Help needed with new Scooter

[Vasilis69]

Hello Everyone,

I bought about 2 weeks ago an electric scooter with the attached specs (you can see the motor hub/controller).
The motor rating is 2600watts.

I bypassed the speed limit and I can hit up to 55km/h (it's easy, it's just a cable in the controller), but i would like to make it a bit faster.

Thing is that i cannot find anything about my controller on the internet and if there is any chance to connect it to a PC and check the details or re-program it. I would like it to be able to go around 70km/h.

Any ideas?

I have also thought about buying a new controller - better one to match it with my current set-up but i need your help in this. Any suggestions? And also do I have to change the screen/speedometer?

 

[fill]

You could look into the shunt mod but if your battery pack/bms cant supply the amps you demand.. if your lucky a fuse will blow, unlucky and your bms and perhaps battery cells could get dramatic. Or the controller itself may fail due to the increase in amps its handling, cables could overheat short etc..

Also consider how other road users will see you and your bike as it approaches will they expect 50 km/h + speeds or will they see a 'moped' and make judgements accordingly?? No one needs to hear "sorry i didnt see you" after the event!

 

[Vasilis69]

You could look into the shunt mod but if your battery pack/bms cant supply the amps you demand.. if your lucky a fuse will blow, unlucky and your bms and perhaps battery cells could get dramatic. Or the controller itself may fail due to the increase in amps its handling, cables could overheat short etc..

Also consider how other road users will see you and your bike as it approaches will they expect 50 km/h + speeds or will they see a 'moped' and make judgements accordingly?? No one needs to hear "sorry i didnt see you" after the event!

Thanks will look into this mod. However, i am looking for a safer solution, as i understand there is a high risk if you do that. Do you have any idea if i can connect to my controller a module so i can get data and/or tweak the settings? Or i need to buy a new one? If this is the case, are you familiar with any good brand/model?

You are right about the latter, however, it would be safer for me to move around 70km/h as this is the limit in some roads i am driving. I feel that with 50-55km/h is more dangerous. I am from Greece and generally drivers are not that careful, i am lucky that my horn is loud

 

[Chalo]

It takes at least twice as much power to go 70 km/h versus 55 km/h. So your motor, controller, battery, cables, and connections must all be able to handle twice your current power.

My advice in this situation is always the same: if you want to move like a motorcycle, use a motorcycle.

 

[ak136]

It takes at least twice as much power to go 70 km/h versus 55 km/h. So your motor, controller, battery, cables, and connections must all be able to handle twice your current power.

My advice in this situation is always the same: if you want to move like a motorcycle, use a motorcycle.

But "it's easy, it's just a cable in the controller"

 

[Vasilis69]

It takes at least twice as much power to go 70 km/h versus 55 km/h. So your motor, controller, battery, cables, and connections must all be able to handle twice your current power.

My advice in this situation is always the same: if you want to move like a motorcycle, use a motorcycle.

Well yeah, i am not saying you are wrong but i can see that the motor has more power to give, its just the controller that tells it stop - or at least - this is what i feel. Battery is quite good for what i need it, 72v - 52Ah. Its already upgraded and regarding cables/connections, i really cannot find anything different than some 5kw scooters that are in the market. Unless their quality is bad. I was hoping i could plug-in to a pc my own controller (but i dont know the way because i cannot find any pinout for my controller to buy a dongle - there is nothing on the internet for it actually) or at least buy another 3kw controller that supports this thing, to be able to tweak it. This is what i am asking.

As a car guy, i always like to tweak things and be able to find more "advanced" things in the equipment i have.

But "it's easy, it's just a cable in the controller"

Ι wish it was that easy like going from 25km/h to 55km/h xD

 

[Vasilis69]

bump!

Any advice on a new controller for support 3kw and above? Plus wiring/screen/switches-handles, if required?

 

[bananu7]

Battery is quite good for what i need it, 72v - 52Ah.

But can it supply 3kW?

 

[Vasilis69]

But can it supply 3kW?

Well, motor says it can produce 2.6kW (as per manufacturer) - i cannot find anything on the internet about my hub motor.
Battery, if needed, i can put one more.

 

[bananu7]

Well, so assuming your battery can't supply the required current, you'd need a new battery, a new controller, probably a new screen to go with it, and at that point, after all the mods, you'll likely start overheating the motor.

Alternatively you can try modding the controller for more current, and if you're lucky, it will give you a bit extra power. The downside of this approach is that if your mod fails, you risk failing any of the above components, including frying the battery if it's not protected properly (having intermittent power cutouts otherwise), frying the controller or overheating the motor.

