((Help me please!! alternator delta conversion as a motor))

[parabellum]

I do not know what you want to say with your previous post.

I say that: a stage by stage of this conversion altermotor would be better, that some pictures, some figures, then to disappear, by leaving a link site of sale.
The post does not give "enormously" help for those who really want to understand and to realize this conversion.
But it is my "Opinion".

If you are about tread I linked. It was definitively useful for me, he pointed 2 factors I forgot to take in consideration. As result, your converter will stay alive and you know that switching to Y will make you more efficient if needed (I still not believe 85% efficiency is archivable ).

Just take what is useful and forget the rest. This is my opinion.

 

[kejanostra]

I still not believe 85% efficiency is archivable

Driving alternator, to be "Not" and, " never éfficace in 100 % " anyway, I am conscious of it, and I know that he is useful only short-term (just as a small moment of leisure).

Goodbye, the holidays wait for me.

 

[kejanostra]

Hello!

Directly of my holidays, I obtained a little of connection Wifi (very short!),
thus I takes advantage to give a little of information, that a guy of 20 years of work experience
in the manufacture of engine BLDC,
and thus he confirmed it:

Configuration of the winding:

The winding of the engine brushless
The engine is constituted by 3 reels, out of step of 120 °, coupled in star or in triangle. The couplings allow to privilege or the speed is the couple with a factor v3.

The constants of speed and couple have to correspond to the expected results:
For a strong impedance, the coupling in star with the mass reels is recommended.(X1.73 more Torque that Delta)
For a weak impedance, the coupling in triangle with reels in parallel is preferable.(X1.73 more Speed that Wye)

We obtain the same power with:
For coupling Wye: more tension for less of current.
For coupling Delta: less tension for more of current.

NAMELY ALSO:
Bad sides: current of Foucault.
Less developed on WYE but more on DELTA.
- Loss energy.
- Heating transformer.

Thus, for a work alternator in engine, Wye/star will ask for more tension V, but fewer amperes, and he will clear less heat at high speed.
And Delta, will ask for less tension V, but more amperes, and it will clear more heat at high speed.Then star is preferable to avoid losing the energy, and having less heat in transformers (reels), but star has to have more V to work, it gives more torque, and its speed can be adjusted to rotor with less V.
In my case, I consider not worked with more of 12V battery for this moment, then I would stay with triangle.
But I would make a test with wye/star on battery 12V, to notice the affimations of some.

PS:
" Certain people here already know this information, but she is useful for the not connoisseurs. "

 

[kejanostra]

Remark:
Good to know, I added an ESC and a servo tester on rotor, and I obtained high speed,
so I obtained either "Torque" or "Speed" when I played with the potentiometer of the tester servo.
But this technique is not comfortable for me, if I install on the handlebars.

 

[kejanostra]

Finally received my battery 12V 9800 mAh Lithium ion.
She has a switch on/off, and also a charger sector.

Concerning the switch 12V 100A, this idiot of seller sent me a switch 12V 100A, but without the key, then he paid off me, then I would untangle with (the key is expensive as well as the set).
Nevertheless on the picture of the seller, the key was well present with the switch.
On the other hand, with converter of tension on rotor, the speed is not terrible, I lowered until 3V, more low that 3V the rotor picks up, and with 3V the alternator runs but not much more than with the servo tester and ESC on rotor directly.
My battery 12V 9800 mAh buy on Aliexpress (-30$):

 

[parabellum]

Finally received my battery 12V 9800 mAh Lithium ion.
She has a switch on/off, and also a charger sector.

Concerning the switch 12V 100A, this idiot of seller sent me a switch 12V 100A, but without the key, then he paid off me, then I would untangle with (the key is expensive as well as the set).
Nevertheless on the picture of the seller, the key was well present with the switch.
On the other hand, with converter of tension on rotor, the speed is not terrible, I lowered until 3V, more low that 3V the rotor picks up, and with 3V the alternator runs but not much more than with the servo tester and ESC on rotor directly.
My battery 12V 9800 mAh buy on Aliexpress (-30$):

This is not your main battery, right?

 

[Skalabala]

Welcome back
What do you want to do with that battery?

 

[kejanostra]

This is not your main battery, right?

Yes, I use this 12V6 - 9800 mAh Battery Li-ion now, and work very well.
I would return given by videos later, because with the holidays and my family, not a lot of time for it.

Star/wye works not with 12V, thus I leave Delta.
The tests that I made with converter of tension until 3V, they were realized with battery 12V 55Ah car. 8)

 

[parabellum]

This is not your main battery, right?

Yes, I use this 12V6 - 9800 mAh Battery Li-ion now, and work very well.
I would return given by videos later, because with the holidays and my family, not a lot of time for it.

Star/wye works not with 12V, thus I leave Delta.
The tests that I made with converter of tension until 3V, they were realized with battery 12V 55Ah car. 8)

Do you have any performance data on this battery. Those camera batteries are usually high internal resistance and super low discharge rate (C rate), sometimes overrated in capacity. They also are kind of low current BMS protected. I suspect this battery could fail trying to deliver any significant amount of power.

