them. I don't know of any other motors where that's possible.
I don't think you can split a LCD to two controllers because there's data communication between them. It would probably work with the KU 65 controllers with LED control panels because they work with a simple analogue signal for the PAS level (no communication, just a voltage in the 4th wire), but the control panel switches the power for the controller, so all the power used by the controller goes through it. With two controllers, the power through it would double from about 100mA to 200mA. I don't know the rating of the transistor in it that does the switching, though it would probably be OK. To connect it, you would have to split the blue wire, which is battery voltage back to the controller, and the green wire, which is the analogue PAS level. No need to split the red or the black. Just take then from one controller because they're common on each.
I don't think you can split a LCD to two controllers because there's data communication between them. It would probably work with the KU 65 controllers with LED control panels because they work with a simple analogue signal for the PAS level (no communication, just a voltage in the 4th wire), but the control panel switches the power for the controller, so all the power used by the controller goes through it. With two controllers, the power through it would double from about 100mA to 200mA. I don't know the rating of the transistor in it that does the switching, though it would probably be OK. To connect it, you would have to split the blue wire, which is battery voltage back to the controller, and the green wire, which is the analogue PAS level. No need to split the red or the black. Just take then from one controller because they're common on each.
Chalo
100 TW
999zip999 said:
Scary. I've never met a trike I'd go 40 mph on. Especially not a bakfiets trike with a steerable box.
I recently de-electrified a long wheelbase cargo pedicab trike. It had been set up by a previous owner with an X5304 hub and 72V controller, and could reach close to 35mph. Even with a pedicab's wide, long, heavy duty chassis and sturdy wheels, that was terrifying. Maneuvering was not possible at speed, at least not without risking a rollover.
Trikes should be slow. It's better that way.
Arethosemyfeet
10 mW
Thanks so much for all the suggestions folks. My current tentative shopping list looks like this:
2 x S-LCD5 LCD Meter for S-Series Controlers
2 x 36V250Watts Front Driving SWXK5 Motor E-Bike Wheel (this has a Q in front of the code on the description, is this one still reversible? The waterproofing was rather attractive)
2 x S06S 250W Torque Simulation Sine Wave Controller
2 x 36V10Ah Lithium Ion Electric Bicycle Battery Pack (it's not much more for 2 of these than 1 20Ah so I thought I'd not risk trying to split the supply from a single battery)
1 x Twist Grip Throttle
1 x Five Poles PAS--Pulse Padel Assistant Sensor
Total price: £658.81
Please feel free to tell me what I'm missing and whether this will do what I want it to do!
2 x S-LCD5 LCD Meter for S-Series Controlers
2 x 36V250Watts Front Driving SWXK5 Motor E-Bike Wheel (this has a Q in front of the code on the description, is this one still reversible? The waterproofing was rather attractive)
2 x S06S 250W Torque Simulation Sine Wave Controller
2 x 36V10Ah Lithium Ion Electric Bicycle Battery Pack (it's not much more for 2 of these than 1 20Ah so I thought I'd not risk trying to split the supply from a single battery)
1 x Twist Grip Throttle
1 x Five Poles PAS--Pulse Padel Assistant Sensor
Total price: £658.81
Please feel free to tell me what I'm missing and whether this will do what I want it to do!
Rassy
1 MW
My concern is your decision to get/use separate batteries. I always fed my multiple motor setups from a single, or at least paralleled together, battery pack so that both controllers/motors would be seeing exactly the same voltage at all times. I think this is very important when controlling them from a single throttle/PAS system.
So if you plan to parallel your batteries, great. Just be sure they are close to the same voltage when you connect them together.
So if you plan to parallel your batteries, great. Just be sure they are close to the same voltage when you connect them together.
Arethosemyfeet
10 mW
That's a good point, thanks. If I have to get some wiring done either way then I might as well go for the cheaper, single battery option. My wife's pretty good with the electrical stuff so shouldn't be a problem either way.
Rassy
1 MW
Asterix said:
My experience was with two hub motors on a pusher trailer, which worked great. At one time I had two different speed hub motors with separate throttles, etc. on a LWB recumbent bike. The plan was to have a backup system as well as extra power for steep hills over 15% grade. Worked okay, but when climbing hills with both motors I had to apply just enough throttle on the faster motor to help the slower motor, otherwise the faster motor did all the work and would overheat.