If for some reason you manage to successfully raise the top speed, you'll end up with a frame, brakes and wheels that were never made to go at such speeds.

If you want a faster vehicle, it'd be far easier to just buy a faster one. If you want a modding project, start with something that at the very least can then be ridden safe at the speeds you want to ride at, like a conversion of an existing motorcycle (and while it sounds daunting, the effort required is more or less the same as replacing all the parts we mentioned on your electric scooter).

 

[E-HP]

If you’re sticking with the stock motor, then go to 96v.

 

[Zambam]

Photos of the battery?

 

[Vasilis69]

If you’re sticking with the stock motor, then go to 96v.

I am not going to change the motor. I do not feel like there is any point at the moment.
Just with the voltage it will be able to produce more speed? My controller/hub/screen says it can withstand 96v but i am not sure about the cables, etc. Maybe i will have to change the whole wiring loom.

Well, so assuming your battery can't supply the required current, you'd need a new battery, a new controller, probably a new screen to go with it, and at that point, after all the mods, you'll likely start overheating the motor.

Alternatively you can try modding the controller for more current, and if you're lucky, it will give you a bit extra power. The downside of this approach is that if your mod fails, you risk failing any of the above components, including frying the battery if it's not protected properly (having intermittent power cutouts otherwise), frying the controller or overheating the motor.

If for some reason you manage to successfully raise the top speed, you'll end up with a frame, brakes and wheels that were never made to go at such speeds.

If you want a faster vehicle, it'd be far easier to just buy a faster one. If you want a modding project, start with something that at the very least can then be ridden safe at the speeds you want to ride at, like a conversion of an existing motorcycle (and while it sounds daunting, the effort required is more or less the same as replacing all the parts we mentioned on your electric scooter).

Battery is ok for now i think. I am using the one i bought the scooter with which is 72v/20Ah (i have a spare one from a friend at 72v/52Ah but i have not used it yet) and the distance I do daily is max 15km. With max speed at 55km/h it lasts 2 days for sure (30km) - plus i leave it overnight on with the alarm, which consumes some battery as well. I haven't tried going any further without charging it, but potentially it could make another 10-15km like that.

To be honest, i do not want to mod my controller at all, since i cannot find any pinout/diagram for its connections and i do not have the time to do trial and error. I want to keep this as is and not toast it.

I was almost certain that with a new controller a new screen will be needed. Point is what controller/screen i could buy? I do not care if the controller is similar to my own but at least i need it to have a module, so i can connect to it (via pc/mob phone) and tweak it. Do you have any recommendations?

The same frame of my scooter & brakes are being used also for a 5kw scooter here in Greece, i've seen it. But i do not know the specs of motor hub/wheel/screen.

Photos of the battery?

Attached!

 

[Zambam]

Nice scooter! Very practical car replacement.

Is the battery under the seat? Is there space for another battery under the floor?

Increasing battery voltage (easy to say, difficult to do) will get you higher speed but things can go wrong in the process if not done right.

 

[bananu7]

I was almost certain that with a new controller a new screen will be needed. Point is what controller/screen i could buy? I do not care if the controller is similar to my own but at least i need it to have a module, so i can connect to it (via pc/mob phone) and tweak it. Do you have any recommendations?

In that case, I'd get any of the popular cheap controller/loom/screen kits - Votol (EM150 should be fine and they're very affordable), maybe some smaller Fardriver, or if you want to spend more but have more control then one of the pricer options like 3Shul (VESC), some of the smaller VESC-based units, proprietary Kelly or ASI BAC... there's many options.

Budget wise, it's hard to beat Siaecosys offerings (Votol and Fardriver straight from Aliexpress) in bang per buck. Their main issue is absolutely horrible software and documentation.

 

[Vasilis69]

Nice scooter! Very practical car replacement.

Is the battery under the seat? Is there space for another battery under the floor?

Increasing battery voltage (easy to say, difficult to do) will get you higher speed but things can go wrong in the process if not done right.

Actually, its pretty good for driving and moving around the city safely. To be honest, when i bought it i was not expecting it to be that good for the money i spent. The only thing that i want to change ASAP is the tires, i prefer to get something branded than the Chinese ones that it came with.