 

[kejanostra]

Do you have any performance data on this battery. Those camera batteries are usually high internal resistance and super low discharge rate (C rate), sometimes overrated in capacity. They also are kind of low current BMS protected. I suspect this battery could fail trying to deliver any significant amount of power.

Yes I know, but she will give a result close to that of a battery of car, and moreover there is no protection " BMS ", nor of "C" discharge rate, with a battery of car, and the alternator works well.
I would set later, lipo 3S 5000 mAh 20C (what gives power discharge rate of 100A), because this battery are high price, even if I buy in china.

 

[kejanostra]

Persons here know this site:
http://www.hobbygaga.com/fr-11-1v-2200mah-30c-li-poly-battery-for-qr-x350-p266606.htm

Because they sell prices acceptable, but are they reliable?
And, if I takes (later!), two as these (link of the site), if I to put in series, I can have 4400 mAh and approximately 130A "C discharge", no?

 

[parabellum]

Persons here know this site:
http://www.hobbygaga.com/fr-11-1v-2200mah-30c-li-poly-battery-for-qr-x350-p266606.htm

Because they sell prices acceptable, but are they reliable?
And, if I takes (later!), two as these (link of the site), if I to put in series, I can have 4400 mAh and approximately 130A "C discharge", no?

Do not know hobbygaga.
But why not use this one instead?
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__15521__Turnigy_5000mAh_4S1P_14_8v_20C_hardcase_pack.html

 

[parabellum]

Persons here know this site:
http://www.hobbygaga.com/fr-11-1v-2200mah-30c-li-poly-battery-for-qr-x350-p266606.htm

Because they sell prices acceptable, but are they reliable?
And, if I takes (later!), two as these (link of the site), if I to put in series, I can have 4400 mAh and approximately 130A "C discharge", no?

Do not know hobbygaga.
But why not use this one instead?
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__15521__Turnigy_5000mAh_4S1P_14_8v_20C_hardcase_pack.html

P.S.If you put batteries in series, V goes up, capacity stays. Connection in parallel sums capacity, V stays. So, 2 series connected 11v 2200mah batteries result in 22v 2200mah. Do not take any numbers on those batteries as true, unless independent test results are available. HK linked battery actually is reliable up to 10C. capacity is mostly little over 5000mAh.

 

[kejanostra]

P.S.If you put batteries in series, V goes up, capacity stays. Connection in parallel sums capacity, V stays. So, 2 series connected 11v 2200mah batteries result in 22v 2200mah. Do not take any numbers on those batteries as true, unless independent test results are available. HK linked battery actually is reliable up to 10C. capacity is mostly little over 5000mAh.

Oh! It's true, I confused "paralléle and series" :lol:
I wanted to say then "Paralléle", to increase the capacity or "autonomy ".
PS:
Thank you for the link, but Hobbyking is good for the sale?

 

[parabellum]

P.S.If you put batteries in series, V goes up, capacity stays. Connection in parallel sums capacity, V stays. So, 2 series connected 11v 2200mah batteries result in 22v 2200mah. Do not take any numbers on those batteries as true, unless independent test results are available. HK linked battery actually is reliable up to 10C. capacity is mostly little over 5000mAh.

Oh! It's true, I confused "paralléle and series" :lol:
I wanted to say then "Paralléle", to increase the capacity or "autonomy ".
PS:
Thank you for the link, but Hobbyking is good for the sale?

I purchased over 30 of this packs, about 10% dudes, but can not complain. Search for topics about them.

 

[kejanostra]

I purchased over 30 of this packs

about 10% dudes

10 % which? Not understood

Yes, hobbyking seems satisfactory 90 % according to what I read on him.
I wonder if this kind of wire would be good for this battery 4S 20C for example?
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=9680
And, if this wire, as this battery, does not risk to allow to pass too much of current for
my 2 smalls buttons (3 positions, and on/off), because they will work no more of 3A maximum?

 

[parabellum]

I purchased over 30 of this packs

about 10% dudes

10 % which? Not understood

Yes, hobbyking seems satisfactory 90 % according to what I read on him.
I wonder if this kind of wire would be good for this battery 4S 20C for example?
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=9680
And, if this wire, as this battery, does not risk to allow to pass too much of current for
my 2 smalls buttons (3 positions, and on/off), because they will work no more of 3A maximum?

Current flow is usually limited by circuit resistance. It is very bad practice to limit current with the wiring, resistance is heat, cooper wires bring it everywhere they are soldered or connected to. Actually I like cool wiring, it helps to cool switches, circuit boards and other components. 16 AWG is ok for 3Ah, but use thickest wires you can afford for ESC and motor.

P.S. 10% of the cells in the packs can have some problems, self discharge, higher resistance, lower capacity, punctured cell or what so ever. You need to monitor them closely first few cycles, or better cycle them on purpose to eliminate week cells. You will find more info in the forum about it, they are sticky topics about LiPos.

 

[kejanostra]

For small button (3A) and converter tension, It is necessary:WIRE 24AWG/Heatshrink 3MM.
And for ESC and alternator (100A), It is necessary:WIRE 10AWG/Heatshrink 6MM.
It is correct?