So as long as everything is matched you shouldn't experience any cornering problems, at least not on solid surfaces, since the electric motors are free to turn at whatever speed is necessary at all times the outside motor will simply run a little faster with slightly less torque than the motor on the inside of the corner.
This has been discussed several times on the forum, and as suspected has proved not to be a problem by a tadpole trike that was fitted with two hub motors. I didn't search for that thread, but I did follow it at the time.
My experience was with two hub motors on a pusher trailer, which worked great. At one time I had two different speed hub motors with separate throttles, etc. on a LWB recumbent bike. The plan was to have a backup system as well as extra power for steep hills over 15% grade. Worked okay, but when climbing hills with both motors I had to apply just enough throttle on the faster motor to help the slower motor, otherwise the faster motor did all the work and would overheat.
So as long as everything is matched you shouldn't experience any cornering problems, at least not on solid surfaces, since the electric motors are free to turn at whatever speed is necessary at all times the outside motor will simply run a little faster with slightly less torque than the motor on the inside of the corner.
Arethosemyfeet
10 mW
My wife asked the same question, Asterix, and my answer was pretty much what Rassy said. Plus I tend to slow down for corners (speeding round corners is a recipe for tipping over).
999zip999
100 TW
Farfle friend up in Oregon had 40mph missile. Can't find a pic.
Wrong motors. They can't be reversed so you'll only be able to spin on he spot. You need a pair of Q100, Q100H, Q85, or Q75. They're just as wattproof as the Bafng anywy.
With the LCDs, it might be an idea to get a wheel speed sensor in case the motors don't have the intenal one.
If you buy complete wheels, you'll need one of thir spoke keys.
Aftrr thinking about it a bit, it might be better to use a pir of KU65 controllers because I think they might work with a single LED ontrol panel.
A thumb thottle or half-width twist throttle will be easier to instsll. Full-width hrottles are not very good for pedalling. You need to hold a fixed handlebar. It's possible to brake them too when pedslling hard.
With the LCDs, it might be an idea to get a wheel speed sensor in case the motors don't have the intenal one.
If you buy complete wheels, you'll need one of thir spoke keys.
Aftrr thinking about it a bit, it might be better to use a pir of KU65 controllers because I think they might work with a single LED ontrol panel.
A thumb thottle or half-width twist throttle will be easier to instsll. Full-width hrottles are not very good for pedalling. You need to hold a fixed handlebar. It's possible to brake them too when pedslling hard.
Arethosemyfeet
10 mW
Thanks again d8veh.
Looks like none of the 200W or 250W Q range are compatible with disc brakes, which is a bit of a PITA. Looking at the output curve on the Q100H 350W I don't think that will be conspicuously successive so I'll sub in a pair of those instead.
I think I'll take smoother and quieter in return for living with two LCDs. I'll get my wife to take a look at the wiring when they arrive and see if I can managed with just the one.
I've swapped to a half-twist throttle (briefly amused by the idea of fitting two throttles and effectively having electric steering too but decided it would be silly, and likely dangerous) and have added a couple of speed sensors and the spoke wrench.
Is that everything or do I need torque arms, extra cabling or anything else?
Looks like none of the 200W or 250W Q range are compatible with disc brakes, which is a bit of a PITA. Looking at the output curve on the Q100H 350W I don't think that will be conspicuously successive so I'll sub in a pair of those instead.
I think I'll take smoother and quieter in return for living with two LCDs. I'll get my wife to take a look at the wiring when they arrive and see if I can managed with just the one.
I've swapped to a half-twist throttle (briefly amused by the idea of fitting two throttles and effectively having electric steering too but decided it would be silly, and likely dangerous) and have added a couple of speed sensors and the spoke wrench.
Is that everything or do I need torque arms, extra cabling or anything else?
The Q100H and cooking Q100 both have fixings for the disc brake. I'm not sure about the Q85. I'll know in the next couple of days. The Q75 doesn't.
I guess your drop-outs are steel, so no need for torque arms on these small motors.
I guess your drop-outs are steel, so no need for torque arms on these small motors.
Arethosemyfeet
10 mW
Last call for any thoughts/advice/warnings before I put an order in.
@d8veh: if this all works out I'll definitely owe you a large drink of something.
@d8veh: if this all works out I'll definitely owe you a large drink of something.
999zip999
100 TW
No new info, but I been falling this thread and what to see how things work out. Good luck. D8veh lots of support.