The battery is under the seat, next to it you can place one more identical battery and under it there is room for 2 more batteries or a bigger one. Its crazy what you can do with it.
It used to have also a luggage rack on the rear, so you can store your things there, but i removed it because it looks nicer without it! hehe

In that case, I'd get any of the popular cheap controller/loom/screen kits - Votol (EM150 should be fine and they're very affordable), maybe some smaller Fardriver, or if you want to spend more but have more control then one of the pricer options like 3Shul (VESC), some of the smaller VESC-based units, proprietary Kelly or ASI BAC... there's many options.

Budget wise, it's hard to beat Siaecosys offerings (Votol and Fardriver straight from Aliexpress) in bang per buck. Their main issue is absolutely horrible software and documentation.

Well i was also thinking about EM150 (Votol) plus its wiring/loom but i cannot find any screen that is surely compatible with. I could use your help one more time, if possible. The reason i was thinking about EM150 (and thanks for confirming this to me) is that it looks easy to connect to the controller and software seems easy & there are schematics/pinouts on the internet - at least if you know where to look plus its not very expensive like VESC.

 

[bananu7]

Well i was also thinking about EM150 (Votol) plus its wiring/loom but i cannot find any screen that is surely compatible with. I could use your help one more time, if possible. The reason i was thinking about EM150 (and thanks for confirming this to me) is that it looks easy to connect to the controller and software seems easy & there are schematics/pinouts on the internet - at least if you know where to look plus its not very expensive like VESC.

Well, I'm building a custom screen for mine, my 3D printer is cranking an enclosure for it as we speak, so that sums up my opinion about the screen options. They're compatible with the common DKD displays that come in siaecosys kits and talk through them via LIN bus: https://pl.aliexpress.com/item/1005...idDFG0uTv&utparam-url=scene:search|query_from:

Generally speaking most stuff Siaecosys sells should work with it.

 

[Vasilis69]

Well, I'm building a custom screen for mine, my 3D printer is cranking an enclosure for it as we speak, so that sums up my opinion about the screen options. They're compatible with the common DKD displays that come in siaecosys kits and talk through them via LIN bus: https://pl.aliexpress.com/item/1005002950313906.html?algo_pvid=719b7731-b1cc-477f-9ccf-9755911430b2&algo_exp_id=719b7731-b1cc-477f-9ccf-9755911430b2-15&pdp_ext_f={"order":"15","eval":"1"}&pdp_npi=4@dis!PLN!219.47!171.19!!!56.69!44.22!@2103835e17455069836934264e5fcb!12000022926340847!sea!PL!842365080!X&curPageLogUid=4SOidDFG0uTv&utparam-url=scene:search|query_from:

Generally speaking most stuff Siaecosys sells should work with it.

Perfect, i think i will go with the screen you sent me plus this controller, they are also from the same seller.
BUT i need to ask something, my old controller says Phase angle 120 degrees, the votol one says hall angle 60 degrees. So it cannot fit, right?

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005007972252293.html?spm=a2g0o.store_pc_allItems_or_groupList.0.0.a45a2a96h6e3bE&pdp_npi=4%40dis%21EUR%21%E2%82%AC%20174%2C64%21%E2%82%AC%20174%2C64%21%21%21193.64%21193.64%21%402103864c17455089964101553ebf79%2112000043093888819%21sh%21GR%216022540169%21X&_gl=1*ifavwm*_gcl_aw*R0NMLjE3NDU1MDU1NDEuQ2p3S0NBand3cWZBQmhCY0Vpd0FaSmpDM3FJUko3UXVvV2NKWGVub2U0dk14ZFRnc2ZVbF8wSmJmVEtkMjJacktsQi1XWXFyTnlNblp4b0NsbFVRQXZEX0J3RQ..*_gcl_dc*R0NMLjE3NDQwMTE3ODguQ2owS0NRanc3ODJfQmhEakFSSXNBQlR2X0pEb3VRRHFnQmhHX2wwVFBZblhneWxQbWkwWFVQSEM1UWpnc2FYZmREX0p2MUwtUWJtc1pmY2FBcUtERUFMd193Y0I.*_gcl_au*MTA5ODcyNzUyNy4xNzQzNjgzNDc5*_ga*MTYzNzU5MjM2MC4xNzMwNzE1MjE0*_ga_VED1YSGNC7*MTc0NTUwODg4My4xMC4xLjE3NDU1MDg5OTYuMzguMC4w

 

[E-HP]

Lift the wheel and run the motor full speed. That speed, less 15% or so will be the top speed the motor will spin at you current voltage regardless of how many watts you make available to it (absent field weakening). If it spins at around 80, then you might get there on 72v.