I found this information following one:
Here is the ampacity (maximum amount of current) that each size of this silicon wire can handle.
Keep in mind that this is just a rule of thumb as ambient temperature and air flow will make a difference.

8AWG 200 amps
10AWG 140 amps
12AWG 90 amps
14AWG 60 amps
16AWG 35 amps
18AWG 20 amps
20AWG 12 amps
22AWG 10 amps
24AWG 6.5 amps

Outside diameter of wire gauges listed above are as follows with a tolerance of +/- 0,1mm.
8AWG = 6.5MM
10AWG = 5.5MM
12AWG = 4.5MM
14AWG = 3.5MM
16AWG = 3.0MM
18AWG = 2.8MM (294 count .08 conductor)
18AWG = 2.3MM (150 count .08 conductor)
20AWG = 2.0MM
22AWG = 1.7MM
24AWG = 1.6MM

Heatshrink:
10MM Heatshrink for 8AWG
6MM Heatshrink for 10-12-14 and 16AWG.
6MM shrinks to 2.8mm (measured while posting)
4MM Heatshrink for 18-20AWG
3MM Heatshrink for 22-24AWG

 

[kejanostra]

Parabellum, you recommended me to put a Diode, between the OUT (+) converter tension,
and the IN (+) of the rotor (so that the current to make not step backward),
then what kind of Diode it would be necessary, have you a reference?

 

[parabellum]

Parabellum, you recommended me to put a Diode, between the OUT (+) converter tension,
and the IN (+) of the rotor (so that the current to make not step backward),
then what kind of Diode it would be necessary, have you a reference?

Any diode that can handle 3A, I usually use thicker wires to keep them cool. 10 cm 12AWG cooper wire will conduct lot oh heat away, and you can use even simple 1W diode for 3W application.

 

[kejanostra]

Parabellum, you recommended me to put a Diode, between the OUT (+) converter tension,
and the IN (+) of the rotor (so that the current to make not step backward),
then what kind of Diode it would be necessary, have you a reference?

Any diode that can handle 3A, I usually use thicker wires to keep them cool. 10 cm 12AWG cooper wire will conduct lot oh heat away, and you can use even simple 1W diode for 3W application.

Thus put wire copper rather than wire sillicium as above?
So I to put thread 12 AWG copper, + a Diode 1W for my buttons 3A, and wire 10 or 8 AWG copper (without Diode) for ESC and Alternator?
My problem is that my buttons 3A, they are going to be approximately 1,50-2 meters of distance between handlebars and alternator, only the ESC, alternator and converter of tension will be together, thus 10 cm will be really too short for my buttons 3A.

 

[parabellum]

Parabellum, you recommended me to put a Diode, between the OUT (+) converter tension,
and the IN (+) of the rotor (so that the current to make not step backward),
then what kind of Diode it would be necessary, have you a reference?

Any diode that can handle 3A, I usually use thicker wires to keep them cool. 10 cm 12AWG cooper wire will conduct lot oh heat away, and you can use even simple 1W diode for 3W application.

Thus put wire copper rather than wire sillicium as above?
So I to put thread 12 AWG copper, + a Diode 1W for my buttons 3A, and wire 10 or 8 AWG copper (without Diode) for ESC and Alternator?
My problem is that my buttons 3A, they are going to be approximately 1,50-2 meters of distance between handlebars and alternator, only the ESC, alternator and converter of tension will be together, thus 10 cm will be really too short for my buttons 3A.

Switch position for stator does not matter much, those can be long wires. You should take over 3W diode and can use 24Awg wires. Described trick with thicker conductor is just workaround if you have to small diode. HK silicon cable is referred to the isolation, the conductor inside is fine strand cooper.
(nickel plated I believe) :wink:

 

[kejanostra]

I am a little lost with this stories of wire. :?
I put Diode 3W in out (+) converter of tension towards Rotor, and for my 2 buttons and converter with wire 24AWG copper.
Then, for alternator (stator) to ESC, and ESC towards switch 12V 100A, up to battery, me to put wire approximately 12-16AWG copper, (and not need for Diode?!).

 

[parabellum]

I am a little lost with this stories of wire. :?
I put Diode 3W in out (+) converter of tension towards Rotor, and for my 2 buttons and converter with wire 24AWG copper. Yes
Then, for alternator (stator) to ESC, and ESC towards switch 12V 100A, up to battery, me to put wire approximately 12-16AWG copper, (and not need for Diode?!).

Mostly yes, only thing I would change is Battery to ESC to Stator wire, for 8-10AWG (and even then they will get hot)

 

[kejanostra]

only thing I would change is Battery to ESC to Stator wire, for 8-10AWG (and even then they will get hot)

You think that even with thread 8AWG, he will warm?
To put between converter tension and rotor (+), one Diode 16V 1W (because new li-po battery 4S will be less of 15V) how this one for example? :|
http://www.ebay.fr/itm/5-diodes-zen...ge_ElectroniqueComposants&hash=item417a099672 is good?