Arethosemyfeet
10 mW
Was about to place the order, then found mention of the width of the q100h - apparently it's 135mm+ which is obviously a non-starter with 100mm gap to fill. Back to the drawing board, it seems.
slowhands
100 W
Arethosemyfeet said:
A little confusion. The rear version q100h is the usual 135mm width for rear axles.
https://bmsbattery.com/ebike-kit/631-q100h-36v350w-rear-driving-ebike-hub-motor-ebike-kit.html
The front version of the q100 (non H) is the usual 100mm width for front axles.
https://bmsbattery.com/ebike-kit/333-q100-36v250w-350w-front-driving-ebike-hub-motor-ebike-kit.html
BMS battery does not seem to offer the front version of a Q100H online, but it may be possible to special order it. Some people here say they have ordered it, so maybe it's just not in the online catalog. The difference between the versions is subtle, slightly more torque, but don't worry, with two of them you will have plenty of torque and power. This motor has a built in 12.5:1 reduction which gives it tremendous low speed performance, and since you won't be racing on a cargo trike, it's a good choice. This little motor is quite powerful and will probably do very well for you.
Arethosemyfeet
10 mW
I dropped bms an email (and got a very fast response) which confirmed that the front q100h:
https://bmsbattery.com/ebike-kit/632-q100h-36v350w-front-e-bike-motor-wheel-ebike-kit.html
Is actually 100m, despite the diagram. I assume the diagram must be of the rear wheel version.
https://bmsbattery.com/ebike-kit/632-q100h-36v350w-front-e-bike-motor-wheel-ebike-kit.html
Is actually 100m, despite the diagram. I assume the diagram must be of the rear wheel version.
Arethosemyfeet
10 mW
And this is the point where I look hugely embarrassed! I've been convinced the whole time I've had this trike (3.5 years and counting) that I had disc brakes. Having only had rim brakes in the past I hadn't seen anything to disabuse me. 
It was only when I went and checked the original receipt that I realised that, while I had paid for a brake upgrade, it was merely a higher class of roller brake (the Shimano IM70) and not disc brakes. I should have twigged when d8veh mentioned it previously. Apologies for the confusion. In any case, that makes it pretty clear that the Q85 is the beastie for me.
It was only when I went and checked the original receipt that I realised that, while I had paid for a brake upgrade, it was merely a higher class of roller brake (the Shimano IM70) and not disc brakes. I should have twigged when d8veh mentioned it previously. Apologies for the confusion. In any case, that makes it pretty clear that the Q85 is the beastie for me.
slowhands
100 W
Arethosemyfeet said:And this is the point where I look hugely embarrassed! I've been convinced the whole time I've had this trike (3.5 years and counting) that I had disc brakes. Having only had rim brakes in the past I hadn't seen anything to disabuse me.
It was only when I went and checked the original receipt that I realised that, while I had paid for a brake upgrade, it was merely a higher class of roller brake (the Shimano IM70) and not disc brakes. I should have twigged when d8veh mentioned it previously. Apologies for the confusion. In any case, that makes it pretty clear that the Q85 is the beastie for me.
Big difference, roller brake vs disc brake. The Q85 seems a good match, already having roller brake. You might get into issues when you reverse one motor's freewheel mechanism, if anything has threads. It looks like the roller brake is splined. I suspect you want the slow speed version, 201 RPM.
https://bmsbattery.com/ebike-kit/437-q85-36v250w-roller-brake-front-driving-hub-motor-ebike-kit.html
This will be a good experiment for us all to observe and learn from. I hope you post your progress and problems.
Chalo
100 TW
Roller brakes require their own proprietary mounting splines on the hub. Make sure whatever hub you use has such splines if you want to keep the brakes.
Arethosemyfeet
10 mW
At the risk of making even more of a fool of myself, does anyone except Shimano make roller brakes?
Chalo
100 TW
I have seen a couple of reverse-engineered Chinese clones of Shimano roller brakes. There are no other similar brakes by other reputable manufacturers that I know of.
Arai of Japan used to make a very large capable drum brake that could be fixed to a freewheel thread, but since going out of production years ago, the remaining specimens have become rare and expensive.
Arai of Japan used to make a very large capable drum brake that could be fixed to a freewheel thread, but since going out of production years ago, the remaining specimens have become rare and expensive.
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