 

[Vasilis69]

Lift the wheel and run the motor full speed. That speed, less 15% or so will be the top speed the motor will spin at you current voltage regardless of how many watts you make available to it (absent field weakening). If it spins at around 80, then you might get there on 72v.

Well, it does not go more than 58km/h while it's lifted. But i feel it can go more but something(most probably controller) is cutting it off when it reaches 58

 

[E-HP]

If it spins 58 unloaded, then it makes sense that it goes 55 on the road. If it spins at 55 unloaded, then that would imply the controller is limiting speed (but it's not). You need higher voltage or a new motor.

Did you test both loaded and unloaded at the same battery voltages? Fully charge and test the top speed while riding, then fully charge and test the unloaded speed to see if you get the exact same speed for both. If unloaded is still higher, then you'll know what you need to do.

 

[Vasilis69]

If it spins 58 unloaded, then it makes sense that it goes 55 on the road. If it spins at 55 unloaded, then that would imply the controller is limiting speed (but it's not). You need higher voltage or a new motor.

Did you test both loaded and unloaded at the same battery voltages? Fully charge and test the top speed while riding, then fully charge and test the unloaded speed to see if you get the exact same speed for both. If unloaded is still higher, then you'll know what you need to do.

Tested with full battery (70-72v, saw that from the screen):

a) while driving goes max 55 km/h maybe 56 but no more.
b) While on stand (unloaded) it reaches max 58 km/h.

Unloaded is still higher but its only 3km/h. What could i do?

PS. My friend bought a similar scooter, with same battery/controller/motor hub/wheels/screen and while driving he gets up to 60km/h but on the stand (unloaded) he gets again 60km/h. Not sure if it has to do with connections? I cannot understand these controllers as i have no schematics.

 

[E-HP]

PS. My friend bought a similar scooter, with same battery/controller/motor hub/wheels/screen and while driving he gets up to 60km/h but on the stand (unloaded) he gets again 60km/h. Not sure if it has to do with connections? I cannot understand these controllers as i have no schematics.

So he did the same "bypass"? His is acting restricted.

+/- 3% is probably within their tolerances, and you were unlucky enough to have your motor or controller built by a little old Chinese lady at the end of her 18 hour shift. Maybe she added an extra turn or ran out of the right value resistor or something.
Does your scooter accelerate faster than his?
Maybe your speedo is off.

 

[Vasilis69]

So he did the same "bypass"? His is acting restricted.

+/- 3% is probably within their tolerances, and you were unlucky enough to have your motor or controller built by a little old Chinese lady at the end of her 18 hour shift. Maybe she added an extra turn or ran out of the right value resistor or something.
Does your scooter accelerate faster than his?
Maybe your speedo is off.

Actually, i did the bypass to him since we have identical controllers.
It is one black cable on the controller, which you disconnect it and can hit max speed. If you connect it again, it goes max up to 25 km/h
See the first photo below (i marked it in green colour).

I will check today how fast both scooters accelerate.
Moreover, i have noticed that i have some extra connectors behind me speedo/screen that are not connected anywhere.
1 plug with 3 wires & 1 plug with a green wire.

I think i need to put both scooters side by side and see exactly where each connection goes.

I have started to believe that i should take my controller out, disassemble it and see on its bottom the functions it has. Maybe i stand lucky and there is a speed/sport function and/or something to put a diagnostic plug on. However, since this will be a generic controller & i cannot find anything on the internet about it, i will not be that lucky.

 

[Vasilis69]

Well, i could not hold it anymore, so i took the initiative and got the controller out of the scooter for inspection.

a) Soldering generally is a piece of crap but i will try to fix it.
b) Seems that in 2-3 locations there was "cold" soldering
c) and in other locations seems like there was humidity - will clean it as well
d) Good thing now is that we have the pinout!
I want to study the pinout now, to see what other functions there are (if i can put a diagnostics on it or if there is a speed/sport button etc).
Problem is that i cannot find anything on the web, eg: What is 485B-Rx / 485A-TX / SIDEVCO? / ZDJC / SOC/ A / DCH / TA / PC14 / COMA / CR / TB
For sure i have cables coming from TB / COMA / TA / A / SL / GND (last 2 is the cable for the speed limit) But what the rest are?
e) I think i will also chance the 4 capacitors from 100v 330 μF to 100v 440μF - i already have them with me from other projects
f) i will try to search on the web the various codes on the board to see if i can come up with something tangible.

IF anyone has any idea, let me know